How many kingdoms in Daniel?

[Timtofly]

The Textus Receptus Greek, the Catholic Vulgate and the Westcott/Hort Greek all say that there is an 8th head, who is of the 7 heads. Rev. 17:10-11

No, Scripture states the 7th head is an 8th kingdom. The 7th Kingdom on earth is not one of the 7 heads.

"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

The 7th Kingdom is declared at the 7th Trumpet. Jesus is the 7th Kingdom of all nations.

Satan is the 7th head, but not the 7th Kingdom. Satan would be an 8th kingdom after Jesus is declared King at the 7th Trumpet.

Scripture is saying there are only 7 heads, not 8 heads. The heads are mountains, which are the historical kingdoms: Babylon, Medes and Persians, Greece, Rome, the kingdom of the 2 feet/ten toes, and finally a 6th kingdom from the Reformation until now which is mortally wounded. Satan is the 7th head. Satan is the head of the dragon. Satan is the one who heals the 6th head. Satan is the 8th kingdom, after Jesus hands the world to Satan if told by God to do so.

Remember there is a woe included with each of the last 3 Trumpets. The 7th Trumpet is not a woe. The 7th Trumpet declares Jesus as the 7th Kingdom.


The 3rd woe would be that 3.5 days later, Satan is declared as the King over the 8th Kingdom. This woe would last for 42 months, and is called mystery Babylon. That is when ten individuals, the 10 horns gather their armies and join in Satan's mystery Babylon. These ten horns remove the harlot from being an influence in mystery Babylon. This means they change the perspective of Satan's Kingdom from being religious to all humanity receiving the mark, and totally dedicated to Satan worship.

"these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. And the woman which thou sawest is that great city."

Jerusalem will be stripped of all man made religions that Jerusalem will represent as the whore, which forsook God, and followed every other man made god. Leaving only total dedication to Satan, who is sitting as God on the throne of the Lamb.

Just like God hardened Pharaoh's heart, when Israel left Egypt, so God will mark and harden every heart of any human left on earth to be totally committed to Satan and be destroyed at Armageddon. No one will be excluded from this judgment on humanity by God. Only those who chop off their heads will be free from receiving this mark from God. These 10 horns will facilitate in the total reprobation of mankind, just as happened to Pharaoh in Egypt. At the end of the 42 months, the 7 vials of God's wrath will be poured out onto all who have the mark. The 2 witnesses will be laying as dead for 3.5 days, while these vials are poured out.

 

[Timtofly]

What were the names of their ten horns/kingdoms, and which horn/kingdom was the little horn, and which three horns/kingdoms did it pluck up?

No kingdoms were plucked up. Rome is an only individual kingdom.

Why would you change your mind, if one pointed out that the beast in Daniel 7 was covering the evolution of Rome itself between a kingdom, a Republic, an Empire, and then falling apart into no longer being a single authority? Would you even accept that Rome moved east and western Rome ceased to exist as your list of ten separate toes started to form so the 5th kingdom could replace the 4th from Daniel 2?

Do you even accept a 5th kingdom distinct as the 2 feet separate from the 2 legs? Why can you not exegete Daniel 7 as only applying to the two legs and not even covering the 2 feet?

A horn is not a kingdom. A toe is a kingdom. Daniel never dreamt 3 toes were cut off and another little toe took over. That seemed to have happened, but Daniel never got that far in history.

The ten horns are only ten rulers of the Roman Empire. You can look them up, since you seem to be an expert on the time between 66AD and 70AD. The 3.5 years of your "Great Tribulation".

"I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;"

You seem to claim you know who "the Prince" was who destroyed "the saints".

Then you say the same horn did one thing in one post, and then another thing hundreds of years later in another post.

How can you say the papacy was a horn that uprooted 3 other kingdoms? You don't even list the papacy as part of your list of kingdoms.

