The two witnessss

[tailgator]

The two witnesses rule over many till the king of the south attacks and kills them at the time of the end.
Revelation is not the only book about the beast,the false prophet and the time of the end.


Daniel 11
39 He will attack the mightiest fortresses with the help of a foreign god and will greatly honor those who acknowledge him. He will make them rulers over many people and will distribute the land at a price.[d]

40 “At the time of the end the king of the South will engage him in battle, and the king of the North will storm out against him with chariots and cavalry and a great fleet of ships. He will invade many countries and sweep through them like a flood.

 

[tailgator]

3.5 days later they stand on their feet.

Daniel 12
And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame.

 

[tailgator]

The two witnesses arrive in Israel 42 months before the time of the end.Upon their arrival,the saints are persecuted throughout Israel and this persecution continues 42 months till the time of the end in verse 40.

Like I said,Revelation is not the only book about the beast,false prophet and the time of the end.These things are also found in the Olivet discourse.

Daniel 11:31-35
31 “His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.
32 He will flatter and win over those who have violated the covenant. But the people who know their God will be strong and will resist him.
33 Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.
34 During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere.
35 And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.

 

[tailgator]

The Olivet discourse confirms the same set of events as revelation and Daniel.

First the two witnesses arrive in Israel,as in Daniel 11:31.

Luke 21
8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.


Then the persecution begins in Israel as in Daniel 11:33-35.

Luke 21
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.

14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:

15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.

17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.



Then nation rises against nation at the time of the end as in Daniel 11:40


Luke 21
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.




Revelation ,Daniel and the Olivet discourse all agree and confirm end time events.To better understand ,it's best to run to and fro through scripture comparing and confirming .

Daniel 12
4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

 

[tailgator]

Now,it is said by many that God sends the two witnesses to torment humans.The problem with this theory is their Lord is Jesus Christ,and Jesus Christ does not send his servants to torment mankind.

Revelation 11:8 confirms Jesus Christ our Lord is the Lord of the two witnesses.The two witnesses are what we call christians .

Revelation. 12:8
8 Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified.


So now you need to consider and ask yourselves,are the two witnesses keeping the commandments of their Lord Jesus Christ ?


Mathew ,7:12
So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.


Do the two witnesses do unto others as they would have done unto themselves?Do they love their enemies and turn the other cheek when they are smitten as commanded by their Lord Jesus Christ?


Revelation 11:10
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

 

[tailgator]

Not everyone who is resurected in Daniel 12:2 has done good.Not everyone has done as their Lord commands.

Daniel.12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame.

 

[tailgator]

Now in the Olivet discourse,Jesus teaches that he has servants who are not expecting their Lord Jesus to come at the time of his coming .His servants eat and drink with the drunken and smite their fellow servants.


Mathew 24:48-51
48 But what if the servant is evil and thinks, ‘My master won’t be back for a while,’
49 and he begins beating the other servants, partying, and getting drunk?
50 The master will return unannounced and unexpected,
51 and he will cut the servant to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.




Are these servants of our Lord Jesus doing as their Lord commands them?
Are they doing unto others as they would have done unto themselves?

 

[FaithWillDo]

The two witnesses rule over many till the king of the south attacks and kills them at the time of the end.
Revelation is not the only book about the beast,the false prophet and the time of the end.


Daniel 11
39 He will attack the mightiest fortresses with the help of a foreign god and will greatly honor those who acknowledge him. He will make them rulers over many people and will distribute the land at a price.[d]

40 “At the time of the end the king of the South will engage him in battle, and the king of the North will storm out against him with chariots and cavalry and a great fleet of ships. He will invade many countries and sweep through them like a flood.

Dear tailgator,
The Two Witnesses' prophecy is a spiritual teaching on the pathway to salvation that the Elect will "keep" in order to reach their moment of conversion. It is not a teaching about a one-time future event as you are contending.

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for THE TIME IS AT HAND.

Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, SEAL NOT the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for THE TIME IS AT HAND.

At the time John received the vision, all the prophecies were already being fulfilled in the lives of the Elect who were living at that time. And those same prophecies have continued to be fulfilled throughout this age in the lives of all the other Elect. John says the time for their fulfillment is at hand (presently happening) and that the prophecies are not sealed.

Concerning the Two Witnesses, they represent every Elect person since the time John received the vision. When the two witnesses are killed by Satan, it means that the Elect person has lost their salvation and has become apostate. When they rise to their feet, it represents them being restored and born again by receiving the Latter Rain of the Spirit. When they ascend up to heaven, it is the same event that Mat 24:29-31 describes.

