Revelation 9:1 - 11 Who are these locusts representing?

[Verily]

Evil spirits with metal breastplates?
Metal breastplates sound manmade to me.

Yeah you can make a literal iron breastplate. Metals can also be referencing other things, such as strength or unbendable obstinance, or something heavy upon somone, a hardened heart (not a breastplate of faith and love) for example.

Thy neck is an iron sinew, and brow brass

Isaiah 48:4 Because I knew that thou art obstinate, and thy neck is an iron sinew, and thy brow brass

Jerm 6:28 They are all grievous revolters, walking with slanders: they are brass and iron; they are all corrupters.

Jerm 28:14 For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; I have put a yoke of iron upon the neck of all these nations

Dan 2:42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

Dan 7:19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet

Rev 9:9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.

Or a breastplate of faith and love, verses of iron

1 Thes 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

 

[grafted branch]

Any thoughts on these fellows and don't forget to comment on what the 5 months means - it is repeated twice within these few verses. Thanks

I think the connection you’re looking for on the 5 months is found in Genesis 7:24.

Genesis 7:24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

150 days = five 30 day months. Personally I don’t think there is a connection between the flood and the locusts but if I remember correctly someone brought that up and tried to argue that point on another forum some time ago.

If you do see a connection here, maybe give us your thoughts on it. I’m always interested in looking at things from the perspective of others.

 

[Verily]

Drone swarms like this are driven by AI.
We could name him Abaddon like the AI in Halo.

Sound good to you?But like I said,these locusts may not be able to see someone with the holy Ghost.

Do you not understand that,?

So, AI is the actual Angel of the bottomless pit which we can give the pet name "Abaddon" .
And so the AI Angel of the bottonless pit who is king of iron plated locusts, uses its AI remote control
to take out those not sealed by the Holy Spirit. How could IT or anything of carnal nature perceive what is protected (sealed) and what is "not" (sealed) when being sealed by the Holy Spirit cannot see him

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Like, those NOT sealed have no holy Spirit, being UNmarked (lets say) by the Holy Spirit (whom they cannot see or perceive anyway) how can an AI tell who is who (in order to target, for example) without a visible mark.

Its an equal playing field between the two (sealed by God) or not sealed (by God) these both would have to be discerned and the world cannot receive the Spirit of truth because it SEETH him NOT.

These sorts of locusts can discern who does not have the seal of God in their foreheads

Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

For example, Jesus and Paul are sealed, but these are not and the evil spirit knows this

Acts 19:15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? And then Acts 19:16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded

Or like here, Jesus met with a man with evils spirits, and the immediately reccognized him

Mat 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

Likewise of the seventy Jesus gave power to

Luke 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.

Luke 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

Luke 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

So makes sense that a boundry for such as these is drawn as to who they are allowed to touch

Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Sealed and not sealed

Acts 19:15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

 

[tailgator]

So, AI is the actual Angel of the bottomless pit which we can give the pet name "Abaddon" .
And so the AI Angel of the bottonless pit who is king of iron plated locusts, uses its AI remote control
to take out those not sealed by the Holy Spirit. How could IT or anything of carnal nature perceive what is protected (sealed) and what is "not" (sealed) when being sealed by the Holy Spirit cannot see him

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Like, those NOT sealed have no holy Spirit, being UNmarked (lets say) by the Holy Spirit (whom they cannot see or perceive anyway) how can an AI tell who is who (in order to target, for example) without a visible mark.

Its an equal playing field between the two (sealed by God) or not sealed (by God) these both would have to be discerned and the world cannot receive the Spirit of truth because it SEETH him NOT.

These sorts of locusts can discern who does not have the seal of God in their foreheads

Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

For example, Jesus and Paul are sealed, but these are not and the evil spirit knows this

Acts 19:15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? And then Acts 19:16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded

Or like here, Jesus met with a man with evils spirits, and the immediately reccognized him

Mat 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

Likewise of the seventy Jesus gave power to

Luke 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.

Luke 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

Luke 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

So makes sense that a boundry for such as these is drawn as to who they are allowed to touch

Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Sealed and not sealed

Acts 19:15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

How can a person drink poison and not be hurt?
Litterally drink poison and not be bothered by it in the least?


Does poison know it can't hurt you but can hurt other people?How does poison distinguish between someone with the holy Ghost and someone who is without?

 

[CTK]

I think the connection you’re looking for on the 5 months is found in Genesis 7:24.

Genesis 7:24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

150 days = five 30 day months. Personally I don’t think there is a connection between the flood and the locusts but if I remember correctly someone brought that up and tried to argue that point on another forum some time ago.

