ONCE….ONCE….(OSAS)….ONCE!!!

[MatthewG]

Salvation does not take away one's free will....men choose to obey to be saved and they can choose to turn away from God in disobedience losing the promise of salvation. This is why there are numerous admonishments, warnings to Christians about falling away, becoming an apostate. This is why salvation is accompanied with conditions...

"Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:" 2 Pet 1:10

"Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." James 5:19-20

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch...,; Jn 15:6


God never made the promise of salvation unconditional.....this promise is not given unconditionally nor kept unconditionally.

Hello @Ernest T. Bass,

It’s just up to people to decide for themselves. I agree with you concerning being saved is a condition which is reacted upon within the heart to look and seek the Father in heaven and to worship him in spirit and in truth. He rewards those who do so. There is and always be a contingent strain in and through the Christian culture concerning the man-made doctrine which concerns the man-made phrase “once saved, always saved.” It distorts the reality of what is founded within the context of the Bible and my hatred is towards the doctrine and not the people who hold it up as though it was Moses holding the stone tablets. People have to discern and the truth is people like to hear what they want more than what is the truth. What hangs in the balance one may ask? Rewards of those who sought after Yahavah in spirit and in truth, and those who had peddled a false narrative and couldn’t even love properly even though they had “faith.” I can’t even love properly unless I abide in Christ and it’s Jesus in and through me that does the work; never myself. However people rely on themselves to get what is needed to be done all while at the same time they mock what Yahavah has laid out for people to see and understand if they so sought it to be made free of the religious bondages of man.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I don’t make the argument men lose their freewill.

Receiving Gods Gift of Salvation IS one having exercised their freewill….

....turning from God in disobedience becoming lost is men exercising their free will.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Hello @Ernest T. Bass,

It’s just up to people to decide for themselves. I agree with you concerning being saved is a condition which is reacted upon within the heart to look and seek the Father in heaven and to worship him in spirit and in truth. He rewards those who do so. There is and always be a contingent strain in and through the Christian culture concerning the man-made doctrine which concerns the man-made phrase “once saved, always saved.” It distorts the reality of what is founded within the context of the Bible and my hatred is towards the doctrine and not the people who hold it up as though it was Moses holding the stone tablets. People have to discern and the truth is people like to hear what they want more than what is the truth. What hangs in the balance one may ask? Rewards of those who sought after Yahavah in spirit and in truth, and those who had peddled a false narrative and couldn’t even love properly even though they had “faith.” I can’t even love properly unless I abide in Christ and it’s Jesus in and through me that does the work; never myself. However people rely on themselves to get what is needed to be done all while at the same time they mock what Yahavah has laid out for people to see and understand if they so sought it to be made free of the religious bondages of man.

Hi,

The promise of salvation is not obtained uncondionally nor can it be retained unconditionally. Therefore the OSASer cannot point to an example where God UNcondionally saved a person who was living and continually lived in disobedience, in defiance of God's will.

Men must first CONDITIONALLY turn to God In obedient faith to His will in order to obtain the promise of life and continue to be turned to God in faith to keep this promise.

If one must first CONDITIONALLY believe to obtain the promise of eternal life then it only makes sense, and is Biblical, that one must CONDITIONALLY keep on believing in order to keep on possessing the promise of eternal life.

 

[APAK]

The issue is not about God's ability or inability to save men, but the issue is HOW God saves men and God never made salvation an unconditional promise......God never promised to save men unconditionally regardless of how men choose to live their lives. God has made obedience to His will conditional to being saved (Heb 5:9) therefore no one can find a single example of God unconditionally saving those who CONTINUE to live in contempt, in rebellion, in disobedience to His will.

Free will does not belong only to the lost who can choose to obey and be saved, it also belongs to the saved who can choose to turn from God in disobedience and become lost.

Yes, the condition(s) for salvation are set/known in scripture and inside the hearts of genuine believers. Although keeping the faith until death is a primal condition that every believer has, like breathing air through their lungs. They never lose it. In fact it increases over time with deeper and stronger faith. These conditions for salvation of course are not set and established by oneself. They are given over by their so-called free-will to the Spirit of God. More and more on their walk of life they continue to comply and give in increasingly to the Spirit of God.

If one has and lived with their same carnal condition of their so-called 'free will' from the beginning of their salvation moment or knowledge and journey, today, then I would say they were never saved in the first place. And their condition(s) for salvation are in jeopardy or failing/faltering as their so-called free-will still controls their hearts and minds. It will never work, one never will be saved in this human-centric arrangement.

