Daniel Chapter 8 - the 2300 evenings and mornings prophecy

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Timtofly

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Thank you for your response. Yes, they are both seen as coming out of the 4th beast kingdom of pagan Rome. And both will continue until His return. The metal man image of Chapter 2 is given to us to confirm there will only be 4 kingdoms that come out of the sea. All of these prophecies in Daniel will take place within this 4 kingdom structure (interpret Daniel with Daniel. Revelation does not interpret Daniel. They will of course never disagree but the symbols in Revelation may not refer to those found in Daniel).

There are 4 and only 4 Gentile kingdoms in Daniel.



The little horn of Daniel 8 is the same little horn of Daniel 7. He is revealed or introduced in Chapter 7 and is expanded upon in Chapter 8. He will also be referred to in Chapters 9 and 11.

AE has no place in Daniel whatsoever (please tell me why he is a different little horn. Just as God gives us the same 4 kingdoms using different symbols in Chapters 2,7 and 8, He also uses this same treatment for other things. Here in Chapter 8, God is revealing more characteristics of this little horn that can only be describing one person who will be deemed “exceedingly great.” Certainly, that one characteristic alone disqualifies AE. Further, he only was in power for 13 years before he was murdered by his own troops. He was nothing more than a thug who hated Jews and damaged / corrupted the Temple. But this does not begin to qualify him for inclusion in Daniel).

Again, for the book of Daniel, God only brought out 4 kingdoms from the sea. We cannot add to that. We cannot change this prophetic kingdom structure where He places all of His prophecies in Daniel because we are attempting to match the prophecies / symbols in Revelation. Please reconsider your view on the # of kingdoms IN DANIEL.



Not sure I understand you here. There are only 4 kingdoms and each is referred to using different symbols in Chapters 2,7 and 8. The identity of these 4 never changes- only the using of different symbols to bring out different attributes and characteristics. God is revealing at least 3 separate views for each kingdom so we can easily identify them and know more about them as His people travel through them. As you can see, in Chapters 7, 8, and 11, God does not spend much time discussing the first three kingdoms. They are quickly put in the rear view mirror. It is this 4th kingdom that is so important and where almost all of the prophecies will take place.

Within this 4th kingdom, we will find:
1) the end of the 70 weeks of years prophecy,
2) the arrival of the Messiah on the first day of the 70th week,
3) the beginning of His ministry,
4) the rejection and crucifying of their Messiah,
5) the starting of His church,
6) the sending of His Holy Spirit,
7) the coming out of 10 horns just after His crucifixion,
8) the coming out of the little horn AFTER the 10 horns have come out,
9) the growth of His church during the remaining time of pagan Rome,
10) the appropriation of His church AFTER the demise of pagan Rome by the little horn (papacy) who will then reign as the head of papal Rome,
11) and as prophesied in Daniel, this little horn will continue until the end when he will be destroyed without human hands- clearly this is not AE, but the “evil” one who had taken over His church and brought in pagan practices, claims divinity, etc.).

The feet, partly of iron and partly of clay represent the 4th kingdom of pagan Rome (legs of iron that continue down to its feet - remember, God has only brought 4 kingdoms), but He will symbolize His people as “clay” WITHIN this 4th kingdom beast. And this is exactly what was at the time of the cross. The Jews had almost completely been restored from the destruction of the Babylonians. They were now back in Jerusalem and were awaiting their Messiah to come.
They were expecting Him to come and literally wage war with the Romans and destroy them and set up His earthly kingdom. Instead, God came as a suffering servant and He would save His people by sacrificing Himself on the cross for the forgiveness of sin. This would be God’s way of saving them from sin, not pagan Rome who kept them physically under their control.
God would use the symbol of clay (see Jeremiah), so He could reveal those of His people (clay) that would fall into one of two categories: those Jews who accepted Him as their Messiah, He would refer to them as “pottery clay” (He would be the Potter, and mold them as He so desired). Those that would reject Him, even after the cross and His resurrection, would be identified as “ceramic” clay because they hearts were too hardened and He could not use them to preach the Good News to the world. If you study verses 2:40-44, you will come to see the “post cross” division of His people and the discussion of His coming church).