If you do see a connection here, maybe give us your thoughts on it. I’m always interested in looking at things from the perspective of others.

Thanks and this is a tough set of verses to break down. However, this morning I think (yes, just think) it might be related to the period between the two harvests in the 7 feasts - the spring and the fall feasts. So, these are the final 5 months when the final harvest can be found and the little horn, with the new power given to him (symbolically) by Satan and his demons as they have been allowed to exit the abyss for the period of the last harvest, are interested in tormenting those of the earth that are not yet either sealed by God, they are not found to be either grass, trees or green things (these symbolically mean those that believe and have accepted, or in the case of "green things" might come to accept Him during this last harvest and thus, God will not allow them to be attacked. This is preceded by the 144000 which represent the Jews who have had their eyes unblinded by God and have / will go out into the world for the last 3.5 years preaching the Good News exactly as Paul did. This will result in the world seeing just how much the word of God has been corrupted over the past `1500 years by the little horn and just how much their false teachings have infultrated almost every organziation and peoples around the world. Thus, the little horn (locusts and all their followers) will go to extreme measures to keep their power and their religious system intaked. Their world is coming apart with the true teachings of the 144000. This is when God allows Satan and his group to empower the little horn at this time - it is their last chance to corrupt God's people. This will be a very extreme time in the world and this is most likely the time of tribulation when all stops are removed. I am now going backwards to determine if the first 4 trumpets have an association or relationship (symbolically) to the first 4 feast days.... and these last 3 trumpet warnings might speak to the last 3 feast days ....

But there is no doubt in my mind that Revelation is all symboic and the most important thing is to try and identify the symbols, patterns and relationships to those found in the Old Testament. There is absolutely no way one could possibly understand Revelation without understanding Daniel and it is not just the symbols of the 4 beasts in Daniel that one has to understand, in fact, they are the least things in Daniel that must be understood ... as I have been saying too many times, it is the approach in understanding Daniel that is critical and I can see how it is being applied in Revelation. But I have a long way to go - still focusing on the 5th trumpet.

 

[KUWN]

So, you are saying that this is not symbolic but literal?

For John, I would say that he saw demons that resembled locusts and had tails like scorpions. The 5 months are literally five months. So, I think that John described exactly what he saw and what they looked like.

 

[Verily]

How can a person drink poison and not be hurt?
Litterally drink poison and not be bothered by it in the least?

The tongue is full of deadly poison

James 3:8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

Not living waters

Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

The poison of asps is under their lips

Romans 3:13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips.

Paul was not hurt here either

Acts 28:3 And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand.

Acts 28:4 And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.

Acts 28:5 And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm

No harm there either

Does poison know it can't hurt you but can hurt other people?How does poison distinguish between someone with the holy Ghost and someone who is without?

Poison does not know anything.

Poison is administered. Whether it be administered by natural snakes or what is spiritually called a snake (such as men)

Spiritually called snakes and vipers

Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Whose tongues are full of deadly poison

Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Again,

Romans 3:13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips.

The presense of the Holy Spirit (or His absence) would be that which allows or disallows one to be touched by evil or affected in either way.

 

[CTK]

For John, I would say that he saw demons that resembled locusts and had tails like scorpions. The 5 months are literally five months. So, I think that John described exactly what he saw and what they looked like.

I agree with you... he saw exactly what God wanted him to see and record. However, He did not give John the interpretations of these symbols. God is leaving that to us to interpret, and since so much of Revelation can be found in the Old Testament - both the symbols and the approaches He uses to get His message across, we have to rely on His Word to identity them....these are not interpretations that most come up with by trying to match the selected verses to what we see in the news - EU, China, Turkey, Islam, nuclear weapons, literal armies of men ... they are found in the Scriptures and speak of the only war worth considering - the war for our salvation.

You will not find tanks, aircraft, nuclear weapons, China, Islam, Iran, the EU, etc., etc., in the book of Daniel and you will not find them in Revelation. In fact, if you go back to the book of Daniel in Chapter 2, you will find all the actors and kingdoms that will be revealed in God's plan of salvation (all the way through to Revelation) mentioned in that chapter - except one. And by this I am excluding actors that are indeed mentioned like Gabriel, Michael, the 4 generals, the inference to Titus and the destruction in 70 AD, Cyrus, Darius or even the inference to Alexander. They are in the past and gone... The ONLY remaining actor that is not mentioned in chapter 2 that continues until the time of the end is the little horn of Daniel 7 and 8.