The Spirit of God molds the wills and minds of the saved with ever increasing faith over time...the sign of a true believer who will be saved with the same certainty as first being led by the Spirit; and not their by their limited free-will as many fool themselves today as being saved when they are not.

They are truly saved or they are not. It is binary spiritual condition, there is not gray/grey area, and no flipping in and out of salvation over time based on the uncertainty and fragility and easy-influenced human will.

Thus there are many even on this site who believe you can lose your/their salvation because they themselves are not truly saved....they have their free will still fully in charge...and have not given their hearts over to God yet...shame

.

 

[MatthewG]

Hi,

The promise of salvation is not obtained uncondionally nor can it be retained unconditionally. Therefore the OSASer cannot point to an example where God UNcondionally saved a person who was living and continually lived in disobedience, in defiance of God's will.

Men must first CONDITIONALLY turn to God In obedient faith to His will in order to obtain the promise of life and continue to be turned to God in faith to keep this promise.

If one must first CONDITIONALLY believe to obtain the promise of eternal life then it only makes sense, and is Biblical, that one must CONDITIONALLY keep on believing in order to keep on possessing the promise of eternal life.

Yes, the condition(s) for salvation are set/known in scripture and inside the hearts of genuine believers. Although keeping the faith until death is a primal condition that every believer has, like breathing air through their lungs. They never lose it. In fact it increases over time with deeper and stronger faith. These conditions for salvation of course are not set and established by oneself. They are given over by their so-called free-will to the Spirit of God. More and more on their walk of life they continue to comply and give in increasingly to the Spirit of God.

If one has and lived with their same carnal condition of their so-called 'free will' from the beginning of their salvation moment or knowledge and journey, today, then I would say they were never saved in the first place. And their condition(s) for salvation are in jeopardy or failing/faltering as their so-called free-will still controls their hearts and minds. It will never work, one never will be saved in this human-centric arrangement.

The Spirit of God molds the wills and minds of the saved with ever increasing faith over time...the sign of a true believer who will be saved with the same certainty as first being led by the Spirit; and not their by their limited free-will as many fool themselves today as being saved when they are not.

They are truly saved or they are not. It is binary spiritual condition, there is not gray/grey area, and no flipping in and out of salvation over time based on the uncertainty and fragility and easy-influenced human will.

Thus there are many even on this site who believe you can lose your/their salvation because they themselves are not truly saved....they have their free will still fully in charge...and have not given their hearts over to God yet...shame

.

Hello to both of you,

Just something I’m reminded of; not that I always do so; however God knows what every person does personally.

16 Rejoice always, 17 pray continually, 18 give thanks in all circumstances; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.
19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not treat prophecies with contempt 21 but test them all; hold on to what is good, 22 reject every kind of evil.

 

[Taken]

....turning from God in disobedience becoming lost is men exercising their free will.

If you exercise your freewill to STAND IN Agreement WITH God to Accept His Offering of SALVATION….

THEN…argue a man CAN “exercise his freewill to DECLINE, Return, (or KEEP his Gift of Salvation while NOT believing).You have fallen for a load of man-made nonsense…
AS IF….ha, ha, ha….that man has “outsmarted” tricked and fooled:
The…..hello…….ALL KNOWING GOD!

Do you NOT RECALL…Scriptural teaching…to TEST EVERYTHING?
Do you NOT KNOW….the Lord God Himself VERIFIES a man Heartful Confession of BELIEF to be TRUE FOREVER….
BEFORE that man is Given Gods Offered Gift of Salvation?

Rom 8:
[27] And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

God is not fooled.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Does the meaning of the word ONCE have some people baffled?

Only those that twist scripture and ignore other scripture... believes in so called "once saved always saved" which was not taught by the early church because scripture does not actually teach OSAS

Those that truly believe in OSAS are engaging in sinful behavior by teaching this to others as this is heresy and heresy is listed as one of the works of the flesh that causes people to not inherit the Kingdom of God (in otherwords, they go south when they die!)

Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, HERESIES,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Taken]

Only those that twist scripture and ignore other scripture... believes in so called "once saved always saved" which was not taught by the early church because scripture does not actually teach OSAS.

Actually the Ancient Christ’s Church began with Jesus’ ministry in fields, the Jewish Temple and Jewish synagogues…. Before gentile men began making their historical claim to fame of the oldest Christian church, with their trinkets, statues, doctrines, teachings beyond the scope of Scriptural teachings to masses that could not read or verify what they were told.

Scripture teaches to not be ignorant, and the more men learned to read and verify for themselves, they bit by bit became exposed to the Truth of Gods Word.

If Gods plan for the world to be exposed to His Truths according to His Order and Way is not satisfactory to you, you can take that complaint up with God.