I would ask you to try and interpret Daniel on its own. Remember, Daniel was written for those Jews who would be returning to Jerusalem after their exile in Babylon. Much of Daniel speaks to this very purpose (especially the 70 weeks of years prophecy which covers the time from 457 BC to the end in 33/34 AD - just 3.5 years after the cross).

The Book of Revelation has nothing to do with the Jews as they return from Babylon and await the coming of their Messiah. God would give them everything they would need in the Book of Daniel that revealed all the things that would take place before the completion of the 70 weeks prophecy. They simply could not comprehend how their God could come as a man or a suffering servant. He did not meet their expectations… they were looking for a king not an ordinary man.

This is so true. And that is exactly why I ask that you consider that Daniel is indeed prophesied on the most important events in our history- the arrival of Jesus within this 4th kingdom period of pagan Rome, within the period of the 70 weeks of years prophecy.

In 9:24, God reveals the 6 requirements He had given His Messiah to fulfill during the last 7 years of the prophecy. God “set aside” this last week for His Messiah to come and complete His God given mission. Remember, the 70 weeks prophecy required the restoration of everything in Jerusalem back to the way it was prior to the Babylonian destruction. The Jews were required to restore all the physical things - the city, the Temple, the Sanctuary, the walls and streets - all the physical things, if you will. And everything had to be completely restored by the end of the 69th week. And they were all restored in the exact reverse order they were either destroyed or taken away. However, there was only one item they were incapable of restoring- the Ark of the Covenant that was taken away by Jeremiah before the arrival of the Babylonians. Consequently, this would have to be the very last item to be restored. And only one person is capable of restoring it- the Messiah would represent the presence of God in the Sanctuary. He would be the final piece of the restoration prophecy and He would arrive on the very first day of the 70th west begin His ministry. Do you are absolutely correct, all of these verses in Daniel lead us to the most important events in our history- which all occur at the end of the 70th week, all within the 4th kingdom of pagan Rome.








Please consider taking the above interpretations and match them to what literally took place from 606 BC, the beginning of the Babylonian captivity, to the end of the 70th week of the Chapter 9 prophecy.


This is so true and that is exactly why MOST of Daniel has been misinterpreted- their interpretations do not focus on the coming of the Messiah and His plan of salvation that is being told within these chapters. It is not a retelling or a recounting of some events that took place in our history books. It is a messianic prophecy that is being told as His people move through these 4 kingdoms. The kingdoms, their kings, their conflicts are not the story. They “house” the story to reveal the coming restoration of Jerusalem culminating in the arrival of their Messiah in the last week for Him to fulfill His God given mission.


Look forward to your thoughts.
The 70 weeks are not completed. There is still a 3.5 year time period to finish and be completed by Jesus as the Prince to come. Jesus as King is still future for Israel.

Rome was covered by the two legs. The 5th kingdom is not the Roman Republic, nor the Roman Empire. The 5th kingdom is the Holy Roman Empire. Is there a problem that Daniel gives us information all the way to the time of the Reformation?

You do realize that the promise of Daniel 9 is not yet declared finished until the 7th Trumpet?
 

ewq1938

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Well, I agree the beast isn’t described as having eight heads but Revelation 17:11 says he is the eighth and is of the seven.

What do you think Revelation 17:11 is talking about?

That is speaking of consecutive kings (who rule kingdoms throughout history). None of them exist at the same time except maybe the last two. The heads of the beast of Rev 13 all exist at the same time, limited to only 7 never 8 and are mountains (just means land masses not super tall snow covered mountains) not kings. The ten horns are kings, not the heads. Likely the Rev 13 seven headed beast is the 7th king/kingdom.

Which one of the seven would you consider to be called the eighth?

The 7th king would be the one who would be the 8th. Horns in Rev are kings and the false prophet has two horns so possibly in some way he is two kings, like a peaceful king that turns into a war-mongering king? In the Greek the horns are of a lambkin not a lamb which means he has two little horns which should draw one's thoughts to the little horn who was the ruler of the ten horned beast in Daniel. Most see the little horn as the OT antichrist so the FP with two little horns is an updated version of Daniel's little horn and the FP is the ruler over the ten horned beast. The FP is the AC.
 