Therefore, the actors in Revelation are this little horn / papacy, the Jews, the Christians, the church, and of course the mention of Satan and his cast of characters... and of course, the writer John. That is it so far... and I do not expect to see any new folks in the remaining chapters of Revelation - nope, no Muslims, EU, China, etc.,

 

[tailgator]

The tongue is full of deadly poison

James 3:8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

Not living waters

Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

The poison of asps is under their lips

Romans 3:13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips.

Paul was not hurt here either

Acts 28:3 And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand.

Acts 28:4 And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.

Acts 28:5 And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm

No harm there either

Poison does not know anything.

Poison is administered. Whether it be administered by natural snakes or what is spiritually called a snake (such as men)

Spiritually called snakes and vipers

Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Whose tongues are full of deadly poison

Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Again,

Romans 3:13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips.

The presense of the Holy Spirit (or His absence) would be that which allows or disallows one to be touched by evil or affected in either way.

I'm not talking about a tongue.

I'm talking about literal poison.
If you have the holy Ghost,you can drink deadly poison and it will not harm you.
Now,how does poison distinguish who it can hurt and who it can't?

 

[Marty fox]

The 5-month period of "locusts" tormenting people cannot be the same as that occurring in AD 70 when Titus came to Jerusalem and took the city after his 5-month siege. There is a problem with that interpretation, because the 5th trumpet judgment has TWO MORE WOES that follow after it (Rev. 9:12). At the end of the 5-month Roman siege in AD 70, the battle was over, and there would not have been time for two more woes after that.

The battle ends with the sixth trumpet right after the 5 months

 

[grafted branch]

Thanks and this is a tough set of verses to break down. However, this morning I think (yes, just think) it might be related to the period between the two harvests in the 7 feasts - the spring and the fall feasts. So, these are the final 5 months when the final harvest can be found and the little horn, with the new power given to him (symbolically) by Satan and his demons as they have been allowed to exit the abyss for the period of the last harvest, are interested in tormenting those of the earth that are not yet either sealed by God, they are not found to be either grass, trees or green things (these symbolically mean those that believe and have accepted, or in the case of "green things" might come to accept Him during this last harvest and thus, God will not allow them to be attacked. This is preceded by the 144000 which represent the Jews who have had their eyes unblinded by God and have / will go out into the world for the last 3.5 years preaching the Good News exactly as Paul did. This will result in the world seeing just how much the word of God has been corrupted over the past `1500 years by the little horn and just how much their false teachings have infultrated almost every organziation and peoples around the world. Thus, the little horn (locusts and all their followers) will go to extreme measures to keep their power and their religious system intaked. Their world is coming apart with the true teachings of the 144000. This is when God allows Satan and his group to empower the little horn at this time - it is their last chance to corrupt God's people. This will be a very extreme time in the world and this is most likely the time of tribulation when all stops are removed. I am now going backwards to determine if the first 4 trumpets have an association or relationship (symbolically) to the first 4 feast days.... and these last 3 trumpet warnings might speak to the last 3 feast days ....

But there is no doubt in my mind that Revelation is all symboic and the most important thing is to try and identify the symbols, patterns and relationships to those found in the Old Testament. There is absolutely no way one could possibly understand Revelation without understanding Daniel and it is not just the symbols of the 4 beasts in Daniel that one has to understand, in fact, they are the least things in Daniel that must be understood ... as I have been saying too many times, it is the approach in understanding Daniel that is critical and I can see how it is being applied in Revelation. But I have a long way to go - still focusing on the 5th trumpet.

Thanks for the update on what you’re thinking is on this.

You’ve brought up on several posts the point that it’s critical to understand Daniel, and in particular the approach that’s used to interpret Daniel before Revelation can be understood. No doubt Daniel needs to be understood but in Daniel 12:4 it has the statement “and knowledge shall be increased”.

What do you think about the book of Revelation being the knowledge that is increased? Meaning this, we can used the increased knowledge from Revelation as a way of narrowing down or eliminating certain views on Daniel that otherwise could be plausible.

 

[Marty fox]

I am fairly sure he wrote this at the time of Domitian and not Vespasian. Can you attempt to take the rest of Revelation 9:1-12 and put all of this together into a complete interpretation? Then, can you include that interpretation with the rest of the 4 trumpets so they match seamlessly, and then take all of them so they walk perfectly into the rest of Revelation?

I believe it was written during the reign of Nero the human vessel of the demonic sea beast

Chapter 9:1-12 is a symbolic description of appolloyn being released from the abyss allowed to bri the Roman army against Jerusalem

I have a posted 3 threads recently on my view of each chapter of revelation

 

[Verily]

I'm not talking about a tongue.