You hide behind the generalization of the Reformers as being some historical experts on an erroneous theory. How can one of your kingdoms be both the little horn at the same time the papacy is the little horn? Have you posted that one of those ten kingdoms in your list is the literal papacy?

Neither of your explanations can be the little horn, and the little horn would not have to literally kill 3 horns. It is a dream sequence.

3 horns just have to be eradicated to allow for this little horn to even be a viable candidate as a horn.

The ten toes are not the ten horns, because the feet are the 5th Kingdom, and Daniel never specified a fifth kingdom as a dream. Now Daniel had a dream in chapter 10.

"In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a thing was revealed unto Daniel, whose name was called Belteshazzar; and the thing was true, but the time appointed was long: and he understood the thing, and had understanding of the vision."

Daniel never wrote that vision down.

In chapter 11 the Angel explained about Greece a third time, after chapters 2, 8, and now in 11.

Chapters 10 and 11 are not the same. Chapter 10 was given in the 3rd year of Cyrus. Chapter 11 was given in the 1st year of Darius.

Daniel was still alive and under the consolidation of the Medes into the Persian Empire. He was aware of these first 3 kingdoms from the image in chapter 2. He lived during the turmoil of Babylon, being sacked by the Medes and then the establishment of the Persian Empire. He did not dream about those events. But he was troubled over and over again about the next 500 years.

We know that he could not get any answers at some points, because the battle in spiritual places over the rulers of human government were being hashed out during this period of transition between Babylon, the Medes, and the Persians.

You need to figure out the differences between Rome as the 4th kingdom, and your ten toes as the 5th kingdom. Giving you a list of the first 10 Roman Ceasars, won't change your mind. Obviously you still have homework to do on the point.

 

[Earburner]

To all:
There is an obvious and extreme mismatch of interpretations here, not because of the entire context of Daniel, but rather a direct abuse of the literal and biblical meaning, concerning the 2300 Day prophecy, as described in Daniel 8:14
[13] Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
[14] And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Apparently, there are those here who are in total disagreement with the Hebrew word and meaning of the word "days" in verse 14, and are misapplying a "day to year" principal of prophetic time, in order to fabricate a false concept of time, so that it can accommodate their pet doctrine.

I suggest that there be a re-study on the word "days" in Dan. 8:14, by looking into the "Strongs" reference numbers: H1242; H6153, and accept the truthful meaning and application of the word "days", as found in it's context in all of Dan. ch. 8.

 

[covenantee]

No kingdoms were plucked up. Rome is an only individual kingdom.

Why would you change your mind, if one pointed out that the beast in Daniel 7 was covering the evolution of Rome itself between a kingdom, a Republic, an Empire, and then falling apart into no longer being a single authority? Would you even accept that Rome moved east and western Rome ceased to exist as your list of ten separate toes started to form so the 5th kingdom could replace the 4th from Daniel 2?

Do you even accept a 5th kingdom distinct as the 2 feet separate from the 2 legs? Why can you not exegete Daniel 7 as only applying to the two legs and not even covering the 2 feet?

A horn is not a kingdom. A toe is a kingdom. Daniel never dreamt 3 toes were cut off and another little toe took over. That seemed to have happened, but Daniel never got that far in history.

The ten horns are only ten rulers of the Roman Empire. You can look them up, since you seem to be an expert on the time between 66AD and 70AD. The 3.5 years of your "Great Tribulation".

"I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;"

You seem to claim you know who "the Prince" was who destroyed "the saints".

Then you say the same horn did one thing in one post, and then another thing hundreds of years later in another post.

How can you say the papacy was a horn that uprooted 3 other kingdoms? You don't even list the papacy as part of your list of kingdoms.

You hide behind the generalization of the Reformers as being some historical experts on an erroneous theory. How can one of your kingdoms be both the little horn at the same time the papacy is the little horn? Have you posted that one of those ten kingdoms in your list is the literal papacy?