Douggg

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Ok, thanks. Satan gives his power, seat, and authority to the beast, when that happens do you see Satan as not being able to deceive at that time?
I know the beast deceives when he receives the power, seat, and authority but what about Satan himself during that time, do you see him retaining some power so that he can still deceive?
What I think is that Satan will use the beast-king for purpose of deception to mankind against God and the truth. Just as Satan used the serpent beast in the garden of eden to get Adam and Eve to sin, lying to them that they could become as gods themselves, Genesis 3:5.

Considering that the beast-king will appear to have overcome death, after his claim of having achieved God-hood - his gospel to get people to worship him maybe that his followers can do the same.

But to answer your question, I don't think Satan changes his own character in any way. John 8:44 speaks about his character.
 
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Douggg

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They didn't receive him as teacher, prophet or head Chef either. That doesn't change what Jesus said, which has NOTHING to do with the AC.

No. You are using EISEGESIS to add "king of Israel" into the text. This is a logical fallacy which means it's WRONG.
The term "Christ" means "messiah".

John 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

Being the messiah in the manner that the Jews expect of the messiah is to be the King of Israel. Even them who participated to have Jesus crucified expressed that point....

Mark 15:
31 Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save.
32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

They did not refer to him as a teacher, nor prophet - but "Christ the King of Israel".

The "Anti" Christ will become so by being anointed the "King of Israel". You can go to any Jewish (Judaism) website and research if the Jews are looking for the messiah to be anointed the King of Israel. btw, the term and concept of Antichrist is not part of their beliefs.
 
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ewq1938

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The term "Christ" means "messiah".

Actually it means "anointed" and is interpreted as a reference to Messiah.


John 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

Being the messiah in the manner that the Jews expect of the messiah is to be the King of Israel. Even them who participated to have Jesus crucified expressed that point....

Mark 15:
31 Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save.
32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

They did not refer to him as a teacher, nor prophet - but "Christ the King of Israel".


They are non-believers. They do not and cannot determine what prophecy is true. The AC also doesn't have to copy everything about Jesus. Jesus was not the king of Israel at the first coming and will be the king of kings, the king over all countries not just Israel and he isn't going to be elected by anyone to be king.


The "Anti" Christ will become so by being anointed the "King of Israel".

Cool, how about you show that actually taking place in scripture? Do far you have simply interpreted that such a thing will happen because some human called Jesus a king of Israel so I guess the Jews will have to make him their king. None of that is found in any prophecy.


You can go to any Jewish (Judaism) website and research if the Jews are looking for the messiah to be anointed the King of Israel. btw, the term and concept of Antichrist is not part of their beliefs.

Doesn't mean they will make the AC king though. I don't see that shown in prophecy.
 

Douggg

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The AC also doesn't have to copy everything about Jesus. Jesus was not the king of Israel at the first coming and will be the king of kings, the king over all countries not just Israel and he isn't going to be elected by anyone to be king.
Some Christians in their eschatology believe that the Antichrist will come pretending to be Jesus. I do not believe that at all. Instead, the Antichrist will speak against Jesus being the messiah.

In John 12:14-15, Jesus Himself demonstrated that the was the God-sent King of Israel.

12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,

13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,

15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

So in those verses, you have Jesus coming as the King of Israel, taking actions himself that he is that rightful king, fulfilling Zechariah 9:9.

9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
 

grafted branch

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Likely the Rev 13 seven headed beast is the 7th king/kingdom.
Ok, in Revelation 13:1 the beast has ten horns and ten crowns upon his horns. In Revelation 17:3 the beast has ten horns but no crowns are mentioned, when we get to verse 12 it says they haven’t received their kingdom yet, but do receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

Do you see the crowns being on the horns taking place when they receive power as kings in Revelation 17:12? If so then the woman/harlot rides the beast prior to the Revelation 13 first beast, that has the ten crowns.