The scripture literally says, the tongue IS full of deadly poison

I'm talking about literal poison.

The tongue is literally full of it.

If you have the holy Ghost,you can drink deadly poison and it will not harm you.
Now,how does poison distinguish who it can hurt and who it can't?

I don't see how poison knows anything at all, its administered. Whether by the tongue, or a serpents bite and various other ways outside of what is represented by the scripture. But poison has no discernment, it cannot distinguish the "who's who" of anything, its just poison.

Are we done yet? Or should we go more pages on the answers you are not capable of receiving by the scriptures.

 

[KUWN]

However, He did not give John the interpretations of these symbols. God is leaving that to us to interpret

What is symbolic about demons? What is symbolic about 5 months? John just saw demons inflicting pain to man. I don't see anything symbolic in this passage. Yes there is symbolism in the Bible, but not near the amount of what someone who has a symbolic hermeneutic for the book of Revelation.

 

[CTK]

Thanks for the update on what you’re thinking is on this.

You’ve brought up on several posts the point that it’s critical to understand Daniel, and in particular the approach that’s used to interpret Daniel before Revelation can be understood. No doubt Daniel needs to be understood but in Daniel 12:4 it has the statement “and knowledge shall be increased”.

What do you think about the book of Revelation being the knowledge that is increased? Meaning this, we can used the increased knowledge from Revelation as a way of narrowing down or eliminating certain views on Daniel that otherwise could be plausible.

To be candid, I have not spent much time or consideration on that comment in Daniel. It is so vague. I don’t know if it speaks to the true end times, or 700 years after Daniel to the time of the cross. Perhaps since the book of Daniel is largely about the time from Babylon to the end of the 70 weeks of years prophecy and then tells us about the demise of pagan Rome and the coming to power of the little horn / papal Rome, that there is so much more to reveal after Daniel. I believe this is the case since Revelation begins where Daniel left us… after the cross began His church and this book will discuss His church, the little horn (horseman) the trumpets and the bowls should reflect the remainder of our time left … which I believe is not too far away! I don’t think we are at the 5th trumpet time period yet… that will be the start of total chaos and also, the Jews must have their eyes opened by God before the Trumpets warnings.

Iit is an interesting question and one would expect that an understanding of either knowing Daniel or Revelation would greatly assist understanding the other, but it does not work!!!! It is truly a one way street. The approaches, and methods God has designed in Daniel do or can be found to be present in Revelation but they would not be AND haven’t been found in Revelation at this time! So, again, if you are not looking for them, and no one has yet, one tends to interpret Revelation just as they have been doing for years and years- as a historical book that should mostly match up with our history books and when they don’t, it must mean they are end time events and then they should match up with the verses in Revelation- but once again, they continue to look for events in our news to match up.

Daniel speaks of the time from Babylon to largely the cross not end times.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Who is "we"? And why would you think I think you deny the plague of literal locusts in Egypt?

Me and True Christians who knowledges literal plagues of Egypt.

I do believe they have a spiritual significance for our understanding when making comparisons between what was and the differences put between them. Something literal can be spiritual, or rather literally spiritual, or spiritually called something, for example Sodom and Egypt where also our Lord was crucified.

And again, me and True Christians with the wisdom of Christ discern the vial plagues of Revelation as spiritual events. Not literal.

That which is spiritually called Sodom Egypt is where our Lord was crucified, which I do not regard as the nation of Egypt.

The great city mentioned in Revelation 11 refers to the congregation of Israel, rather than a physical city, Jersualem, in the Middle East. God is indicating that His New Testament congregation has "spiritually" become like Egypt or Babylon when they fall away from Him prior to the Second Coming. They were once a faithful representation of God's Kingdom on Earth, but they have now entered into apostasy. This is why God commands His chosen people to come out of her to avoid her plagues, as she has become akin to Egypt..

Although, not sure about what the sores represent

In short, the sores represent spiritual sickness or uncleanness. Allow me to explain what Luke 16 talked about the Rich man and Lazarus. The parble is a picture of the old Testamenet Israel, spiritually representing rich man because she once had spiritual riches from God while Lazarus, represented Gentile being outside the commonwealth of Israel.

Luke 16:20

• "And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,"

This word beggar [ptochos] is used thirty-four times in the New Testament, and is translated "poor" everywhere except here, and Galatians 4:9. Here we see that in stark contrast to this rich man, there is Lazarus who not-coincidentally, has come to the rich man's gate to receive a handout. He is not proud, but poor, begging that this man might be charitable to him as a sinner. We note that Christ says that Lazarus was full of sores, signifying that he was unclean, and in need of healing. The Gentiles were looked upon by Israel as common or unclean, and the Jews had no dealings with them, remember this? This is all the spiritual signification of the Gentiles being looked upon as spiritually sick, unclean, far off from God.