Verses 15-19 describes the judgment that follows the Latter Rain of the Spirit. It is this judgment that removes and destroys the chaff (spirit of anti-Christ & Great Harlot) within the Elect person. It is the same judgment described in Mat 24:37-41 and the same one described in Rev 19:11-21.

Conversion requires an Elect person to receive both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit, followed by judgment (Day of the Lord/Thousand Year Reign). The time an Elect person spends in between receiving the Early and Latter Rains is Elijah's 3 1/2 years of drought and the last 3 1/2 years of Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy (time, times & a half, 1260 days and 42 months). It is during this time of drought that the Elect person will be killed (loss of salvation) by Satan and become apostate. They will remain in this apostate condition for "3 1/2 days" (represents their time as an apostate believer/man of sin).

All the Elect will keep the prophecy of the Two Witnesses. They cannot avoid it. For that reason, Christ says that during the Elect person's conversion process, they will "see" the Abomination of Desolation.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

This moment occurs just after Christ has given an Elect person the Latter Rain of the Spirit which has healed their spiritual blindness. It is at this time that the Elect believer will come out from Satan's deceptions, knowing that they had been deceived and following Satan instead of the true Christ. It is a very humbling experience.

Joe

 

[Verily]

Fear hath torment too, the Lord could send his fear before his prophets.

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

If any man will hurt them it says

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies:

Fire out of their mouths, is what?

Jerm 23:29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD

Jerm 5:14 Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.

"Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm"/hurt... but of any man will do so it says

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

The manner in which one is killed/or slain by them is shown in both

Hosea 6:5 Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth: and thy judgments are as the light that goeth forth.

As with Jesus

John 7:30 Then they sought to take him: but no man laid hands on him, because his hour was not yet come.

And when his hour was come to die, Jesus said,

John 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

And when Jesus finished his testimony, these too finish their testimony and are killed

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

The world makes merry, and refuses them burial (unlike their Lord) in the place where he crucified

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

And just as Jesus said to them concerning his own death

John 16:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice...

When these die it likewise says,

Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another

And they are raised to life

Rev 11:11 And after three and a half days the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet. ; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

And just as with the Lord, where "his friends" beheld when he ascended to heaven in a cloud Acts 1:9

These too ascend to heaven while on the contrary, "their enemies" behold

Rev 11: 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Rev 11:6a These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy...

James 5:17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain:
and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.

These also have power over waters to turn them to blood Rev 11:6b

Exodus 7:17 Thus saith the LORD, In this thou shalt know that I am the LORD: behold, I will smite with the rod that is in mine hand upon the waters which are in the river, and they shall be turned to blood.

And these also have the power "to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will."Rev 11:6c

Here is also smiting the earth after Elijah but with a curse

Mal 4:6 And he (Elijah) shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and "smite the earth with a curse."

Plagues as shown in Moses before Pharaoh

Exodus 9:14 For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth.

Seven times more plagues

Leviticus 7:21 And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins.

The seven last plagues

Rev 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

Of Elisha (not Elijah) but of him that followed after) it says, little children out of the city, and mocked him

2 Kings 2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

2 Ch 36: 16 But they mocked the messengers of God, and despised his words, and misused his prophets, until the wrath of the LORD arose against his people, till there was no remedy.

Forty two (the number of children there) is an interesting number to find there.

 

[tailgator]

Fire out of their mouths, is what?

A military command.
The same command used in the man of sins armed forces that arrive in Israel 42 months before the time of the end.

Fire commands can be used to attack mighty fortresses or smite the earth with fire coming down out of heaven.

For 42 months the man of sins armed forces in Israel will use fire commands to kill their enemies as often as the will.


Daniel 11:39
He will attack the mightiest fortresses with the help of a foreign god and will greatly honor those who acknowledge him. He will make them rulers over many people and will distribute the land at a price.


Revelation 11
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

FIRE COMMANDS​

B-73. Fire commands are oral orders issued by leaders to focus and distribute fires as required achieving decisive effects against the enemy. They allow leaders to rapidly and concisely articulate their firing instructions using a standard format (Refer to TC 3-20.31-4 for more information)

 

[Verily]

The two witnesses of Rev. 11:3-12 WERE the two anointed ones shown in Zech. 4:12-14.

I have

Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

From here

Zech 4:14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

Translation issue?

 

[Verily]

A military command.

I do know how you see it, we've been down this discussion before on another forum.

