How many kingdoms in Daniel?

[CTK]

So no comparing Scripture with Scripture? Just your personal opinion pitted against other poster's personal opinions?

There are 5 sections to the image in Daniel 2 which would cover the time from Daniel until an outside kingdom of God makes these human governments obsolete.

So when there is no more one central government would be about the time Daniel 2 is no longer viable.

You mention the return and rebuilding of Jerusalem and the Temple. At some point, neither will be around, but the 5th kingdom will outlive that point, by many centuries.

Please show in Daniel where there are 5 kingdoms! As mentioned, Faniel was written for the Jews and the city for their return from captivity. No personal opinion, just interpret Daniel. Not Revelation or Matthew or Acts, we are interpreting Daniel and what God had Daniel write in this prophetic book to the Jews. I also stated it should be read, interpreted and studied as if we were doing so around 20 AD.

Get some rest!

 

[ewq1938]

4 kingdoms that God brought out of the sea or the earth.

The first 4 kingdoms all came from the sea of the Earth. None came from the solid ground.

 

[CTK]

5 kingdoms are mentioned in Daniel 7.

Take care.

 

[Earburner]

What recognized historical exegete(s) espouse that interpretation?

How do they identify the ten horns, little horn, and three horns in Daniel 7?

One question will determine whether you and others are on a fantasy quest in doctrinal defense, or biblical truth:
Q. Should the 2300 Day prophecy be measured and metered by "days" or by "years"?
A. The Hebrew word for "days", doesn't allow for any options to make a choice!!
Please see my post #143

 

[Earburner]

No, Scripture states the 7th head is an 8th kingdom. The 7th Kingdom on earth is not one of the 7 heads.

"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

The 7th Kingdom is declared at the 7th Trumpet. Jesus is the 7th Kingdom of all nations.

Satan is the 7th head, but not the 7th Kingdom. Satan would be an 8th kingdom after Jesus is declared King at the 7th Trumpet.

Scripture is saying there are only 7 heads, not 8 heads. The heads are mountains, which are the historical kingdoms: Babylon, Medes and Persians, Greece, Rome, the kingdom of the 2 feet/ten toes, and finally a 6th kingdom from the Reformation until now which is mortally wounded. Satan is the 7th head. Satan is the head of the dragon. Satan is the one who heals the 6th head. Satan is the 8th kingdom, after Jesus hands the world to Satan if told by God to do so.

Remember there is a woe included with each of the last 3 Trumpets. The 7th Trumpet is not a woe. The 7th Trumpet declares Jesus as the 7th Kingdom.


The 3rd woe would be that 3.5 days later, Satan is declared as the King over the 8th Kingdom. This woe would last for 42 months, and is called mystery Babylon. That is when ten individuals, the 10 horns gather their armies and join in Satan's mystery Babylon. These ten horns remove the harlot from being an influence in mystery Babylon. This means they change the perspective of Satan's Kingdom from being religious to all humanity receiving the mark, and totally dedicated to Satan worship.

"these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. And the woman which thou sawest is that great city."

Jerusalem will be stripped of all man made religions that Jerusalem will represent as the whore, which forsook God, and followed every other man made god. Leaving only total dedication to Satan, who is sitting as God on the throne of the Lamb.

Just like God hardened Pharaoh's heart, when Israel left Egypt, so God will mark and harden every heart of any human left on earth to be totally committed to Satan and be destroyed at Armageddon. No one will be excluded from this judgment on humanity by God. Only those who chop off their heads will be free from receiving this mark from God. These 10 horns will facilitate in the total reprobation of mankind, just as happened to Pharaoh in Egypt. At the end of the 42 months, the 7 vials of God's wrath will be poured out onto all who have the mark. The 2 witnesses will be laying as dead for 3.5 days, while these vials are poured out.

Let's get it straight. The kingdom of Jesus is NOT OF this world, and never will be.
Another sign in you, showing that you are following the doctrines of men.
1 Cor. 2[5]That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power [anointing] of God.

 

[ewq1938]

Let's get it straight. The kingdom of Jesus is NOT OF this world, and never will be.

Wrong. That kingdom has been here in his followers for a long time and will defacto arrive here at the second coming.

Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

Obviously The Kingdom of Jesus will be on this world since at the end of this world the bad people will be gathered from His kingdom, the world.

 

[Earburner]

What recognized historical exegete(s) espouse that interpretation?