Neither of your explanations can be the little horn, and the little horn would not have to literally kill 3 horns. It is a dream sequence.

3 horns just have to be eradicated to allow for this little horn to even be a viable candidate as a horn.

The ten toes are not the ten horns, because the feet are the 5th Kingdom, and Daniel never specified a fifth kingdom as a dream. Now Daniel had a dream in chapter 10.

"In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a thing was revealed unto Daniel, whose name was called Belteshazzar; and the thing was true, but the time appointed was long: and he understood the thing, and had understanding of the vision."

Daniel never wrote that vision down.

In chapter 11 the Angel explained about Greece a third time, after chapters 2, 8, and now in 11.

Chapters 10 and 11 are not the same. Chapter 10 was given in the 3rd year of Cyrus. Chapter 11 was given in the 1st year of Darius.

Daniel was still alive and under the consolidation of the Medes into the Persian Empire. He was aware of these first 3 kingdoms from the image in chapter 2. He lived during the turmoil of Babylon, being sacked by the Medes and then the establishment of the Persian Empire. He did not dream about those events. But he was troubled over and over again about the next 500 years.

We know that he could not get any answers at some points, because the battle in spiritual places over the rulers of human government were being hashed out during this period of transition between Babylon, the Medes, and the Persians.

You need to figure out the differences between Rome as the 4th kingdom, and your ten toes as the 5th kingdom. Giving you a list of the first 10 Roman Ceasars, won't change your mind. Obviously you still have homework to do on the point.

Expected nonsense confirmed.

 

[Earburner]

No, Scripture states the 7th head is an 8th kingdom. The 7th Kingdom on earth is not one of the 7 heads.

I am not saying that. I am saying that the 8th head is a make up of the 7 heads as the futuristic Composite Sea beast having 10 horns of Rev. 13:1-3 and 17:12, 16.

The big problem here is those who interpret the 2300 days as being literal days, and those who want to interpret/convert the 2300 days as being literal years.
With that type of opposition towards each other, "there will be NO peace in the Valley!"

Please see my post #143.

 

[ewq1938]

The Textus Receptus Greek, the Catholic Vulgate and the Westcott/Hort Greek all say that there is an 8th head, who is of the 7 heads. Rev. 17:10-11

No, they speak of consecutive kings through history, not the 7 mountains that exist all at the same time. Do you not understand the difference between consecutive and non-consecutive?

There is never an 8th mountain.

The 7-8 kings in Rev 17 come one at a time with an exception to the 7th and 8th. Example: king 1 is not alive when king 3 is.
The opposite is true of the beast's 7 heads which are mountains. All 7 exist at the same time!

 

[Timtofly]

Expected nonsense confirmed.

So you were not looking for an answer? I guess I did not waste time by giving into your demands.

 

[CTK]

Okay, I believe it is time to call time out and start over. It is not uncommon for these topics to go wide left or right and never come back.

So, if you do not mind, here is the original question WITH an additional comment tagged on.

How many kingdoms are found in the Book of Daniel (NOT REVELATION)? The Book of Daniel was written for the Jews and Jerusalem (NOT FOLKS 2000 YEARS IN THE FUTURE).

COMMENTS:

1) It seems clear (to me) how many kingdoms are stated in these chapters, with 3 of the 4 that are literally identified.
2) It seems that the literal number of kingdoms of 4 is given to us.
3) It seems these 4 kingdoms were actual kingdoms in our history as well as the actual kings, conflicts and timing that occurred.
4) It seems God is having the reader follow His people as they travel to captivity in Babylon to the end of the 70 weeks of years prophecy which would literally end in 33/34 AD.
5) It seems that these verses prophesied His people’s movements and events WITHIN this 490 year “restoration back to their city.”
6) It seems that God will incorporate the coming of His Messiah WITHIN the last week of the prophecy.
7) It seems that God will also prophesied the consequences to His people and city for rejecting and crucifying their Messiah.
8) It seems the Book of Daniel was to be read, interpreted and studied by His people after they returned to Jerusalem. They would also interpret and expect to see their Messiah arrive when He did (but they did not recognize Him).
9) It seems that most of the Book of Daniel focuses on the Jews as they travel from Babylon to the first coming of the Messiah.
10) It seems that God will also reveal what would take place AFTER the cross during the first 500 years of His church.