If you’re in agreement with this so far then when the angel says, in Revelation 17:8, the beast that thou sawest was, is not, and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, would mean that the woman/harlot rode the beast with no crowns on its horns in the past, prior to when Revelation was written. Also this would put the events of Revelation 12 happening in the past if we also place Revelation 12 and 13 in chronological order.

What are your thoughts on this?
 

Timtofly

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I recommend that you re-study Rev. 13:2 and re-read the descriptions of those beasts as vs. 2 states it. All of it is in Daniel
What I have shown is biblically factual, accurate and is not tainted by "the wisdom of men" through the religions of church-ianity. 1Cor. 2:5.
Your post adds to the Word of God and is just the wisdom of man.

You came up with 8 heads, but there are only 7 heads. You left out the point that Jesus is declared King of all nations at the 7th Trumpet. Revelation 11:15 is also part of Scripture.

The 7 heads of the dragon are the same 7 heads of the sea beast, and the same 7 heads of the scarlet colored beast. The same historical kingdoms are in Revelation 12, as well as Revelation 13, and Revelation 17. You have attempted to create 8 heads plus Jesus making 9 kingdoms in total. You would change Revelation 17:10-11 to say:

"And there are eight kings: six are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the ninth, and is of the eight, and goeth into perdition."

You change what John wrote as only 7 heads and declare 8 heads.

I agree that John gives us 3 different perspectives of the same historical view. The dragon in Revelation 12 is about Satan, and the coming involvement he had with the other 6 historical kingdoms, but there are only 6. Revelation 13 is the view of those 6 kingdoms, starting with Nebuchadnezzar. But from Revelation 17, we see that 5 heads have been dead already throughout time. The 6th head is current, and Satan is still the 7th head. John is not reinventing 3 different beast in each chapter. The 7 heads are always the same in each chapter. You do not have to add your opinion to Scripture to come up with 8 kingdoms.

The 7th Kingdom is not part of the 7 headed beast at all. The 7th Kingdom is declared in Revelation 11, at the 7th Trumpet.

That means, if there is an 8th kingdom, it will only last a short time, 42 months, and then the 7th Kingdom will return. Revelation 19 is the return of the 7th Kingdom, and that 7th Kingdom will rule the earth for the next thousand years. During that time Satan will be bound and will not be able to deceive any human on earth.

Revelation does not cover the 2300 days, because Revelation does not cover events in 2nd century BC. The fulfillment of the 2300 days happened to Israel during the third head of the historical kingdom of Greece. This dream is not during the 4th head of the Roman kingdom. Daniel 8 is about Greece, not Rome, nor the 5th kingdom after Rome from the 5th century to the Reformation. When John wrote that 5 heads had fallen, that places Daniel 8 as the third head that had already fallen. Daniel 8 has already been fulfilled.

The 6th head or kingdom is the time between the Reformation and the 7th Trumpet. It is mortally wounded. Perhaps some humans have tried to Unite the world to heal that wound, but it cannot be healed until after the Second Coming, and then only until the 7th Trumpet sounds. At that point the 6th head will be past history as well, and fallen.

"After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it."

This is Greece mentioned in Daniel 7. In Daniel 8, Greece is back to:

"And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes... Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven. And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land."

The 4th beast in Daniel 7 was Rome. Then in Daniel 8, Daniel goes back to cover Greece. Daniel 8 was fulfilled before the events mentioned in the last half of chapter 7. What Daniel sees in Daniel 8 is not an expansion on, nor a further revelation of the events of Daniel 7. Daniel 8 was fulfilled in the 2nd century BC. Daniel 7 was fulfilled in the first century AD.

Daniel 8 covers the third kingdom of Greece. Daniel 7 covers the 4th kingdom of Rome. Then in Daniel 9 we see a mystery that is introduced that many still cannot fully understand. Daniel 10 may never be understood until after the Second Coming. Daniel has more visions or dreams, but never tells us what they were. For 21 days he agonized over them, because the angel was detained from coming to Daniel and explaining them. In chapter 11 we get an explanation about Greece again on the vision never declared in chapter 10.

Daniel was told about the end of this current creation, but no one seems to accept that would be 3500 years after Daniel's time.
 

