What was Paul's thorn in the flesh?

[Bruce-Leiter]

1a. Since the Lord's purpose in sending a messenger of satan to attack his body was to prevent Paul from boasting, and boasting is a sin, and God's will for us is our sanctification, it would make no sense for the same Lord to have sent a messenger of satan to cause Paul to sin by being filled with sexual desire.

1b. Romans 7 describes the life of a Jew (Ro 7:1) in the flesh (Ro 7:5), and being "mastered" (made a slave) by sin because he is "under the Law" (Ro 6:14), but Christians are "not in the flesh but in the spirit" (Ro 8:9) : Romans 7 does not describe Paul's life as a Christian.

2a. The "messenger of satan" attacked Paul's body--this may refer to his having had poor vision :
i. Gal 4:15For I testify to you that, if possible, you would have gouged out your eyes and given them to me.
ii. Gal 6:11See with what large letters I am writing to you with my own hand.

2b. Since it doesn't make sense that poor vision would've kept Paul from boasting, "thorn in my side" may refer to the constant resistance to his teachings (the revelations he would've boasted about) : "thorn in your side" is a phrase from Torah referring to idolaters in the Promised Land (left alive--they were to wipe them out so that they would not become thorns in their sides), so it may refer to the "idolatry" of the churches sowed in them by the "idolaters" (eg, Judaizers : "this persuasion does not come from Him Who calls you" (Gal 5:8) means the Galatians, for instance, were committing idolatry (1 Jn 3:23 says God's command is to believe in the Name of God's Son and love others : there is no command against idolatry, but loving others is the second greatest commandment, thus believing in the Name of God's Son takes the place/fulfills the greatest command to love God and have no others gods before Him, thus veering from the faith would be "idolatry"), because they were "giving heed to doctrines of demons" (1 Ti 4:1) (and idols "are demons" (1 Co 10:20) : submitting to the false doctrine/false Gospel of a demon is idolatry), whereby they "wickedly depart from... God" (Ps 18:21), as Paul says, "I am astonished you are so quickly deserting Him Who calls you in the grace of Christ and are going after another Gospel" (Gal 1:6)), but Paul so closely identifies with the members of the churches that he considers this "attack" on the church as an attack on his own self (just as Christ asked Paul, "Why do you persecute Me?" when Paul persecuted His Church).
That said, I'm not entirely satisfied with these answers (2a and 2b); if anyone has a better answer, please share it.

@ChristinaL @Bruce-Leiter

My feeling is that we shouldn't seek to find out what Paul's "thorn" but instead how to deal with the "thorns" that God gives us. This thread asks the wrong question.

 

[marks]

My feeling is that we shouldn't seek to find out what Paul's "thorn" but instead how to deal with the "thorns" that God gives us. This thread asks the wrong question.

It's an easy question, and the answer can encourage us.

God told the Israelites that if they did not destroy all the inhabitants of the promised land they would be thorns in their sides, and Paul was likewise given a thorn in his flesh, messengers of Satan sent to beat him. This was in the Jews who would follow Paul around, stirring up the locals against him, getting him beaten and put in prison and whatever else they did.

So when you find yourself continually harrassed, be encouraged, this too serves it's purpose.

Your question is also valid, I think, but if you want an informed answer, it's better to understand the original situation of which Paul wrote.

Much love!

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

It's an easy question, and the answer can encourage us.

God told the Israelites that if they did not destroy all the inhabitants of the promised land they would be thorns in their sides, and Paul was likewise given a thorn in his flesh, messengers of Satan sent to beat him. This was in the Jews who would follow Paul around, stirring up the locals against him, getting him beaten and put in prison and whatever else they did.

So when you find yourself continually harrassed, be encouraged, this too serves it's purpose.

Your question is also valid, I think, but if you want an informed answer, it's better to understand the original situation of which Paul wrote.

Much love!

What you say is true, but it doesn't go far enough. The "thorn" was "a messenger of Satan," according to Paul. Satan attacks different believers in various ways, sometimes physically, as he did Job, and other times in his relationships, as he also did to Job.

 

[GracePeace]

My feeling is that we shouldn't seek to find out what Paul's "thorn" but instead how to deal with the "thorns" that God gives us. This thread asks the wrong question.

It's an interesting question. It's a good edifying discussion, in my experience.

 

[face2face]

There's been many thorns in the side of those who endeavor to live godly. Edom had been a thorn in the side of Judea (Amos 1:11) and for Paul whether it was a health issue or impediment of some sort, or the Judaizes who plague him wherever he went it was not taken away because only through suffering can one enter the Kingdom of God on Earth.

F2F

 

[face2face]

What you say is true, but it doesn't go far enough. The "thorn" was "a messenger of Satan," according to Paul. Satan attacks different believers in various ways, sometimes physically, as he did Job, and other times in his relationships, as he also did to Job.

Notions running away with you again?

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

It's an interesting question. It's a good edifying discussion, in my experience.

How edifying can it be, when there is no real answer to its meaning?

 

[GracePeace]

How edifying can it be, when there is no real answer to its meaning?

When the topic is discussed, people dig in to the text. I was edified by the discussion.

 

[Fred J]

Galatians 4:
13. Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the Gospel unto you at the first.
14. And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of GOD, even as Christ Jesus.

1 Corinthians 2:
3. And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.

Paul probably went through some physical weakness and ailment, as satan's angel was sent to buffet him.

Shalom in Jesus name

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

When the topic is discussed, people dig in to the text. I was edified by the discussion.

Okay. I'm not edified when this forum censors me for even mentioning the 3-in-1 nature of God. I suggested that they should banish argumentative people instead of topics like the heart of Christian faith, the Trinity, but I have left this forum except for my responses to some of my posts. May God bless you, GracePeace!

 

[GracePeace]

Okay. I'm not edified when this forum censors me for even mentioning the 3-in-1 nature of God. I suggested that they should banish argumentative people instead of topics like the heart of Christian faith, the Trinity, but I have left this forum except for my responses to some of my posts. May God bless you, GracePeace!

I don't know why they don't allow discussions on the issue, but they have to have their reasons. Sorry about that.

God bless you! "Grace and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ!"

 

[Stumpmaster]

Okay. I'm not edified when this forum censors me for even mentioning the 3-in-1 nature of God. I suggested that they should banish argumentative people instead of topics like the heart of Christian faith, the Trinity, but I have left this forum except for my responses to some of my posts. May God bless you, GracePeace!

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