So, please leave out Revelation - treat this Book of Daniel as though you were a Jew sitting by the pool with your friends in 20AD trying to understand and interpret Daniel. And remember, Daniel is all you need and have (with the exception of the Tanakh) to understand Daniel.

 

[Earburner]

No, they speak of consecutive kings through history, not the 7 mountains that exist all at the same time. Do you not understand the difference between consecutive and non-consecutive?

You don't understand. The Composite beast with 10 horns (Rev. 13:1-3) IS NOT the Roman Empire, but it is within it, being that of the 7th head of itself having 10 horns. It was that head that was wounded by a sword, yet continued to live, by evolving into numerous manifestations through time.

It is now on the brink of it's final showing of being the 8th head, (who is OF the 7) a Global ECONOMIC Empire for a period of 42 months, by use of the MoB, whereby no man might BUY or SELL.

 

[Earburner]

Okay, I believe it is time to call time out and start over. It is not uncommon for these topics to go wide left or right and never come back.

So, if you do not mind, here is the original question WITH an additional comment tagged on.

How many kingdoms are found in the Book of Daniel (NOT REVELATION)? The Book of Daniel was written for the Jews and Jerusalem (NOT FOLKS 2000 YEARS IN THE FUTURE).

COMMENTS:

1) It seems clear (to me) how many kingdoms are stated in these chapters, with 3 of the 4 that are literally identified.
2) It seems that the literal number of kingdoms of 4 is given to us.
3) It seems these 4 kingdoms were actual kingdoms in our history as well as the actual kings, conflicts and timing that occurred.
4) It seems God is having the reader follow His people as they travel to captivity in Babylon to the end of the 70 weeks of years prophecy which would literally end in 33/34 AD.
5) It seems that these verses prophesied His people’s movements and events WITHIN this 490 year “restoration back to their city.”
6) It seems that God will incorporate the coming of His Messiah WITHIN the last week of the prophecy.
7) It seems that God will also prophesied the consequences to His people and city for rejecting and crucifying their Messiah.
8) It seems the Book of Daniel was to be read, interpreted and studied by His people after they returned to Jerusalem. They would also interpret and expect to see their Messiah arrive when He did (but they did not recognize Him).
9) It seems that most of the Book of Daniel focuses on the Jews as they travel from Babylon to the first coming of the Messiah.
10) It seems that God will also reveal what would take place AFTER the cross during the first 500 years of His church.

So, please leave out Revelation - treat this Book of Daniel as though you were a Jew sitting by the pool with your friends in 20AD trying to understand and interpret Daniel. And remember, Daniel is all you need and have (with the exception of the Tanakh) to understand Daniel.

See my post #143.

 

[WitnessX]

The eight hidden Kingdom is rising now, the reborn Roman Empire. Its wheels turning and gathering steam.

 

[CTK]

See my post #143.

No, you see my post #148.

 

[WitnessX]

Saints be ready, persecution is certain. You must Overcome so you do not die a second death.

 

[Timtofly]

I am not saying that. I am saying that the 8th head is a make up of the 7 heads as the futuristic Composite Sea beast having 10 horns of Rev. 13:1-3 and 17:12, 16.

The big problem here is those who interpret the 2300 days as being literal days, and those who want to interpret/convert the 2300 days as being literal years.
With that type of opposition towards each other, "there will be NO peace in the Valley!"

Please see my post #143.

Which is also the dragon in Revelation 12.