Timtofly

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Well, I agree the beast isn’t described as having eight heads but Revelation 17:11 says he is the eighth and is of the seven.

What do you think Revelation 17:11 is talking about? Which one of the seven would you consider to be called the eighth?
Satan is the 7th head. There will only be 6 time frames from Nebuchadnezzar until the Second Coming. Yes the heads of Revelation and beasts of Daniel represent "ethnic" kingdoms. But only the first 4 kingdoms are ethnic. The feet are a mixture of clay and iron, meaning the 5th kingdom is not an ethnicity. The 5th kingdom contains ten toes or ten different ethnic nations. Even the two legs speaks of division and there was no single ethnicity in Rome. Rome is the name of a city. The Romans were many nations who agreed that those in Rome controlled their daily lives and constituted a government.

Jesus is the 7th Kingdom, and will always and forever be the 7th Kingdom.

Satan as the 7th head, and 8th kingdom, will only be allowed 42 months, if at all. Many state Satan is the Prince of this world, but Satan has never sat on a throne where Satan is worshipped by all. That can only happen if there is an 8th kingdom. Satan was not mentioned in Daniel, but he was still involved and pulling the strings so to speak throughout time, for those deceived by Satan. Some leaders like the one who married Esther, were more inclined to follow God, than Satan, but they were the exceptions.
 

ewq1938

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Ok, in Revelation 13:1 the beast has ten horns and ten crowns upon his horns. In Revelation 17:3 the beast has ten horns but no crowns are mentioned, when we get to verse 12 it says they haven’t received their kingdom yet, but do receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

Do you see the crowns being on the horns taking place when they receive power as kings in Revelation 17:12?


No.

Rev 17 is explaining what the horns are etc. They are called kings, and kings have crowns whether mentioned or not. It is the hour/42 months in which these ten people are made kings which is when they have crowns.

If you’re in agreement with this so far then when the angel says, in Revelation 17:8, the beast that thou sawest was, is not, and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, would mean that the woman/harlot rode the beast with no crowns on its horns in the past, prior to when Revelation was written. Also this would put the events of Revelation 12 happening in the past if we also place Revelation 12 and 13 in chronological order.


They are in chronological order, and Rev 12 starts with the birth of Christ so it was always the past even to John. The Babylon of Rev symbolizes religious confusion directly tied to the AC who will be worshipped and will claim to be god, maybe claiming to be the returned Christ. In this sense, Babylon only exists when this false god does. But, in the idea of types and shadows, similar things can exist in the past and may happen many times before the real and final thing happens. satan as the ten horned beast in Rev 12 is a good example because it's very similar to the ten horned beast in Rev 13, but slightly different. The ten horned beast of Rev 13 does not exist in Rev 12, but something like it does.
 

ewq1938

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Some Christians in their eschatology believe that the Antichrist will come pretending to be Jesus. I do not believe that at all. Instead, the Antichrist will speak against Jesus being the messiah.

Actually to impersonate Christ and claim to be Christ is in a sense speaking against the true Christ and I do believe the AC will claim to be Jesus but that is for another discussion.
In John 12:14-15, Jesus Himself demonstrated that the was the God-sent King of Israel.

12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,

13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,

15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

So in those verses, you have Jesus coming as the King of Israel, taking actions himself that he is that rightful king, fulfilling Zechariah 9:9.


Yet again others are calling him this king of Israel. Never does Christ agree to it in fact he refused to claim it:

Mat 27:11 And Jesus stood before the governor: and the governor asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And Jesus said unto him, Thou sayest.

He couldn't say yes because he wasn't the king of Israel and explained that his kingdom that he was a king of was not on the Earth but was elsewhere.

Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
 

Douggg

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Yet again others are calling him this king of Israel. Never does Christ agree to it in fact he refused to claim it:
Refused to claim it ?

Can't you read !!!!!

Jesus himself took action to verify that he was the God-sent King of Israel in John 12:14-15.

14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,

15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

Mat 27:11 And Jesus stood before the governor: and the governor asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And Jesus said unto him, Thou sayest.