Being poor signifies the "poor in spirit" who hunger and thirst after righteousness, and ask alms of Christ in their humility.

Matthew 5:3

• "Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

It's a word picture of the humility of the true child of God. The poor are uneasy about themselves, knowing their sin. They thirst after righteousness and know their need. They recognize themselves as destitute, and not self sufficient, but dependent upon God. As contrasted with the rich or proud in spirit who look upon themselves with self respect (pride), and as the self sufficient, who depend on themselves. A contrast between the Israel of works, and the Israel of Grace. Between the Rich man, and Lazarus! Haven't you heard the story about the Gentile woman who begged?

Luke 16:21

• "And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores."

Again, this same spiritual signification that they wanted to be fed with that which was on Israel's table, namely, the bread of life in Christ. Jesus illustrated this exact same principle as a Gentile woman came to Him, and she 'begged' Him to heal her daughter by casting the devil out of her.

Matthew 15:23-28

• "But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
  
  
• But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
  
  
• Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
  
  
• But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
  
  
• And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
  
  
• Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour."

See? This is the same picture as in the parable of Lazarus! Israel, the rich man, and his position of riches, and the gentile, beggar Lazarus, who begs for but the crumbs off the table of Israel. Do you see the correlation? Note that Jesus equates the Children of the master, to Israel, and this gentile beggar, to a dog! Yet she is not puffed up, offended, but with humility declares of herself, True! But even dogs eat of the crumbs that fall from their masters table. This event is almost a mirror of the parable of Lazarus. Consider it again:

Luke 16:21

• "And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores."

The gentiles were considered as dogs or unclean in the Old Testament, and Israel was to have nothing to do with them, unless they become part of Israel. Remember, this was also the picture of the unclean animals that was let down three times (Read about Peter in Act 10:15], where God said call not thou common what God has cleansed, signifying that salvation was going to the Gentiles also!! The Gentiles were as dogs and swine and the Jews did not mix with them.

John 4:9

• "Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans."

True! Lazarus was among dogs signifying that he was a gentile, who had sores, was unclean or common, and was in need of being healed. He also begged to be fed from the crumbs which fall from Israel's table. The same thing Jesus illustrated of the Gentile in Matthew 15:23-28. These things are not coincidence, they are God breathed, if you receive it! In this we are seeing the connection God has established between the Rich man and Israel, and the Poor man and the Gentiles.

This parable is a Word picture of the judgment of Old Testament Israel, fallen, cast out of the Kingdom because they trusted in their riches, and New Testament Israel made up of Gentiles and jews coming from north, south, east and west, to sit in Abraham's bosom. For example, Israel was first, and she shall be last. To the Jew first, but also to the Gentile.

Luke 13:28-30

• "There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
  
  
• And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.
  
  
• And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last."

Gentiles shall come into the Kingdom, those poor in spirit who eat of the crumbs of the masters table, after the Children have eaten. Many of Israel will find themselves in hell, because they trust in their own righteousness, and many Gentiles will find themselves in Heaven, because they trust in the righteousness of Christ. Where we all will end up depends upon if we are rich, or poor. And this dependence has nothing to do with literal riches. It has to do with if we have the gold tried in the fire, or are rich in the ways of the world.

Get it so far?

(Now go to next post regarding sores in Revelation 16)

 

[TribulationSigns]

Rev 16:10-11

• "And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
• And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

This is because "they were sent strong delusion" from God "so that" they would believe a lie, blaspheming God. That is their judgment. In other words, God sent it (strong delusion, a spirit of deception that they would be blinded and damned). That "is" their judgment; that is this fire of God upon them so that it burns them, and they are not even aware of their burning. God Himself has brought their fall upon them, where what was once a beautiful vineyard is now a desolated field. Once a great city but now a home of the devils. God loosed Satan because of their sin. God sent this plague of sores upon these unfaithful. God sent this energy of delusion that they would fall for the lie, speak evil or blasphemy and be damned. This is all "His" judgment upon the unrighteous who brought abominations into His house. It's just as God blinded the eyes of Israel that they would not see as judgment for their sins.

Romans 11:7-8

• "What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
• (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; ) unto this day."