Those that truly believe in OSAS are engaging in sinful behavior by teaching this to others as this is heresy and heresy is listed as one of the works of the flesh that causes people to not inherit the Kingdom of God (in otherwords, they go south when they die!)

Do tell HOW a “BODILY DEAD MAN”….returns to LIFE…so he can LOSE his SALVATION….??

Or UH, did you NOT KNOW….Bodily dead men know nothing….??
AND …
A man DOES NOT RECEIVE HIS GIFT OF SALVATION until AFTER His BODiLY DEATH?
YOU … forget?? Never learned??
Gods Order and Way?

1 Cor 15;
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, HERESIES,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Warnings are not new to that which does and does not apply to whom.

And “SOME”….actually “FEW” will FREELY exercise their FREEWILL to FREELY surrender their LIVES unto God and Receive HIS FORGIVENESS, HIS offered GIFT to “ONCE” and “FOREVER” Be with their Lord God Almighty.

Jesus was sent as an Example for stifffnecked, stubborn, ignorant men to Learn From….Did you miss the lesson of Jesus Willingly giving His body unto Death ONCE?

Yet…Seemingly His example is beyond your scope to recognize and accept that which Jesus accomplish-ed (past tense) ONCE AND Offered for men to accomplish the same ONCE.

And such men WHO have accomplished willingly giving their body unto death….
ARE Scripturally called:
ARE Forgiv-EN (past tense…)
ARE Washe-ED (past tense…)
ARE Sav-ED (past tense…)
ARE Sanctifi-ED (past tense…)
ARE Justifi-ED (past tense…)
Quicken-ED (past tense…)

It effects me not if you have Learned, Trust or Believe Scripture…

However your faulty accusations against what you do not know or understand will only be accountable unto you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Yes, the condition(s) for salvation are set/known in scripture and inside the hearts of genuine believers. Although keeping the faith until death is a primal condition that every believer has, like breathing air through their lungs. They never lose it. In fact it increases over time with deeper and stronger faith. These conditions for salvation of course are not set and established by oneself. They are given over by their so-called free-will to the Spirit of God. More and more on their walk of life they continue to comply and give in increasingly to the Spirit of God.

If one has and lived with their same carnal condition of their so-called 'free will' from the beginning of their salvation moment or knowledge and journey, today, then I would say they were never saved in the first place. And their condition(s) for salvation are in jeopardy or failing/faltering as their so-called free-will still controls their hearts and minds. It will never work, one never will be saved in this human-centric arrangement.

The Spirit of God molds the wills and minds of the saved with ever increasing faith over time...the sign of a true believer who will be saved with the same certainty as first being led by the Spirit; and not their by their limited free-will as many fool themselves today as being saved when they are not.

They are truly saved or they are not. It is binary spiritual condition, there is not gray/grey area, and no flipping in and out of salvation over time based on the uncertainty and fragility and easy-influenced human will.

Thus there are many even on this site who believe you can lose your/their salvation because they themselves are not truly saved....they have their free will still fully in charge...and have not given their hearts over to God yet...shame

.

Christians are warned of falling, of apostasy. Both words carry the idea of a change in position......

apostasy...apostasia

646 apostasía (from 868 /aphístēmi, "leave, depart," which is derived from 575 /apó, "away from" and 2476 /histémi, "stand") – properly, departure (implying desertion); apostasy – literally, "a leaving, from a previous standing."

Strong's Greek: 646. ἀποστασία (apostasia) -- Apostasy, rebellion, defection, falling away

If OSAS were true, then it would render these words fall and apostasy as being untrue. Falling and apostasy refer to those who were in a saved standing but fell from it, defected from it to a lost standing, a change from a previous position. A person 'never really saved' cannot fall for he is already fallen. A person cannot fall from, move away from a previous standing he was never in. Hence the 'never really saved'" argument has no merit here.
One cannot depart from the faith if he was never in the faith. Yet falling/apostasy refers to those who were in the faith, a saved position but fall from the faith to a lost position...a leaving..from a previous standing of being in the faith to abandoning, defecting from the faith.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

If you exercise your freewill to STAND IN Agreement WITH God to Accept His Offering of SALVATION….

THEN…argue a man CAN “exercise his freewill to DECLINE, Return, (or KEEP his Gift of Salvation while NOT believing).You have fallen for a load of man-made nonsense…
AS IF….ha, ha, ha….that man has “outsmarted” tricked and fooled:
The…..hello…….ALL KNOWING GOD!

Do you NOT RECALL…Scriptural teaching…to TEST EVERYTHING?
Do you NOT KNOW….the Lord God Himself VERIFIES a man Heartful Confession of BELIEF to be TRUE FOREVER….
BEFORE that man is Given Gods Offered Gift of Salvation?