The latter half of 1 Cor. 2:5.

How do they identify the ten horns, little horn, and three horns in Daniel 7?

As for the 10 horns, through time they have never been identified. However, today we can see that there are 18 militaristic countries in NATO of East and West Europe.
The Composite Sea beast will strictly be a Global Economic Empire, having no standing army or weapons of it's own, and therefore will appoint 10 horns (militaristic countries) to burn the "whore" with fire, and also use them for its own defense against both man and God.

There is only ONE "little horn". His name was Antiochus lV Epiphanes of the Seleucid kingdom in the 3rd beast. That prophecy WAS fulfilled.

The 3 horns in Daniel 7 were:
Ram with 2 horns.
He-goat with 1 horn between his eyes.

 

[covenantee]

One question will determine whether you and others are on a fantasy quest in doctrinal defense, or biblical truth:
Q. Should the 2300 Day prophecy be measured and metered by "days" or by "years"?
A. The Hebrew word for "days", doesn't allow for any options to make a choice!!
Please see my post #143

There's no 2300 Day prophecy in Daniel 7.

 

[covenantee]

The latter half of 1 Cor. 2:5.

You're neither recognized nor historical.

As for the 10 horns, through time they have never been identified.

I've provided their identities, based on the scholarship of recognized historical exegetes.

There is only ONE "little horn".

True.

His name was Antiochus lV Epiphanes

It was and is the Roman papacy. Antiochus lV Epiphanes was not a Roman.

The 3 horns in Daniel 7 were:
Ram with 2 horns.
He-goat with 1 horn between his eyes.

You're in the wrong chapter.

 

[Earburner]

The first 4 kingdoms all came from the sea of the Earth. None came from the solid ground.

The use of the word "sea" by God, is meaning where many people dwell.
Of course, when He uses the word "earth", God is meaning areas where there are not many people.

 

[Earburner]

You're neither recognized nor historical.

Neither was Jesus and the disciples!

I've provided their identities, based on the scholarship of recognized historical exegetes.

Of course you did. It all comes from the wisdom of men, and not from "the mind of Christ", as the Holy Spirit had said through Paul of where our faith should stand.

True.

Yes, it is true!! Antiochus lV Epiphanes was and is the only "little horn" that shall ever be.
(Please reference the 2300 days, as DAYS, and NOT YEARS.)

It was and is the Roman papacy.

Sorry, the Roman Papacy is only one of the numerous evolving manifestations of the Composite beast with10 horns.

There's no 2300 Day prophecy in Daniel 7.

Well, that is a typo* on my part, but you do know where that scripture is, and what I am talking about.
*Edit: please see Dan.8:14

 

[covenantee]

Neither was Jesus and the disciples!

Were they unrecognized and modernist?

Of course you did. It all comes from the wisdom of men, and not from "the mind of Christ", as the Holy Spirit had said through Paul of where our faith should stand.

Do you think any of the recognized historical defenders of the true faith had the mind of Christ?

Yes, it is true!! Antiochus lV Epiphanes was and is the only "little horn" that shall ever be.
(Please reference the 2300 days, as DAYS, and NOT YEARS.)

Antiochus lV Epiphanes was not a Roman, thus was not the little horn.

There are no 2300 days in Daniel 7.

Sorry, the Roman Papacy is only one of the numerous evolving manifestations of the Composite beast with10 horns.

This seems to be naught other than modernist dispensational delusional futurized fantasy.

Who are its contemporary promulgators?

 

[Earburner]

Wrong. That kingdom has been here in his followers for a long time and will defacto arrive here at the second coming.

Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

You were doing fine until the following sentence.....

Obviously The Kingdom of Jesus will be on this world since at the end of this world the bad people will be gathered from His kingdom, the world.

.....and then you fell under the spell of the doctrines and the wisdom of men.

In the KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10, please notice that the word "when" is written in two places.
The return of Jesus in all His Immortal Glory, will be a simultaneous event of the destruction of all the unsaved, and all the saved will be "changed" into the likeness of Jesus' New life of Immortality and Eternal life.

 

[ewq1938]

In the KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10, please notice that the word "when" is written in two places.
The return of Jesus in all His Immortal Glory, will be a simultaneous event of the destruction of all the unsaved

That happens LONG after the second coming. Jesus will rule over the nations first.

