The 24 elders in Revelation

[KUWN]

Rev 4.4 is the first mention of the 24 elders and they represent the Church based on their description.

2 At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it.
3 And the one who sat there had the appearance of jasper and ruby. A rainbow that shone like an emerald encircled the throne.
4 Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white (see Rev 3.5) and had crowns of gold on their heads.

These 24 Elders are identified by their sitting on the thrones, dressed in white. and wearing crowns. Some feel these are angels but angels do not sit in the presence of God, nor do angels wear crowns. The Church on the other hand does sit on the thrones in heaven (Eph 2.6 for example). The bride who makes herself ready in heaven is described as wearing white (Rev 19.8) which represent the righteous acts. And of course the Church is promised crowns (Rev 2.10), which are their rewards.

Also, the OT believers aren't in the Trib until the 2nd Coming.

So, the 24 Elders (the Church) are in heaven during the Tribulation, which requires a pre trib rapture/translation. Obviously this is not the teachings of the post trib position or the mid trib position or the pre wrath position.

 

[Douggg]

Rev 4.4 is the first mention of the 24 elders and they represent the Church based on their description.

2 At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it.
3 And the one who sat there had the appearance of jasper and ruby. A rainbow that shone like an emerald encircled the throne.
4 Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white (see Rev 3.5) and had crowns of gold on their heads.

These 24 Elders are identified by their sitting on the thrones, dressed in white. and wearing crowns. Some feel these are angels but angels do not sit in the presence of God, nor do angels wear crowns. The Church on the other hand does sit on the thrones in heaven (Eph 2.6 for example). The bride who makes herself ready in heaven is described as wearing white (Rev 19.8) which represent the righteous acts. And of course the Church is promised crowns (Rev 2.10), which are their rewards.

Also, the OT believers aren't in the Trib until the 2nd Coming.

So, the 24 Elders (the Church) are in heaven during the Tribulation, which requires a pre trib rapture/translation. Obviously this is not the teachings of the post trib position or the mid trib position or the pre wrath position.

The 24 elders were already in heaven when John was called up to heaven. So them being in heaven already does not indicate a pre-70th week rapture, nor does it eliminate the possibility of a pre-70th week rapture..

 

[KUWN]

The 24 elders were already in heaven when John was called up to heaven. So them being in heaven already does not indicate a pre-70th week rapture, nor does it eliminate the possibility of a pre-70th week rapture..

The point is that the Church is in heaven before the Trib begins. I don't know how you can have the Church in heaven before the Tribulation is presented and that not indicate a pre-70th week rapture. When do you think the Church is Raptured in relation to the 70th week?

 

[Douggg]

The point is that the Church is in heaven before the Trib begins. I don't know how you can have the Church in heaven before the Tribulation is presented and that not indicate a pre-70th week rapture. When do you think the Church is Raptured in relation to the 70th week?

The entire 70th week is not "tribulation". For much of the first half the world will be saying "peace and safety"

Regarding the timing of the rapture/resurrection, my view is that it could indeed take place pre-70th week, but not necessarily.

The rapture/resurrection must take place before the Day of the Lord begins, which begins when the Antichrist does the sit-in act in the temple of God, claiming to be have achieved God-hood. The Antichrist does that act around three years into the 70th week. We don't have enough information to know the exact day during the 70th week. The timing is like a thief in the night, 1Thessalonians5:2.

I describe my view as the "anytime rapture view". i.e. anytime between right this very second until the day the Antichrist commits the sit-in act, also known as the transgression of desolation in Daniel 8:12-13.

Here is a chart I made of my "anytime rapture view" showing the rapture window in blue. The Antichrist will initiate the beginning of the 70th week when he makes a big speech from the temple mount.

The rapture could take place even today.