Rom 8:
[27] And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

God is not fooled.

Glory to God,
Taken

People of their free will can choose to believe and people can by using that same volition also choose to quit believing.

Luke writes of Simon that he "believed" (Acts 8:13) a statement of fact yet Simon fell away becoming lost due to his 'wickedness', he was in a state where he was perishing, v20, in the bond of iniquity, v23. For anyone to come along and say Simon "never really believed" rejects the context and is trying to change the context to fit a personal theological agenda. Luke nor the Holy Spirit Who inspired Luke did not lie about Simon's believing. Luke did not say Simon's belief was feigned. God was not fooled for God knew Simon in v13 believed but Simon fell later on due to choosing to commit sin/wickedness against God.

Though a person truly believes does not mean they will be perfectly sinless, unable to ever sin for believers can and do sin and some sin to the point of falling away becoming lost. If Simon did not 'really believe' should we also think those Samaritans never really believed' either per v12? These Samaritans were not perfectly sinless either, they would sin as Simon and have to repent of those sins else be lost as Simon.

Does OSAS mean the Christian will have to live a perfectly sinless life?
When the Christian commits a sin, a single sin, does that sinning prove he was 'never really saved'?
When the Christian sins, can he continue to live in that sin unrepentantly yet be saved anyway? Does God saves the impenitent? Rom 2:4-6
Does God UNconditionally save men in their sins and men can continue in their sin and be saved unconditionally?

If a person quits believing does their quitting prove they never really believed? If a person quits smoking does their quitting prove they never really smoked? Can a person quit, depart from, defect from, leave something they never really did?

 

[Taken]

People of their free will can choose to believe and people can by using that same volition also choose to quit believing.

@Dan Clarkston
@Ernest T. Bass

Absolutely people can believe IN God, IN Jesus, IN Anything…and QUIT “BELIEVING”…in whatever.
Nothing new, As I have said multiple times.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

@Dan Clarkston
@Ernest T. Bass



So WHERE in ALL of Scripture….are YOU taught…Gods step by step works of Conversion IN a man….
ARE Required more than ONCE ? or REPEATED…more than ONCE…?
OR
CAN BE reversed? Or undone?

Glory to God,
Taken

In the case of Simon, he believed and was baptized, as was those Samaritans per Mark 16:16......he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. If Simon was not really saved' no reason to think those Samaritans were really saved either.

After being saved, Simon committed wickedness therefore found himself in a state where he 'perish'. Simon did not need to be baptized again but was commanded to repent of his wickedness. Repentance is the second avenue of pardon for those that are Christians since Christians do sin therefore find themselves in need of forgiveness.

The promise of eternal life is conditional therefore it must be received CONDITIONALLY and kept CONDITIONALLY. Either one meets God's conditions and contimues to meet those conditions or one turns from God forfeiting this conditional promise.

Can you point out where the promise of eternal life is received and kept UNconditionally?

Does OSAS mean the Christian will have to live a perfectly sinless life?
When the Christian commits a sin, a single sin, does that sinning prove he was 'never really saved'?
When the Christian sins, can he continue to live in that sin unrepentantly yet be saved anyway? Does God saves the impenitent? Rom 2:4-6
Does God UNconditionally save men in their sins and men can continue in their sin and be saved unconditionally?

If a person quits believing does their quitting prove they never really believed? If a person quits smoking does their quitting prove they never really smoked? Can a person quit, depart from, defect from, leave something they never really did?

 

[Taken]

@Ernest T. Bass

Will you give your definition of SIN?
Will you answer who can forgive SIN?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Can you point out where the promise of eternal life is received and kept UNconditionally?

Eternal life Kept “UNconditionally” ? No

Eternal life is KEPT “conditionally” BY the POWER of God.
1 Pet 1:
[4] To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
[5] Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Does OSAS mean the Christian will have to live a perfectly sinless life?

Have to live a perfectly sinless life?
Have to incorrect term.
Those born again of God, SIN NO MORE.
1 John 3:
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

When the Christian commits a sin, a single sin, does that sinning prove he was 'never really saved'?

When anyone commits sin, he is not born again.

If a person quits believing does their quitting prove they never really believed?

No. It simply proves he believed in his Carnal Mind and then changed his mind.

If a person quits smoking does their quitting prove they never really smoked?

LOL…No it proves they smoked and then stopped.

Can a person quit, depart from, defect from, leave something they never really did?