It's the same principle in Revelation as here being spoken of in the New Testament Israel. God blinded them so they would not see and be damned because of their abominations. Same with the end-time congregation. God opens up the pit, looses Satan, sending these plagues upon them because they would not be faithful to His word. They reject the testimony of truth (by the Two Witnesses' testimony) and His judgment is that they deserve to believe a lie and be damned. And unlike so many professing Christians today, God does not look upon it as misguided mistakes, nor does He refuse to hold them blameless for it. When professing Christians reject the truth, it's not simply being misguided, it's the will of man, it's a "serious" spirit problem. God's spirit is called the Spirit of Truth for a reason. The unfaithful receive these plagues of sores for a reason, and the reason is that they had no love of truth and so refused to receive it. God looses Satan, God sends these plagues, God damns His people, the ones who are not sealed by Him, Revelation 9! When they see this judgment of these plagues upon the church it should make anyone take notice, repent and turn away from their sins that brought this judgment, but they refuse to repent of their deeds!! This is why they are under this plague wherein Satan (being loosed) deceives them, they fall under God's judgment of this strong delusion that in their pains and sores, they refuse to repent of their deeds. Indeed, they can't, being under sure judgment of God. That's what Revelation 16:11 speaks of. That is how and why they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores and wouldn't repent of their deeds. They have been judged and are blinded by God from seeing truth. It is because of this strong delusion (this plague) God sent upon them because of their refusal to forsake their sins. As also delineated in 2nd Thessalonian's comment upon the loosing of Satan:

2nd Thessalonians 2:9-12

• "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
• And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
• And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
• That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

Why would God do this? God answers that it was so they would be damned, since they would not receive the truth in love. This strong delusion, this spirit or energy of deception, this plague of spiritual sores upon them is sent by God because they had forsaken orthodoxy, the delivered truth of the gospel. In this deception sent of God they blasphemed Him because of these pains and these sores, and it being God's judgment, they repented not of their works or deeds. Have you ever tried to convince those deluded in false gospels of the truth? It's like trying to wrestle an alligator, who will twist and turn you every which way but loose. It's because of this damning spirit sent by God as judgment "because" they refused to receive the truth in the love of the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of Truth. Selah!

So, in answer to some people who asked me a question often of how the professed Christians blaspheme God if it was His judgment, it is because He sent them this as judgment, this strong delusion that they would believe a lie and blasphemy and be damned. Their judgment for their abominations and sin of refusing to believe the truth was their fall where God Himself blinds them that they will not see the lies and blasphemy. Again, just as God did to His Old Testament congregation Israel as an example! Perfectly righteous judgment for their rebellion. The sores illustrate something not well, something infected or unclean! You will notice the signs of this when something is really wrong within the church today - For example, for allowing homosexuals to be pastor or be wed, women pastor, prosperity gospel, feel good gospel, no judgment gospel, wordly entertainment that includes Santa Claus, SuperBowl, etc.

Isaiah 1:6-11

• "From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.
• Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers.
• And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city.
• Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
• Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
• To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats."

Reelation 11:7-10

• "And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
• And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
• And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
• And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth."

When the church becomes as Sodom and Egypt, God sends His judgment, and the true witnesses are killed, their testimony silenced there. Then the church appears before God with empty prayers, hollow offerings, and vain oblations, and God has no delight in them. They shall come under judgment exactly as Old Testament Israel did for her abominations. They were meant as examples for us, but the church is not learning from the example, confirming once again that there is nothing new under the sun.

Now, how will God send the plague of sore upon His Unfaithful church? THIS!

Rev 9:2-6

• And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
• And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
• And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
• And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
• And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

 

[Verily]

Me and True Christians who knowledges literal plagues of Egypt.

Okay, so you are representing all christians in your posts, I was sure who the "we" was.

And again, me and True Christians with the wisdom of Christ discern the vial plagues of Revelation as spiritual events. Not literal.

Thanks for clarifying, so "we" are those who see things spiritually in the same way as you do.

The great city mentioned in Revelation 11 refers to the congregation of Israel, rather than a physical city, Jersualem, in the Middle East. God is indicating that His New Testament congregation has "spiritually" become like Egypt or Babylon when they fall away from Him prior to the Second Coming. They were once a faithful representation of God's Kingdom on Earth, but they have now entered into apostasy. This is why God commands His chosen people to come out of her to avoid her plagues, as she has become akin to Egypt..


In short, the sores represent spiritual sickness or uncleanness. Allow me to explain what Luke 16 talked about the Rich man and Lazarus. The parble is a picture of the old Testamenet Israel, spiritually representing rich man because she once had spiritual riches from God while Lazarus, represented Gentile being outside the commonwealth of Israel.

