What is the proof Jesus is eternally begotten son?
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The day Jesus was begotten from the dead you mean?
Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Taken
Well-Known Member
What is the proof Jesus is eternally begotten son?
Beget - Begotten -
** To bring forth (typically an offspring of a male).
Gods WORD - (in the beginning (OT) and Again later (NT); came forth out from Gods mouth.
God SENT … His WORD (holy thing) TO Where God intended IT to prosper.
God SENT …. His WORD (holy thing) IN the LIKENESS, (Look, Appearance ) AS A Jewish man, (Of the House of David).
Gods SAID … He would BE A father to Jesus, AND Jesus would BE to Him A son.
God CALLED …. His WORD, by the Name JESUS.
God REVEALED …. His WORD IS:
The Messiah, The CHRIST.
God REVEALED … The CHRIST IS:
Gods POWER, Gods WISDOM, Gods SEED.
JESUS REVEALED … “I AM HE”…
God CALLED JESUS … GOD.
If you can NOT find the Verifying Scriptures for my statements….
Copy statement, and ASK me for the verifying Scripture.
Glory to God,
Taken
Beget - Begotten -
** To bring forth (typically an offspring of a male).
Gods WORD - (in the beginning (OT) and Again later (NT); came forth out from Gods mouth.
God SENT … His WORD (holy thing) TO Where God intended IT to prosper.
God SENT …. His WORD (holy thing) IN the LIKENESS, (Look, Appearance ) AS A Jewish man, (Of the House of David).
Gods SAID … He would BE A father to Jesus, AND Jesus would BE to Him A son.
God CALLED …. His WORD, by the Name JESUS.
God REVEALED …. His WORD IS:
The Messiah, The CHRIST.
God REVEALED … The CHRIST IS:
Gods POWER, Gods WISDOM, Gods SEED.
JESUS REVEALED … “I AM HE”…
God CALLED JESUS … GOD.
If you can NOT find the Verifying Scriptures for my statements….
Copy statement, and ASK me for the verifying Scripture.
Glory to God,
Taken
The Nicene Creed states, "We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father".
Hello @The Learner,
Jesus became known as the begotten son, after his resurrection. Not prior. Those creeds don't hold up to any merit, concerning if one bases their view from the viewpoint of scripture, and not the idea and creeds that man has created.
Jesus became known as the begotten son, after his resurrection. Not prior. Those creeds don't hold up to any merit, concerning if one bases their view from the viewpoint of scripture, and not the idea and creeds that man has created.
I have no idea what "eternally" begotten even means, I just use the words found in scripture as they speak I dont use the words of concepts outside of them.
I never got why the creed has a chicken scratch next to a verse in John 1:14 which says, "begotten NOT made" when it uses both those words in a place where Jesus is begotten.
Hebrews 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
I don't understand the the phobia with the word "made" because it shows very plainly in the scripture that God made Jesus alot of things
God made him a lot of things
The Word was MADE Flesh (John 1:14)
God sent His Son, MADE of a Woman (Gal 4:4)
Jesus Christ, MADE of the Seed of David (Romans 1:3
God MADE him a little lower than the Angels(Psalm 8:5, Hebrews 2:9)
MADE of the seed of Abraham (Hebrews 2:9) for the suffering of death
Whom God MADE both Lord and Christ (Hebrews 5:5)
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to BE MADE like unto his brethren (Heb 2:17)
Whom God glorified and MADE High priest (Hebrews 5:5) Who glorified NOT himself TO BE MADE high priest
Who of God is also MADE unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption (1 Cr 1:30)
Whom God MADE the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. (Hebrews 2:10)
Who was MADE perfect, and BECAME the author of eternal salvation (Hebrews 5:9)
Who would also MAKE His soul an offering for sin (Isaiah 53:10)
He was MADE sin for us (2 Cr 5:21)
The stone which the builders disallowed, the same IS MADE the head of the corner (1 Peter 2:7)
And there are others not in the above list.
As the "only begotten" (an adjective) in John 1:14. Not the actual verbs folks will fight to the death over that exist throughout scripture and both together in Hebrews 5:5
Hebrews 5:5
So G3779 also G2532 Christ G5547 glorified G1392 not G3756 himself G1438 to be made G1096 an high priest; G749 but G235 he that said G2980 unto G4314 him, G846 Thou G4771 art G1488 my G3450 Son, G5207 to day G4594 have G1080 G0 I G1473 begotten G1080 thee. G4571 |
John 1:14
And G2532 the Word G3056 was made G1096 flesh, G4561 and G2532 dwelt G4637 among G1722 us, G2254 (and G2532 we beheld G2300 his G846 glory, G1391 the glory G1391 as G5613 of the only begotten G3439 of G3844 the Father,) G3962 full G4134 of grace G5485 and G2532 truth. G225
Hello @Verily,
A reasonable account is that John wrote his gospel after Yeshua's resurrection, I digress. It seems that perhaps even an attachment of 1 John could have came with the Gospel he had written. I was reading 1 John today, to myself.
1 John 1:1-4
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 We write this to make our[a] joy complete.
Thank you for your contributions.
A reasonable account is that John wrote his gospel after Yeshua's resurrection, I digress. It seems that perhaps even an attachment of 1 John could have came with the Gospel he had written. I was reading 1 John today, to myself.
1 John 1:1-4
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 We write this to make our[a] joy complete.
Thank you for your contributions.
It's not in scripture for a very good reason. Now if you left out the 'eternally' then yes, it is stated directly and by implication.
So why do most folks insist Jesus was ETERNALLY begotten as the Father's only conceived and birthed son?
Now that is the real question...
Thats sorta how I think of it, the scriptures do not speak like that, In the day he was begotten was when he rose from the dead. If you say, he never died, that's denying the gospel, if you say he offered himself eternally (after that fashion) then that would disagree with Heb 9:26 " For then must he "often" have suffered since the foundation of the world". He was born into the world once right, we preach God sent his son made of a woman made under the law, the word made flesh. But when he was begotten by God it was the day he was begotten from the dead, being the first begotten from the dead. But I have no clue to why people add to more words to what is written like that.
Edit: bad sentences, sorry about that, need a cup of coffee.
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In the Nicene Creed, the Greek word translated as eternally "begotten" is "monogenes" which can be translated as unique.
John 3,16
CJB
“For God so loved the world that he gave his only and unique Son, so that everyone who trusts in him may have eternal life, instead of being utterly destroyed.
If the creed meant unique, this is how they match or line up
John 3,16
CJB
“For God so loved the world that he gave his only and unique Son, so that everyone who trusts in him may have eternal life, instead of being utterly destroyed.
If the creed meant unique, this is how they match or line up
Where do they get eternally from monogenes?
Why not call it what it is as defined without make it extra spicy?
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten G3439 of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Monogenes (adjective)
- single of its kind, only
- used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents)
- used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God
Same word use here also.
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten G3439 Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
This is the verse (very specifically) where the Nicene creed (at least over at CF) adds "begotten not made" (whereas the actual word made is used in John 1:14 a few verses earlier along with "only begotten" also).
The words "the only begotten" in both of the John 1:14, & 1:18 are adjectives (and not verbs) so I do not understand why that would be chicken scratched in by John 1:18 It would sort of be like saying, Only child (adjective) not made (verb) versus contrasting it with the other word "begotten" G1080 (a verb) for example in Hebrews 5:5 (posted below)
Regardless, "God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law", we know Jesus Romans 1:3 was made of the seed of David according to the flesh. Heb 2:9 who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death. Even as the Word was made flesh in order to suffer that death.
I don't understand the taboo in using the word made in relation to Jesus Christ since he was made alot of things for us and unto us by God the Father. Besides, using the word "became" in the place of "made" does not really work well in every place concerning Christ. They are synonomous though.
Became (verb) G1096 ginomai
- to become, be made
The verb form of begotten along with made are used in relation to Jesus in Hebrews 5:5 So the chicken scratched "Begotten not made" (in the literal sense of the use of them) would give someone a chuckle to suggest that tag at this verse
Hebrews 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made G1096 an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten G1080 thee.
Begotten (verb) gennao
- of men who fathered children
- to be born
- to be begotten
- of women giving birth to children
- metaph.
- to engender, cause to arise, excite
- in a Jewish sense, of one who brings others over to his way of life, to convert someone
- of God making Christ his son
- of God making men his sons through faith in Christ's work
Might be better to say, the eternal God had begotten him, versus Jesus is eternally begotten since eternal can refer to the nature of God, "eternally" on the other hand can refer to perpetuality begotten. No?
It takes me awhile to get things, this is one doesn't make that much sense to me.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
The answer is not found within us, nor can it be established by anything of our own will, through the efforts of human wisdom.
We are called to know of Jesus' eternal existence, by accepting it through faith.
Prov. 8
[22] The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
[23] I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
[24] When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
[25] Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
[26] While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
[27] When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
[28] When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
[29] When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
[30] Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
[31] Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
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I'm sorry EB, as you encourage or promote a dangerous path to follow, by placing faith in men's doctrines and translations, not faith in scripture and the Spirit of God.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
In case you didn't notice, Prov. 8:22-31 is scripture, being the mind [Spirit] of Christ Himself, before he was made to be flesh.
Try again, but this time reflect on 1 Cor. 2:5 first.
[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men [church-ianity], but in the power [anointing] of God.
You must be confused again. Trying to twist scripture to fit human understanding and doctrine. There is no mind or Spirit of Christ before he was made flesh in these Proverb verses. Where are you drawing this information from?
Prov 8:22-31 is all about the personification of wisdom, of the works of God, not of the Son of God.
And 1 Cor 2:5 is about following God's power and wisdom and not any human wisdom or understanding. The Son of God follows his Father's wisdom and given some of his power, and we should do the same. We should do as Christ did and does today, regarding his Father, who is also our Father.
Our faith should be anchored in the mighty power of God, not in human wisdom or persuasive speech...
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