 

[tailgator]

Revelation 11
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.


Cloud seeding is a type of weather modification that aims to change the amount or type of precipitation, mitigate hail or disperse fog. The usual objective is to increase rain or snow, either for its own sake or to prevent precipitation from occurring in days afterward.

Cloud seeding - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Earburner]

I do know how you see it, we've been down this discussion before on another forum.

The two witnesses of Rev. 11:3-12 WERE the two anointed ones shown in Zech. 4:12-14.

You have done a very fine job in your scripture comparisons in post #9. Unfortunately, you also have drawn a wrong conclusion.
I might suggest that you take on the conclusion that I have reached, which is in the word I used: "WERE" for your clue.
Do you now see who they were?

 

[Verily]

The two witnesses of Rev. 11:3-12 WERE the two anointed ones shown in Zech. 4:12-14.

You have done a very fine job in your scripture comparisons. Unfortunately, you also have drawn a wrong conclusion.
I might suggest that you take on the conclusion that I have reached, which is in the word I used: "WERE" for your clue.
Do you now see who they were?

I dont really have a conclusion I just compare where similar things can be compared.

So you believe the two witnesses in Revelation are past only

 

[Earburner]

I dont really have a conclusion I just compare where similar things can be compared.

So you believe the two witnesses in Revelation are past only

Yes. Though this concept knocks the stuffing out of church-ianty, it is scripturally sound in the context of both the OT and NT scriptures.

Here are two clues that should help you to discover who the two witnesses really were.
#1 Zech. 4
[12] And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
Mat. 25
[3] They that were foolish took their lamps*, and took no oil with them:
(Oil is symbolic of the Holy Spirit)
[4] But the wise took oil IN their  VESSELS with their lamps*.
2 Cor. 4
[7] But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
*Note: Psalm 119
[105] Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

#2 Luke 1
[15] For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be FILLED with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Mat. 1
[20] But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is CONCEIVED in her is of the Holy Ghost.

 

[David in NJ]

Now,it is said by many that God sends the two witnesses to torment humans.The problem with this theory is their Lord is Jesus Christ,and Jesus Christ does not send his servants to torment mankind.

Revelation 11:8 confirms Jesus Christ our Lord is the Lord of the two witnesses.The two witnesses are what we call christians .

Revelation. 12:8
8 Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified.


So now you need to consider and ask yourselves,are the two witnesses keeping the commandments of their Lord Jesus Christ ?


Mathew ,7:12
So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.


Do the two witnesses do unto others as they would have done unto themselves?Do they love their enemies and turn the other cheek when they are smitten as commanded by their Lord Jesus Christ?


Revelation 11:10
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

Cannot the "two witnesses" be two faithful OT Prophets from the past???

 

[tailgator]

Cannot the "two witnesses" be two faithful OT Prophets from the past???

If they were,Jerusalem would have killed them.Theres a reason Jerusalem does not kill these two prophets.Jerusalem likes these two prophets .

Mathew 23
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.


Revelation 18:24
And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.




It's not Babylon who kills these two witnesses.Its Babylons enemies that kill them.That speaks volumes.

 

[Verily]

Yes. Though this concept knocks the stuffing out of church-ianty, it is scripturally sound in the context of both the OT and NT scriptures.

Here are two clues that should help you to discover who the two witnesses really were.
#1 Zech. 4
[12] And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
Mat. 25
[3] They that were foolish took their lamps*, and took no oil with them:
[4] But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps*.

*Note: Psalm 119
[105] Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

#2 Luke 1
[15] For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be FILLED with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Mat. 1
[20] But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is CONCEIVED in her is of the Holy Ghost.

I am not seeing how the five virgins which took oil in their vessel equates to the two witnesses that get killed in Rev. I do compare things a little differently than you concerning them.

 

[ScottA]

The two witnesses rule over many till the king of the south attacks and kills them at the time of the end.
Revelation is not the only book about the beast,the false prophet and the time of the end.


Daniel 11
39 He will attack the mightiest fortresses with the help of a foreign god and will greatly honor those who acknowledge him. He will make them rulers over many people and will distribute the land at a price.[d]

40 “At the time of the end the king of the South will engage him in battle, and the king of the North will storm out against him with chariots and cavalry and a great fleet of ships. He will invade many countries and sweep through them like a flood.

You are preaching a doctrine that was allowed for a time, until the times of the gentiles are fulfilled. But it is a false doctrine propagated by foretold false teachers entering into the church and spreading a "lie" causing strong delusion and great apostacy. Have you not read of it?