Luke 16:20

• "And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,"

This word beggar [ptochos] is used thirty-four times in the New Testament, and is translated "poor" everywhere except here, and Galatians 4:9. Here we see that in stark contrast to this rich man, there is Lazarus who not-coincidentally, has come to the rich man's gate to receive a handout. He is not proud, but poor, begging that this man might be charitable to him as a sinner. We note that Christ says that Lazarus was full of sores, signifying that he was unclean, and in need of healing. The Gentiles were looked upon by Israel as common or unclean, and the Jews had no dealings with them, remember this? This is all the spiritual signification of the Gentiles being looked upon as spiritually sick, unclean, far off from God.

Being poor signifies the "poor in spirit" who hunger and thirst after righteousness, and ask alms of Christ in their humility.

Matthew 5:3

• "Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

It's a word picture of the humility of the true child of God. The poor are uneasy about themselves, knowing their sin. They thirst after righteousness and know their need. They recognize themselves as destitute, and not self sufficient, but dependent upon God. As contrasted with the rich or proud in spirit who look upon themselves with self respect (pride), and as the self sufficient, who depend on themselves. A contrast between the Israel of works, and the Israel of Grace. Between the Rich man, and Lazarus! Haven't you heard the story about the Gentile woman who begged?

Luke 16:21

• "And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores."

Again, this same spiritual signification that they wanted to be fed with that which was on Israel's table, namely, the bread of life in Christ. Jesus illustrated this exact same principle as a Gentile woman came to Him, and she 'begged' Him to heal her daughter by casting the devil out of her.

Matthew 15:23-28

• "But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
  
  
• But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
  
  
• Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
  
  
• But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
  
  
• And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
  
  
• Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour."

See? This is the same picture as in the parable of Lazarus! Israel, the rich man, and his position of riches, and the gentile, beggar Lazarus, who begs for but the crumbs off the table of Israel. Do you see the correlation? Note that Jesus equates the Children of the master, to Israel, and this gentile beggar, to a dog! Yet she is not puffed up, offended, but with humility declares of herself, True! But even dogs eat of the crumbs that fall from their masters table. This event is almost a mirror of the parable of Lazarus. Consider it again:

Luke 16:21

• "And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores."

The gentiles were considered as dogs or unclean in the Old Testament, and Israel was to have nothing to do with them, unless they become part of Israel. Remember, this was also the picture of the unclean animals that was let down three times (Read about Peter in Act 10:15], where God said call not thou common what God has cleansed, signifying that salvation was going to the Gentiles also!! The Gentiles were as dogs and swine and the Jews did not mix with them.

John 4:9

• "Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans."

True! Lazarus was among dogs signifying that he was a gentile, who had sores, was unclean or common, and was in need of being healed. He also begged to be fed from the crumbs which fall from Israel's table. The same thing Jesus illustrated of the Gentile in Matthew 15:23-28. These things are not coincidence, they are God breathed, if you receive it! In this we are seeing the connection God has established between the Rich man and Israel, and the Poor man and the Gentiles.

This parable is a Word picture of the judgment of Old Testament Israel, fallen, cast out of the Kingdom because they trusted in their riches, and New Testament Israel made up of Gentiles and jews coming from north, south, east and west, to sit in Abraham's bosom. For example, Israel was first, and she shall be last. To the Jew first, but also to the Gentile.

Luke 13:28-30

• "There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
  
  
• And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.
  
  
• And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last."

Gentiles shall come into the Kingdom, those poor in spirit who eat of the crumbs of the masters table, after the Children have eaten. Many of Israel will find themselves in hell, because they trust in their own righteousness, and many Gentiles will find themselves in Heaven, because they trust in the righteousness of Christ. Where we all will end up depends upon if we are rich, or poor. And this dependence has nothing to do with literal riches. It has to do with if we have the gold tried in the fire, or are rich in the ways of the world.

Get it so far?

(Now go to next post regarding sores in Revelation 16)

We might compare differently here and there but I can see you are very passionate on how true christians are to see these things in the very same fashion as yourself. Many who believe differently from all others feel the same way, they they too are the true christians so I do understand.

I will read your post on sores

 

[Verily]

Rev 16:10-11

• "And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
• And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

This is because "they were sent strong delusion" from God "so that" they would believe a lie, blaspheming God. That is their judgment. In other words, God sent it (strong delusion, a spirit of deception that they would be blinded and damned). That "is" their judgment; that is this fire of God upon them so that it burns them, and they are not even aware of their burning. God Himself has brought their fall upon them, where what was once a beautiful vineyard is now a desolated field. Once a great city but now a home of the devils. God loosed Satan because of their sin. God sent this plague of sores upon these unfaithful. God sent this energy of delusion that they would fall for the lie, speak evil or blasphemy and be damned. This is all "His" judgment upon the unrighteous who brought abominations into His house. It's just as God blinded the eyes of Israel that they would not see as judgment for their sins.