When Jesus was born, 3 heads had fallen, and the 4th head was just getting started.

The 5th head was still future and the 6th head was not on the scene nor had a deadly wound.

At the 7th Trumpet, the 6th head was no longer viable, as Jesus after the Second Coming is now the 7th Kingdom, announced as the event in Revelation 11:15.

The wording in Revelation 17 is about the end of the 6th Kingdom, and the 3.5 day length of the 7th Kingdom, and now Satan has been allowed as the 8th kingdom over all nation's on earth.

The 8th kingdom would start after 3.5 days, during the week of the 7th Trumpet. There are no 8 heads. Jesus is not the 8th head. The 7 headed beast is about Satan and human government.

The 7th Trumpet is the declaration of the 7th Kingdom. That was the declared end of fallen man's corruptible government. Now the world was under the authority of God.

It is only by God's will and plan that Satan is even allowed an extended 42 months.

That is why the beast/Satan is the 8th kingdom but the 7th head of the historical beast.

 

[ewq1938]

You don't understand. The Composite beast with 10 horns (Rev. 13:1-3) IS NOT the Roman Empire, but it is within it, being that of the 7th head of itself having 10 horns. It was that head that was wounded by a sword, yet continued to live, by evolving into numerous manifestations through time.

It is now on the brink of it's final showing of being the 8th head, (who is OF the 7) a Global ECONOMIC Empire for a period of 42 months, by use of the MoB, whereby no man might BUY or SELL.

There is no 8th head in the bible. You are spewing out non-sense from the religion of church-ianity (theology not based on what the bible teaches).

 

[ewq1938]

1) It seems clear (to me) how many kingdoms are stated in these chapters, with 3 of the 4 that are literally identified.
2) It seems that the literal number of kingdoms of 4 is given to us.

In Daniel 7 there are FIVE kingdoms mentioned.

Dan 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
Dan 7:4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

FIRST KINGDOM


Dan 7:5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

SECOND KINGDOM




Dan 7:6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

THIRD KINGDOM




Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

FOURTH KINGDOM



Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
The Son of Man Is Given Dominion
Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.


FIFTH KINGDOM

There are 4 beast kingdoms of the enemy and one kingdom of God.

 

[covenantee]

You don't understand. The Composite beast with 10 horns (Rev. 13:1-3) IS NOT the Roman Empire, but it is within it, being that of the 7th head of itself having 10 horns. It was that head that was wounded by a sword, yet continued to live, by evolving into numerous manifestations through time.

It is now on the brink of it's final showing of being the 8th head, (who is OF the 7) a Global ECONOMIC Empire for a period of 42 months, by use of the MoB, whereby no man might BUY or SELL.

What recognized historical exegete(s) espouse that interpretation?

How do they identify the ten horns, little horn, and three horns in Daniel 7?

 

[Timtofly]

So, please leave out Revelation.

So no comparing Scripture with Scripture? Just your personal opinion pitted against other poster's personal opinions?

There are 5 sections to the image in Daniel 2 which would cover the time from Daniel until an outside kingdom of God makes these human governments obsolete.

So when there is no more one central government would be about the time Daniel 2 is no longer viable.

You mention the return and rebuilding of Jerusalem and the Temple. At some point, neither will be around, but the 5th kingdom will outlive that point, by many centuries.

 

[CTK]

In Daniel 7 there are FIVE kingdoms mentioned.

Dan 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
Dan 7:4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

FIRST KINGDOM


Dan 7:5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

SECOND KINGDOM




Dan 7:6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

THIRD KINGDOM




Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

FOURTH KINGDOM



Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
The Son of Man Is Given Dominion
Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.


FIFTH KINGDOM

There are 4 beast kingdoms of the enemy and one kingdom of God.

4 kingdoms that God brought out of the sea or the earth.

 

[ewq1938]

4 kingdoms that God brought out of the sea or the earth.

5 kingdoms are mentioned in Daniel 7.