What of the millions of ex-Christians who thought they were born again?
I abandoned my faith
- Thread starter KUWN
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
What of the millions of ex-Christians who thought they were born again?
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
There is something to that. But we probably can't make a solid statement that no one leaves only because of personal hurt.
You understand that you are free to have a relationship with God outside of the church, correct?
[
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
That's a good question.
Here's one of my topics addressing the question.
DECONSTRUCTION - How far is too far?
This is somewhat of a follow-up to my previous topic from June 23, 2023: https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/is-there-a-cure-for-my-religious-upbringing-other-than-atheism-i-mean.56346/ Here's another video that talks specifically about the process of deconstruction that Sara Martin went...
www.christianityboard.com
[
Behold
Well-Known Member
The only proof you are a CHRISTian, is that you are born again.
So, that does not change, as its a spiritual birth.
If later, you become confused and faith ruined by some cult, or some misunderstanding regarding your Salvation, then that is just a "thinking issue".. and nothing more.
Rock solid: No one leaves only only because of personal hurt!
Do you stop watching movies because you saw a bad movie? People don't stop things because of A bad experience unless they're already generally dissatisfied.
Why weren't people fleeing the Church in such large numbers for most of the last 2000 years? Did no one ever have their feeling hurt until lately?
People leave Church because churches are bad. There are no other reasons involving a church. One of those things that make churches bad is the Christian commitment to denying reality, such as their churches are bad. The more desperate churches get for members, the worse they become with their short-sighted, self-righteous strategies.
I did, and I’ve counseled quite a few who did.
I have, with rare exception, stopped watching new movies because of their content.
There’s a lot of truth in that.
How do you define “the Church”?
There are other reasons.
Not so.
There is no Christian commitment to denying reality.
There are churches that are desperate to get members, but churches should never be desperate to get members.
P.S.
Welcome to the forum.
Last edited:
I watched the video. She talked about Cambodia without mentioning that Atheism produced those skulls she showed.That's a good question.
Here's one of my topics addressing the question.
DECONSTRUCTION - How far is too far?
This is somewhat of a follow-up to my previous topic from June 23, 2023: https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/is-there-a-cure-for-my-religious-upbringing-other-than-atheism-i-mean.56346/ Here's another video that talks specifically about the process of deconstruction that Sara Martin went...
[
Absolutely, the Evangelical Church set her up to lose her faith. But, instead of accepting the deserved blame, Evangelicals prefer to pretend she had a bad experience, or something else, that doesn't condemn their Church. Ex-Christians themselves fail to place the blame were it belong, unaware that they were setup to fail.
For example, She thought her prayers got her a job and then she hated the job. Her Evangelical god was suppose to make her life great. And, when it wasn't great, her faith cracked. Her pastor(s) lied to her.
Logically, you can't lose your salvation (plenty of people can use illogic to disagree). Yet, plenty of ex-Christians can testify that they were sure they were saved, or "born again", at one point. So, you can't know you are saved. You can only believe you are saved. And, looking in from the outside, I'd say there's a lot of people who are sure they're saved but certainly are not, if for no other reason than their commitment to destroying Christianity.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Would you put yourself in that boat?
Thanks for watching the video. I should check in to see what she's doing now.
[
People leave the Church (universal) because churches (assemblies) are bad. Any reason an ex-Christian gives you boils down to churches are bad.
You generally don't watch movies because you are generally dissatisfied with them, not because you had a "bad experience" with a movie. The "bad experience", like any other reason an ex-Christian gives, boils down to churches are bad.
A typical Evangelical church treats Christians as consumers. The pastor's sermon is conscious act of fraud (meaningless sermons delivered as if they had meaning). And, the people there spend their time trying to convince others in their church that they're righteous (without being righteous). To deny this is to deny reality. To deny that the changes in the churches over the past 50 or 100 years play a role in people leaving is a monumental act of denial of reality. To deny that Evangelical churches are setting up Christians to lose their faith is nothing less than a denial of reality.
All churches are desperate for new members, either by the greed of the pastor or the graying of the congregation. Thousands of churches close every year. The most successful Evangelical churches just have the most skilled confidence men behind their pulpits. The most successful Evangelical churches also exit Christians the fastest from the faith.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
They made a U-turn and got back on the highway to hell
Hilarious!..... so people can turn away from the Lord, go back to living in sin.... and you think they are still saved????