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

This verb is in the present tense in the Greek manuscripts so this “taking vengeance” happens during the second coming.

2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

“shall be punished” is in the FUTURE TENSE which means that the being punished with everlasting destruction ie: GWTJ/LOF is NOT happening at the second coming but is a FUTURE event after the second coming just as Premill teaches and exactly opposite of what Amill teaches.

https://biblehub. com/interlinear/2_thessalonians/1-9.htm

You can verify in the link above that the verb tisousin is in the future tense: verb tense: future indicative active.

Amill will AVOID this fact as much as possible because it destroys the false teachings it espouses!

 

[jeffweeder]

2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

“shall be punished” is in the FUTURE TENSE which means that the being punished with everlasting destruction ie: GWTJ/LOF is NOT happening at the second coming but is a FUTURE event after the second coming just as Premill teaches and exactly opposite of what Amill teaches.

Read the next verse

The presence or the Lord and the glory of his power is fully evident at his coming in a flame of fire. He comes in the Glory of his Father after all.


Matt 16
27 For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory and majesty of His Father with His angels, and then He will repay each one in accordance with what he has done.


Here is the proof...,
9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day , and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed and trusted [and confirmed in your lives].

That happens at his coming just as Amill teaches.

 

[Timtofly]

Please show in Daniel where there are 5 kingdoms! As mentioned, Faniel was written for the Jews and the city for their return from captivity. No personal opinion, just interpret Daniel. Not Revelation or Matthew or Acts, we are interpreting Daniel and what God had Daniel write in this prophetic book to the Jews. I also stated it should be read, interpreted and studied as if we were doing so around 20 AD.

Get some rest!

You are telling us what you want Scripture to say. That is your opinion.

Interpretation is opinion.

The 5 kingdoms are represented by the 5 different sections of the image.

Gold
Silver
Bronze
Iron
Iron and clay mixed.

Now you will reply with your opinion that Daniel only mentioned 4 , and there cannot be 5.

 

[Timtofly]

Let's get it straight. The kingdom of Jesus is NOT OF this world, and never will be.
Another sign in you, showing that you are following the doctrines of men.
1 Cor. 2[5]That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power [anointing] of God.

Of course the 7th Kingdom is not of this world. It is the 7th Kingdom though. That is why there are not 8 heads. The 7th Kingdom is of God.

Do you think that when the 7th Trumpet sounds, Jesus is not declared King over every nation?

 

[Earburner]

There's no 2300 Day prophecy in Daniel 7.

Please forgive my typo. I meant Dan. 8
[14] And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred [literal] days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

 

[Earburner]

Of course the 7th Kingdom is not of this world. It is the 7th Kingdom though. That is why there are not 8 heads. The 7th Kingdom is of God.

I think you mean well, but the kingdom of Christ is not going to go into perdition [destruction].
Think it through, and don't allow "the wisdom of men" in church-ianity, sway you from the mind of Christ that is within you! 1Cor. 2:5, 16.
Rev. 27[11] And the [4th] beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth [head], and is of the seven [heads], and goeth into perdition.

Do you think that when the 7th Trumpet sounds, Jesus is not declared King over every nation?

When the 7th Trumpet sounds, it will look exactly like KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10. Please notice the word "when", that is written twice in those verses. It will be a SIMULTANEOUS event of destruction for ALL the unsaved, and redemption for ALL the saved.
2 Peter 3 provides the specific details, that shall take place on THAT Day.

 

[Earburner]

That happens LONG after the second coming. Jesus will rule over the nations first.

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

This verb is in the present tense in the Greek manuscripts so this “taking vengeance” happens during the second coming.

2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

“shall be punished” is in the FUTURE TENSE which means that the being punished with everlasting destruction ie: GWTJ/LOF is NOT happening at the second coming but is a FUTURE event after the second coming just as Premill teaches and exactly opposite of what Amill teaches.

https://biblehub. com/interlinear/2_thessalonians/1-9.htm

You can verify in the link above that the verb tisousin is in the future tense: verb tense: future indicative active.

Amill will AVOID this fact as much as possible because it destroys the false teachings it espouses!

Well, since Jesus will be coming [suddenly] in [everlasting] flaming [fiery] fire, I would say that His everlasting fire will definitely ignite and burn up the entirety of this world, including the earth itself, making it into a literal lake of fiery lava.
Again, see 2 Peter 3 about that day.