Romans 11:7-8

• "What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
• (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; ) unto this day."

It's the same principle in Revelation as here being spoken of in the New Testament Israel. God blinded them so they would not see and be damned because of their abominations. Same with the end-time congregation. God opens up the pit, looses Satan, sending these plagues upon them because they would not be faithful to His word. They reject the testimony of truth (by the Two Witnesses' testimony) and His judgment is that they deserve to believe a lie and be damned. And unlike so many professing Christians today, God does not look upon it as misguided mistakes, nor does He refuse to hold them blameless for it. When professing Christians reject the truth, it's not simply being misguided, it's the will of man, it's a "serious" spirit problem. God's spirit is called the Spirit of Truth for a reason. The unfaithful receive these plagues of sores for a reason, and the reason is that they had no love of truth and so refused to receive it. God looses Satan, God sends these plagues, God damns His people, the ones who are not sealed by Him, Revelation 9! When they see this judgment of these plagues upon the church it should make anyone take notice, repent and turn away from their sins that brought this judgment, but they refuse to repent of their deeds!! This is why they are under this plague wherein Satan (being loosed) deceives them, they fall under God's judgment of this strong delusion that in their pains and sores, they refuse to repent of their deeds. Indeed, they can't, being under sure judgment of God. That's what Revelation 16:11 speaks of. That is how and why they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores and wouldn't repent of their deeds. They have been judged and are blinded by God from seeing truth. It is because of this strong delusion (this plague) God sent upon them because of their refusal to forsake their sins. As also delineated in 2nd Thessalonian's comment upon the loosing of Satan:

2nd Thessalonians 2:9-12

• "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
• And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
• And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
• That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

Why would God do this? God answers that it was so they would be damned, since they would not receive the truth in love. This strong delusion, this spirit or energy of deception, this plague of spiritual sores upon them is sent by God because they had forsaken orthodoxy, the delivered truth of the gospel. In this deception sent of God they blasphemed Him because of these pains and these sores, and it being God's judgment, they repented not of their works or deeds. Have you ever tried to convince those deluded in false gospels of the truth? It's like trying to wrestle an alligator, who will twist and turn you every which way but loose. It's because of this damning spirit sent by God as judgment "because" they refused to receive the truth in the love of the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of Truth. Selah!

So, in answer to some people who asked me a question often of how the professed Christians blaspheme God if it was His judgment, it is because He sent them this as judgment, this strong delusion that they would believe a lie and blasphemy and be damned. Their judgment for their abominations and sin of refusing to believe the truth was their fall where God Himself blinds them that they will not see the lies and blasphemy. Again, just as God did to His Old Testament congregation Israel as an example! Perfectly righteous judgment for their rebellion. The sores illustrate something not well, something infected or unclean! You will notice the signs of this when something is really wrong within the church today - For example, for allowing homosexuals to be pastor or be wed, women pastor, prosperity gospel, feel good gospel, no judgment gospel, wordly entertainment that includes Santa Claus, SuperBowl, etc.

Isaiah 1:6-11

• "From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.
• Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers.
• And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city.
• Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
• Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
• To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats."

Reelation 11:7-10

• "And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
• And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
• And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
• And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth."

When the church becomes as Sodom and Egypt, God sends His judgment, and the true witnesses are killed, their testimony silenced there. Then the church appears before God with empty prayers, hollow offerings, and vain oblations, and God has no delight in them. They shall come under judgment exactly as Old Testament Israel did for her abominations. They were meant as examples for us, but the church is not learning from the example, confirming once again that there is nothing new under the sun.

Now, how will God send the plague of sore upon His Unfaithful church? THIS!

Rev 9:2-6

• And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
• And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
• And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
• And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
• And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Thank you, at least I know where you are coming from on these things

 

[tailgator]

The scripture literally says, the tongue IS full of deadly poison

The tongue is literally full of it.


I don't see how poison knows anything at all, its administered. Whether by the tongue, or a serpents bite and various other ways outside of what is represented by the scripture. But poison has no discernment, it cannot distinguish the "who's who" of anything, its just poison.

Are we done yet? Or should we go more pages on the answers you are not capable of receiving by the scriptures.

So you drink tongue?

I'm talking about drinking poison and your talking about drinking tongue.

I don't know why I ask you anything.