This sort of doctrine really gets satan and his demons excited because.... it's FALSE DOCTRINE authored by satan.
I'd imagine the devil is very happy to see that you support his lies and deceptions.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
That's not what the Word of the Lord says.... not knowing God's Word WILL cause you problems
Habakkuk 2:4
the just shall live by his faith
Hebrews 10:38
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Behold
Well-Known Member
No born again Christian will ever go to Hell, as all the born again are "in Christ' and Christ is not going to Hell.
All the born again are "ONE with God" and God is not going to Hell.
There are no Christians in Hell.
There are no Christ rejectors, never born again, on their way to Heaven.
God does not save anyone because of how they Behave.
Didnt you know?
Welcome to Salvation... "its the GIft of Salvation".
So, that means that behavior has no being on becoming a Christian.. so, what cant cause you to become a Christian, can't stop you from being one later.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
I think you are being too hard on the church. There are good churches and good pastors.
And lots of attendees that are there for the right reasons. I don't like the church in general, but I do like my own church.
Good folks doing good work. I certainly don't agree with all the doctrine, but that's my choice.
[
Experience has shown me that that’s not true.
That’s partly true. I still enjoy many old movies but I don’t have time to watch them much anymore. It’s not that they’re bad; it’s that I’m busy, have other and higher priorities.
That’s atypical of the sermons which I’ve heard their pastors deliver.
You’re generalizing and not allowing for Christian growth.
Hardly.
There are many reasons that people leave churches.
See above. I’m not buying your atheist perspective, and I doubt that many theists will. Those who do are closer to you than they are to God and the Messiah.
Churches that are following Jesus shouldn’t ever be desperate for new members. The church will always exist somewhere in the world.
I hope you’re not suggesting to hour readers that all pastors are greedy.
A greedy pastor is an unqualified pastor and should be removed from the pulpit. Such a person should never have been in the position to begin with.
I don’t speak for all pastors, or for any pastor other than myself. While I’m not opposed to pastors being financially compensated for their work, I was in a position where I was able to decline any kind of compensation.
A greedy pastor - there are some - is a charlatan.
Congregations come and go. Aging church members should not be desperate for their local congregation to continue. Those that are have forgotten why the church exists and who provides for it.
Yes. Christianity goes on, and always will.
Success isn’t defined by the number of people who attend a church.
As much as you might like to see Christians exiting the faith as success, it isn’t.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Certainly you can "Know" you are saved.
You "Know" this, because you have received "Eternal Life." IF< you are born again and are not just water baptized and religious.
Jesus said.. "ALL that believe in Me.. I give unto you, ETERNAL LIFE, and you shall never go to Hell, (Perish)."""
So, how can you KNOW that is True? .......... = Its because Jesus told you.
Also, John said.."you can KNOW that you have Eternal Life"..
ETERNAL LIFE< is to be "in Christ", born again, as "one with God", and that is : Salvation.... Its "the GIFT of Salvation".
Last edited:
That video should by watched by every Evangelical leader, and appreciated for her sincerity and accuracy. They should take it constructively. But, I don't think they care. They're in Christianity just for the short-term benefit to themselves (money).
I suspect she's more an Atheist than ever. If she connected to some good Christians and a good church, she might have regained her faith. But, I can't find a good church, so I doubt she can.
Just about everyone (not dragged in) likes their church and thinks there are good folks there. Liking your church doesn't mean it's a good church.
Too hard on churches? The historically unprecedented decline in church membership suggests I'm not being too hard.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Agree. There is a major disconnect in the church about deconstruction.
True story. I was in a small home group at my church when the group leader
was talking in casual conversation about someone he knew that was deconstructing.
He was shaking his head in disbelief that someone would go down that path.
I wanted to say to him that I was headed down that path, but decided to wait until
a more appropriate time to share that, if at all.
I couldn't find Sarah's video on YouTube. But I did find her website.
I need to spend some time with it.
https://www.sara-martin.com
I found a reaction video that was a fair response to Sarah's video.
[
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Given that trajectory, where do you suppose Christianity is headed?
Can the Body of Christ survive without the institutional church?
Jesus was quoted as saying he would build his church and the gates of hell would not prevail against it.
(a much misunderstood verse in my view) I prefer the word "prevail" to "not overcome it." (opposite meaning)
Matthew 16:18 NIV
And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[b] will not overcome it.
[
Similar threads