No you can not depart from that which you were not a part of.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Only those that twist scripture and ignore other scripture... believes in so called "once saved always saved"

 

[Ritajanice]

One knows 100% in their spirit that they are Born Of God, that his seed remains in them permanently.its the Living Holy Spirits seed that penetrates the spirit, we have a new heart and spirit, we are in the righteousness of Christ.in the world not of the world, were in Gods supernatural realm on earth today.

You need to have a living testimony testifying Gods truth to one’s spirit, his name is the Holy Spirit, only he can witness of God to one’s spirit.

Posting reams and reams of scripture or commentaries doesn’t birth one’s spirit...intellectual knowledge births no one, only Gods witness His Living Holy Spirit can perform that act, by supernatural divine, heart revelation.

Flesh gives birth to flesh. man’s Living seed penetrates the woman’s egg...results in a featus growing in the womb

Spirit gives birth to spirit..,the Living seed must penetrate the heart/ spirit.results the Living Spirit in our spirit growing and maturing our spirit that is in the Spirit of Christ.to become more like him, to bear his fruit..to walk as a disciple for Christ, to Glorify and Honour his Name..,to Praise the Father for sending his only Son to that cross, so that we can become Born Again by Gods Living Witness the Holy Spirit.

 

[Taken]

Christians are warned of falling, of apostasy. Both words carry the idea of a change in position......

Christians People are warned of falling from FAITH.

If OSAS were true, then it would render these words fall and apostasy as being untrue. Falling and apostasy refer to those who were in a saved standing but fell from it, defected from it to a lost standing, a change from a previous position.

False.

Faith LEADS to being PREPARED for Receiving the Gift of Salvation.

The Terms….Christian, Believer, Faith….
DOES NOT MEAN one HAS RECEIVED the Gift of Salvation.

Christian is a description of a person Hearing, Learning, Following Christ Jesus’ Teachings.

Believer is a description of a person Hearing, Learning, Following and BELIEVING Christ Jesus’ Teachings.

Faith is a “measured” GIFT from God to persons WHO ARE Hearing the Word o God.
(Hear a LITTLE of Gods Word….Receive a LITTLE of Gods Gift of Faith.)

The individual (not God) identifies hisself as a “Christian”.

The individual (not God) makes the effort to “hear the Word of God.”

God (not the individual) Gifts the individual Measures of Faith (not Salvation), for “Hearing the Word of God.”

The individual CAN….STOP Hearing.
The individual CAN….STOP Believing.
And God SHALL STOP Gifting that individual with “measures..increasing FAITH”.

That individual IS NOT (as you claim)…

“Falling and apostasy refer to those who were in a saved standing but fell from it”

Apostasy IS and individual HAVING “TASTED” FAITH….and then “REJECTED” FAITH….
They have “FALLEN FROM FAITH”…

Heb 6:
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

An individual WHO HAS…. ”EATEN” the Word of God…IS the same individual who is CALLED….Forgiven, ”Converted IN Christ”….SAV-ED…Born OF God…RECEIV-ED Salvation…ONCE, and forever and always WITH the Lord God and the Lord God Forever WITH that individual.

Matt 18
[3] And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Yes; men CAN FALL FROM FAITH.
No; men CAN NOT FALL FROM CONVERSION.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ritajanice]

The problem is @Taken ..if one is still in ones intellect as in the natural man, there imo, is no point in debating as they will never get it..,not until the Spirit brings them to his supernatural truth.

That’s why I have stopped debating with many, that’s what I believe the Spirit has shown me to do..just plant the seeds of my word, then move on, he doesn’t want me arguing constantly over it.

 

[Taken]

Only those that twist scripture and ignore other scripture... believes in so called "once saved always saved" which was not taught by the early church because scripture does not actually teach OSAS

Twisting Scripture? Example?

Ignore other Scripture? Uh…Do YOU “ignore or apply” scriptures to “yourself” that exclusively apply to “women or non-believers”?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

The problem is @Taken ..if one is still in ones intellect as in the natural man, there imo, is no point in debating as they will never get it..,not until the Spirit brings them to his supernatural truth.

That’s why I have stopped debating with many, that’s what I believe the Spirit has shown me to do..just plant the seeds of my word, then move on, he doesn’t want me arguing constantly over it.

I am NOT trying to CONVINCE THEM to believe me…
RATHER…
I point out what Gods TRUTH DOES OFFER, what an individual CAN TAKE, HAVE, POSSESS forever, FOR the benefit of “ANY” member of this forum to hear, learn, WHAT God Offers and HOW an individual can RECEIVE Gods Offering ONCE and “THAT” received GIFT OF SALVATION BE “KEPT” unto them “FOREVER”, exclusively by the POWER of God (not kept in and of themselves!)

God Bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken