Work out your own Salvation?

[Ritajanice]

I can't always keep up with every comment and question in a discussion these days I'm afraid. But of course it is by the Holy Spirit.....AKA the spirit of Christ, AKA imperishable seed.

It is by the witness of the Holy Spirit, who testifies Of God’s truth to our heart?

Who testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children, if not by the Holy Spirit, did he testify with your spirit that you are Gods child?

No it's not opinion. This is God's word, not my opinion. I just read it and take it to heart because it's the truth and was written for our good:

And I did the same, a Born Again can never lose their salvation.i posted scripture to support what I preach is true.

give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all ; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. John 10:28-29

Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you. Hebrews 13:5

Rom 11:20-22

Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

A Born Again has been set free from un-belief, they have been supernaturally birthed, which is a Living spirit birth?

For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Do you deny that scripture I posted?

Saying all that the Father gives to the Son, they can’t be taken from him?

give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all ; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. John 10:28-29

Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you. Hebrews 13:5

Some people do get born again by the Spirit through reading scripture.

Where does God say we get Born Again in his word?
Some also are Born Again by not reading scripture....reading scripture does not make your spirit Born Again, that is an act that only can be done, by divine heart revelation.by Gods Living witness His Living Holy Spirit, scripture confirms this?

And scripture itself says the scripture is able to make one wise unto salvation.

Tell me how scripture makes you wise unto salvation ?

The Holy Spirit makes us wise unto salvation.how do you know that you are saved from eternal damnation , only the Spirit can witness that truth to our hearts/ spirit, the scriptures confirms this.

Reading and quoting scripture does not make your spirit Born Again, that can only come by divine, heart revelation....

But there is no competition between the word of God and the Holy Spirit..........they are both witnesses and they both AGREE, hand in hand.

Scripture is not a Living witness, the Holy Spirit is and scripture confirms this.

Different gifts for different folks for the building up of the body of Christ. There is no need to despise sound knowledge/understanding of scripture.

Same applies to you.

All the body parts are needful, as scripture says.

 

[Ritajanice]

Nobody else can take us out of God's hand sister, that is true. But it is possible for US to crawl out of His hand.

Nonsense , how can you crawl out of the Holy Spirit, when we have been birthed by divine heart revelation.?

That's why the devil deceives people....because he can't take us away from the Lord, so he has to deceive and tempt people into doing that themselves. The Lord doesn't force anyone to stay in His hand. HE will never forsake us......but it's understood that is true as long as we don't forsake Him, as Amigo already pointed out that other scripture which says if we forsake Him He will forsake us. We need the whole counsel of God, not just cherry picked verses.

Yes, and he’s certainly deceiving you, crawling out of Jesus hands you say.

We have been spiritually reborn, so you explain how we can become un-spiritually reborn?

Born Again of imperishable seed that liveth and abideth forever.

Where does that seed we have been Born Again of liveth and abideth forever @Lizbeth ?

Liveth and abideth forever where in us?

 

[Ritajanice]

Oy vey. What does it mean to be cut off? This is not rocket science. The analogy of birth is only an analogy not literal. Trying to make a case that because a literal baby can't return to a literal womb once it's been born literally, that that therefore applies to spiritual birth........is not a valid argument.

Yes it is, once we have been birthed into God’s Spirit...supernaturally by divine heart revelation.

We aren’t enlightened we are birthed by Gods Spirit.

The blindness surrounding this subject is beyond belief.....but that's the nature of deception. Unfortunately it's a stronghold for many.

Indeed..only it’s not me thats being blinded from God’s truth.

 

[Lizbeth]

Scripture is not a Living witness, the Holy Spirit is and scripture confirms this.

The Spirit is a living witness and the bible also says the word of God is alive (living) and active, true? The Spirit and the word agree, says the bible. Jesus said the scriptures testify of Him....that means witness. As well as the bible also says the Holy Spirit testifies of Him. Both. Bible says scripture is able to make us wise unto salvation through faith, ie, by the Spirit. The five wise virgins had oil for their lamps...ie, they had the Spirit to illuminate the word....God's word being the lamp unto our feet and light unto our path as we journey to enter into the kingdom of God and wedding feast.

Anyway, I think I will leave it there sister. It's on each one of us to understand what the spirit is saying through the word of God, if we will. Take care for now.

 

[Behold]

The belief in OSAS is a doctrine of demons to make those who believe in it to not believe the warnings.

OSAS was actually created by Heretical Jews, who accused Paul of teaching "license to sin".

So, this is an old heresy, that is designed to confuse the Christian into thinking that God's Grace, when taught correctly is "preaching License".. or "licentiousness", as Jude describes what these Heretics try to do to God Grace.

Here is the reality..

God saved us when we were "YET Sinners"... not when we were "good, and trying to live right".

So, as a SINNER< we are accepted by God.......based on The Cross of Christ, and once Accepted, our behavior that didnt prevent our Sinful Salvation to begin with........can't later prevent it from remaining if you have some flesh issues or some theology melt down.

Its is an insult to Jesus, to run around trying to prove that His Salvation, can be overcome by your behavior issue or your wrong thinking..... reader.

Lets see if anyone has their brain turned on..

If God took you, and all you had to offer him was a LIFETIME OF SINNING... and He took you, and saved you, based on the Cross....how can you be so ignorant of the Cross that you now believe that your behavior that didnt keep you from being saved, can now end your Salvation.

Its just not very smart to think that way, and what is worse is that its an Insult to God's Grace.

 

[Behold]

Oy vey. What does it mean to be cut off?

The only thing that can separate you from God, for eternity..... is to be in your sin, and die never born again.

So, the born again, is "made free from Sin".. they are "not under the law, but under Grace" and they have Eternal Life.

That means that Salvation, is not you trying to be good..... to keep from going to Hell.

Can a person who is a Christian be "cut off", and become a "castaway"..

Of course...
.and that means their Theology, has destroyed their faith, .. to the point that they will never again, understand God's Grace.
That would be a "OSAS" fanatic, who wants to argue this.... for example.
So, all they left is not related to understanding anything regarding who they have become "in Christ".

Jesus said, "apart from me, you can do nothing"... He didnt say... apart from me, you have lost your salvation.

Jesus said that if you believe in Him, you shall "never go to Hell, (never perish)'"""... so, if you want to try to find verses that you believe teach that Jesus is a liar, then thats your decision.

Paul teaches that "the Gift(s) of God are without repentance"...

1.) "without repentance" means that God will never allow them to leave you......

And Salvation is "THE GIFT of Salvation".

A lot of people who are trying to keep themselves saved because they have no Real Faith in Christ anymore ... which is to not believe HE is their Salvation, begining to end, ............can spend a lot of time looking for "how to lose my salvation , verses.".. and the devil will show you a lot of them...that to this type of person, will continue to keep their Faith broken.
THats a fact.

 

[amigo de christo]

And we must know this:
2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 (NKJV) 1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for [that Day will not come] unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

There’s only one son of perdition, and his name is Satan.

Even now my friend there are many anti christs at work whereby we KNOW it is the last time .
As you wrote on another response . They come in and will dwell amongst us
but beware for they do preach another lovespell which they call the gospel .
They can use the name of JESUS and while they claim to BELIEVE HE IS THE CHRIST
they will make it seem as though its not necessary for souls to have to BELIEVE HE IS THE CHRIST .
That is being co worker to that which is of anti christ . Always remember
that satan as do his minstirs can USE the name of JESUS but will present another jesus another gospel .
So long as we are in this world times will only get much more deceptive and persecutions will only increase against
those true lambs who did not conform to this image of what the united religions of interfaith and inclusivity claim is GOD .
IT IS NOT GOD . It is he who has always desired to be AS GOD .

 

[Ritajanice]

Yes. And the bible also says the word of God is alive and active, true?

The Spirit and the word agree, says the bible. Jesus said the scriptures testify of Him....that means witness

. As well as the bible also says the Holy Spirit testifies of Him.

Both. Bible says scripture is able to make us wise unto salvation through faith, ie, by the Spirit. The five wise virgins had oil for their lamps...ie, they had the Spirit to illuminate the word....God's word being the lamp unto our feet and light unto our path as we journey to enter into the kingdom of God and wedding feast.

Anyway, I think I will leave it there sister. It's on each one of us to understand what the spirit is saying through the word of God, if we will. Take care for now.

I think we best leave it there as well, no point going over the same old ground, when we aren’t understanding each other.

We can’t make each other see what the other sees..enjoy the rest of your day, Sis, God Bless.

 

[amigo de christo]

Nobody else can take us out of God's hand sister, that is true. But it is possible for US to crawl out of His hand. That's why the devil deceives people....because he can't take us away from the Lord, so he has to deceive and tempt people into doing that themselves. The Lord doesn't force anyone to stay in His hand. HE will never forsake us......but it's understood that is true as long as we don't forsake Him, as Amigo already pointed out that other scripture which says if we forsake Him He will forsake us. We need the whole counsel of God, not just cherry picked verses.

When i could no longer forbear i sent ........................
why did paul send this man to this certain church.
The church was under persecutions
FOR this reason , when i could no longer forbear
i sent to KNOW your faith lest by some means the tempter have tempted you and our labor be in vain .

 

[amigo de christo]

Oy vey. What does it mean to be cut off? This is not rocket science. The analogy of birth is only an analogy not literal. Trying to make a case that because a literal baby can't return to a literal womb once it's been born literally, that that therefore applies to spiritual birth........is not a valid argument. The blindness surrounding this subject is beyond belief.....but that's the nature of deception. Unfortunately it's a stronghold for many.

They will claim we are not reading it in context . But it is THEY who are not doing so but rather reading it through OSAS .
Allow me to explain . NOTICE it says THEY were CUT OFF , cut out of their own tree because of UNBELIEF
SO that means they are NOT in CHRIST , NOT IN THE TREE .
YET paul uses the same words to the church , LEST YE BE CUT OFF . but somehow they try and say IT DONT mean what IT SAYS .
This is what i mean by many read the scrips through the lens of a mans doctrine , NOT for oneself .

 

[Ritajanice]

Those who don’t abide in the vine, were never Born Again in the first place ,they have tried to infiltrate the vine, only God knows who are his, and those who aren’t his are cut off and thrown into the fire, the fakers trying to graft “ themselves” into the true Living vine.​

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John 15​

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King James Version​

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15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.
18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.
22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.
23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

 

[amigo de christo]

And one, here in this thread, finds it very, very difficult to acknowledge the Savior of the world, the Messiah, the King of kings, the Name above all names—JESUS. I just don’t get it.

you wanna see something that is gonna shock you .
Go around and remind christains even on this site and in churches
that All other religions do NOT BELIEVE JESUS IS the CHRIST thus they are lost , do not KNOW GOD
and need to repent and beleive JESUS is the CHRIST . YOU DO that and you sit back and watch
the number of folks that will in some way accuse you of being wrong , judgmental or etc .
The gospel has been replaced with this other version of the golden rule concept .
Meaning this , they actually beleive if anyone , muslim , anyone does the golden rule they are fine .
BUT HOW is one following the GOLDEN RULE , to LOVE GOD with all your heart soul etc
and love your neighbor as yourself , IF THEY LOVE NOT JESUS THE CHRIST . IF THEY LOVE NOT HIM
THEY LOVE NOT GOD . you would marvel at just how many within christendom
beleive GOD is okay with other religions so long as they have this love stuff . ITS A LIE friend .
THEY DENY HE who gave us the golden rule and go about inventing another form of the golden rule
which that form DENIES THE NEED TO BELEIVE JESUS IS THE CHRIST . which means its of anti christ , NOT GOD .

 

[Behold]

16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

So we see that Jesus is talking specifically to the apostles in these verses..

However, this does not negate that Salvation, is an Eternal Gift that cant be lost, or misplaced, or removed.

What many dont understand, is that God purchased the sinner, with the Blood of Jesus..
This means that the CHRISTian, is OWNED by God, having been purchased with the precious blood of Jesus.
And each individual Believer, is given to Jesus as His Inheritance.

Each person born again, is the FRUIT of THE Cross of Christ.. so, we are HIS... forever, because He has purchased us with His own Blood and Death.

So, all this cant ever be LOST, as its ALL OF GOD..........and the Believer, is not in control of it.

 

[amigo de christo]

Those who don’t abide in the vine, were never Born Again in the first place ,they have tried to infiltrate the vine, only God knows who are his, and those who aren’t his are cut off and thrown into the fire, the fakers trying to graft “ themselves” into the true Living vine.​

​

​

John 15​

​

King James Version​

​

​

15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.
18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.
22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.
23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

the fact about who is born again verses who was not born again cannot negate the fact
that paul warned BELIEVERS about this . We all know if they come out they were never of us .
But there is good reason why JESUS and later the apostels gave these kinds of reminders and warnings TO US .
its part of the work of the SPIRIT that helps to remind and keep the church safe .

 

[Ritajanice]

the fact about who is born again verses who was not born again cannot negate the fact
that paul warned BELIEVERS about this . We all know if they come out they were never of us .
But there is good reason why JESUS and later the apostels gave these kinds of reminders and warnings TO US .
its part of the work of the SPIRIT that helps to remind and keep the church safe .

That’s what you believe , Brother, I believe differently.

The Holy Spirit power in me, @amigo de christo keeps me in the true vine...

Keeping yourself in the vine by reading scripture is work based.

We don’t know how to keep ourselves in the true vine and if you say refer to scripture on how to keep ourselves in the true vine...I don’t agree, only the Living Holy Spirit can keep his children abiding in the true vine, that is my opinion/ belief.

That is why we must be Born Of The Spirit..

 

[Ritajanice]

16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you


My belief also.

What does John 15 verse 16 mean?
This passage simply reiterates what John and Jesus have been saying for 14 previous chapters, namely that it is His choice, His plan, His initiative that rules the destinies of men. This is not only the case for the 12 disciples, but for us today as well.

In Jesus Name, Amen!

 

[RedFan]

That’s what you believe , Brother, I believe differently.

The Holy Spirit power in me, @amigo de christo keeps me in the true vine...

Keeping yourself in the vine by reading scripture is work based.

We don’t know how to keep ourselves in the true vine and if you say refer to scripture on how to keep ourselves in the true vine...I don’t agree, only the Living Holy Spirit can keep his children abiding in the true vine, that is my opinion/ belief.

That is why we must be Born Of The Spirit..

I'm with @amigodechristo on this one. The real source of our disagreement is in Scripture itself. Different authors wrote for different purposes and different constituencies, and they did not always portray a consistent picture of how salvation works itself out in the believer.

 

[Ritajanice]

I'm with @amigodechristo on this one. The real source of our disagreement is in Scripture itself. Different authors wrote for different purposes and different constituencies, and they did not always portray a consistent picture of how salvation works itself out in the believer.

The real source of the truth comes from the Living Holy Spirit, different authors , don’t birth our spirit, neither does the Bible.

The Living Spirit births our spirit and the Bible confirms this..I stand on what the Spirit testifies to my spirit,

Spirit gives birth to spirit, you can never be un-birthed from the Spirit Of God...once Born Again by divine heart revelation, always Born Again in one’s spirit, that is where the Living seed is planted, in the heart/ spirit of his child, permanently.= Spirit gives birth to spirit= a Living spirit rebirth, no author or any bible can perform that supernatural act, it comes by divine heart revelation.

No study of any bible is required for the Spirit to perform this mighty act.

Those who have been grafted into the true vine by the Spirit of God, will NEVER be thrown into the fire.

 

[Behold]

His plan, His initiative that rules the destinies of men.

God, nor Christ, rules the free will of any human being... as if they did, then free will does not exist.

So, if that is the case, then

"let us make man in our image"... is a big fat LIE....

So, as its not a lie, and as God and Christ have free will, as does MAN, who is created in their image, then Calvinism that denies this, is of course not only a lie, but a Cross Rejecting Satanic Heresy.

Calvinism is OF THE DEVIL.

Never believe it, and never teach it, Reader.

 

[Ritajanice]

God, nor Christ, rules the free will of any human being... as if they did, then free will does not exist.

So, if that is the case, then

"let us make man in our image"... is a big fat LIE....

So, as its not a lie, and as God and Christ have free will, as does MAN, who is created in their image, then Calvinism that denies this, is of course not only a lie, but a Cross Rejecting Satanic Heresy.

Never believe it, and never teach it, Reader.

I stand by all of my posts.

A Born Again is not in their own will, they are under the authority and will of the Father.

Just as Jesus was in perfect harmony with the will of the Father.

The power of the Holy Spirit within us, brings us to understand the will of the Father, he also brings us inline with the will of the Father.

Not my will, your will be done in me Father God.

Praise God The Born Again are under your authority/ Grace and will.

In Jesus Name. Amen!

Your freewill that you speak of, makes no sense and does not resonate with my spirit.

We were chosen and predestined to do the will of the Father...God knows who will do his will....and I’m doing it ..never my will Father God...,,always your will be done in and through me, in Jesus Name, Amen!.