What is the proof Jesus is eternally begotten son?

[Earburner]

You must be confused again. Trying to twist scripture to fit human understanding and doctrine. There is no mind or Spirit of Christ before he was made flesh in these Proverb verses. Where are you drawing this information from?

Really? There was no mind or Spirit of Christ, before he was made to be flesh??
> The answer is: for you to discover who it is that is speaking:
Prov. 8
[22] The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
[23] I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

> And then compare the above to who was speaking "in the volume of the book [of Prov. 8]" to Heb. 10:5-9.
Heb. 10
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book [of Prov. 8] it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
[8] Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first [OC.], that he may establish the second [NC.].

 

[Verily]

1 Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

They apparently mention the Spirit of Christ being in them prior to Christ's manifestation in the flesh

 

[APAK]

Really? There was no mind or Spirit of Christ, before he was made to be flesh??
> The answer is: for you to discover who it is that is speaking:
Prov. 8
[22] The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
[23] I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

> And then compare the above to who was speaking "in the volume of the book [of Prov. 8]" to Heb. 10:5-9.
Heb. 10
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book [of Prov. 8] it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
[8] Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first [OC.], that he may establish the second [NC.].

EB: You cannot give up not making any solid argument or conclusion because you apparently do not understand what you write or quote...

For example in Proverbs 8:22-23 ...the LORD, not Jesus or the one made a lord by his Father God, possessed 'me.' Regardless of who is 'me' and for argument's sake we'll say it is Christ. Why cannot you see then that God is superior to Jesus his Son if he possessed him? And how and when did he possess him? He was in God's mind as his plan even before the earth was created. This is what verses 23 and 24 means.

And you can used the same logic in Heb 10 to clearly show that God, the Father of Jesus is the main subject of this chapter....if you dare.

You have not made any headway in your recent posts, but you have managed to confuse yourself again and misuse scripture for your own purposes and benefit. And I'm for one not amused or delighted in any way with your disturbing explanation of scripture where you raise Jesus the Son of God over his Father..

 

[Earburner]

EB: You cannot give up not making any solid argument or conclusion because you apparently do not understand what you write or quote...

For example in Proverbs 8:22-23 ...the LORD, not Jesus or the one made a lord by his Father God, possessed 'me.' Regardless of who is 'me' and for argument's sake we'll say it is Christ. Why cannot you see then that God is superior to Jesus his Son if he possessed him? And how and when did he possess him? He was in God's mind as his plan even before the earth was created. This is what verses 23 and 24 means.

And you can used the same logic in Heb 10 to clearly show that God, the Father of Jesus is the main subject of this chapter....if you dare.

You have not made any headway in your recent posts, but you have managed to confuse yourself again and misuse scripture for your own purposes and benefit. And I'm for one not amused or delighted in any way with your disturbing explanation of scripture where you raise Jesus the Son of God over his Father..

Simply put, it's called the "Godhead".
Col. 2
[8] Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
[9] For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
[10] And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Whatever else you want it to be is nothing more than splintering scripture by your own human mind, aka "the wisdom of men".

John 10
[30] I and my Father are one.

John 14
[28] Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
John 14
[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and WE will come unto him, and make OUR abode with him.

Mark 4
[11] And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Rom. 16
[25] Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

As I had said before:
"The answer is not found within us, nor can it be established by anything of our own will, through the efforts of human wisdom.
We are called to know of Jesus' eternal existence, by accepting it through faith."

See Prov. 8:22-31 again. If you cannot accept those words by faith, then it's to your loss, in your own conundrum.

 

[PGS11]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

 

[The Learner]

Where do they get eternally from monogenes?

Why not call it what it is as defined without make it extra spicy?

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten G3439 of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Monogenes (adjective)

1. single of its kind, only
   1. used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents)
   2. used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God

only begotten 6, only 2, only child 1

Same word use here also.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten G3439 Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

This is the verse (very specifically) where the Nicene creed (at least over at CF) adds "begotten not made" (whereas the actual word made is used in John 1:14 a few verses earlier along with "only begotten" also).
The words "the only begotten" in both of the John 1:14, & 1:18 are adjectives (and not verbs) so I do not understand why that would be chicken scratched in by John 1:18 It would sort of be like saying, Only child (adjective) not made (verb) versus contrasting it with the other word "begotten" G1080 (a verb) for example in Hebrews 5:5 (posted below)

Regardless, "God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law", we know Jesus Romans 1:3 was made of the seed of David according to the flesh. Heb 2:9 who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death. Even as the Word was made flesh in order to suffer that death.

I don't understand the taboo in using the word made in relation to Jesus Christ since he was made alot of things for us and unto us by God the Father. Besides, using the word "became" in the place of "made" does not really work well in every place concerning Christ. They are synonomous though.

Became (verb) G1096 ginomai

1. to become, be made

The verb form of begotten along with made are used in relation to Jesus in Hebrews 5:5 So the chicken scratched "Begotten not made" (in the literal sense of the use of them) would give someone a chuckle to suggest that tag at this verse

Hebrews 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made G1096 an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten G1080 thee.

Begotten (verb) gennao

1. of men who fathered children
   1. to be born
   2. to be begotten
      1. of women giving birth to children
2. metaph.
   1. to engender, cause to arise, excite
   2. in a Jewish sense, of one who brings others over to his way of life, to convert someone
   3. of God making Christ his son
   4. of God making men his sons through faith in Christ's work

Might be better to say, the eternal God had begotten him, versus Jesus is eternally begotten since eternal can refer to the nature of God, "eternally" on the other hand can refer to perpetuality begotten. No?

It takes me awhile to get things, this is one doesn't make that much sense to me.

Where do they get eternally from monogenes? You don't it is a different greek word.

 

[The Learner]

EB: You cannot give up not making any solid argument or conclusion because you apparently do not understand what you write or quote...

For example in Proverbs 8:22-23 ...the LORD, not Jesus or the one made a lord by his Father God, possessed 'me.' Regardless of who is 'me' and for argument's sake we'll say it is Christ. Why cannot you see then that God is superior to Jesus his Son if he possessed him? And how and when did he possess him? He was in God's mind as his plan even before the earth was created. This is what verses 23 and 24 means.

And you can used the same logic in Heb 10 to clearly show that God, the Father of Jesus is the main subject of this chapter....if you dare.

You have not made any headway in your recent posts, but you have managed to confuse yourself again and misuse scripture for your own purposes and benefit. And I'm for one not amused or delighted in any way with your disturbing explanation of scripture where you raise Jesus the Son of God over his Father..

It seems if he was God's mind, then he did possessed him as wisdom.

 

[APAK]

It seems if he was God's mind, then he did possessed him as wisdom.

Not God's mind. God's mental purpose, planned and placed his wisdom or word into his Son. Therefore God's wisdom possesses him, Jesus.