He couldn't say yes because he wasn't the king of Israel and explained that his kingdom that he was a king of was not on the Earth but was elsewhere.
"Thou sayest" is Jesus saying yes, it is true, just as you say.

Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

In John 18:36, Jesus was speaking in an exchange with Pilate, who wanted to see if any of the charges brought against Jesus by the Jewish religious leaders of insurrection against the Roman government were true. Jesus did not deny that he was King of the Jews, but even so that he was not leading an insurrection. In that verse, Jesus was also saying that He was king of the Kingdom of God.

37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Pilate himself concluded Jesus was not guilty of insurrection.

In John 1:49, Nathanel said that Jesus was the King of Israel. Did Jesus in response deny that he was the King of Israel ?

49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
 
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ewq1938

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Refused to claim it ?

Can't you read !!!!!

Jesus himself took action to verify that he was the God-sent King of Israel in John 12:14-15.

14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,

15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.


"Thou sayest" is Jesus saying yes, it is true, just as you say.


No, it's a refusal. He is saying, "YOU say I am a king." Then as I showed he explained his kingdom is not from here so he was not a king of the Jews or Israel or any place on Earth but he would be in the future.


In John 18:36, Jesus was speaking in an exchange with Pilate, who wanted to see if any of the charges brought against Jesus by the Jewish religious leaders of insurrection against the Roman government were true. Jesus did not deny that he was King of the Jews, but even so that he was not leading an insurrection. In that verse, Jesus was also saying that He was king of the Kingdom of God.

37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

And here Christ says he was born to be a king but says "to this end" which means it was something to happen later not at the time.

Pilate himself concluded Jesus was not guilty of insurrection.

Yes but still allowed Christ to be punished as a guilty man.
 

CTK

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If anyone is interested, I would respectfully request that we might return to the original topic of the 2300 days prophecy.

So,
1) is this time element speaking to the cleansing of the Sanctuary in heaven or on earth?

2) is this event that was fulfilled during the time of AE, Messiah, or in the end times, (or another view)?

3) is it to be calculated in days, 1/2 days, or years?

4) do you agree or recognize that, of the first two visions given to Daniel, one is identified as the “Mareh” vision and the second as the “Chazon” vision (although only the English word “vision” is used in all verses ? The “Mareh” vision is used to describe a short term vision- an appearance or sight type vision specifically used with the 2300 days, while the “Chazon” vision is a long term vision that speaks to the period from 606 BC to His return?

5) only in verse 26 a will we find that Gabriel tells Daniel the vision (Mareh) is TRUE and this refers only to the 2300 days? In the Scriptures, does this term “TRUE OR TRUTH” usually speak to God or something of God?
 

Douggg

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Yes but still allowed Christ to be punished as a guilty man.
Pilate found Jesus not guilty.

And Pilate acknowledged that Jesus was the king of the Jews and had a sign placed on the cross above Jesus's head...

"JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.

In John 1:49, Nathanel said that Jesus was the King of Israel. Did Jesus in response deny that he was the King of Israel ?

1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

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Matthew 2:1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
 
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Douggg

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If anyone is interested, I would respectfully request that we might return to the original topic of the 2300 days prophecy.
Sure.

Daniel 8's 2300 days precedes Jesus's Return. Time of the end, Daniel 8:17.

2300 days 3.jpg
 

Davidpt

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1) is this time element speaking to the cleansing of the Sanctuary in heaven or on earth?

Why would a sanctuary in heaven need to be cleansed? Therefore, a sanctuary on earth seems more likely. But that doesn't have to mean a literal brick and mortar sanctuary is meant. IMO, it involves 2 Thessalonians 2:4, for one, and that I don't take that verse in the literal sense.

2) is this event that was fulfilled during the time of AE, Messiah, or in the end times, (or another view)?

Def not during AE. It's fulfilled during the time of the Messiah including end times involving His 2nd advent. For one, I base this deduction on Daniel 8:25 the fact I take the Prince of princes to be meaning Christ. Which means Christ has to be born first, which He already was.

3) is it to be calculated in days, 1/2 days, or years?


That I couldn't tell you. It seems to me that mainly SDAs need it to be meaning years. Those that think it was fulfilled during AE's time need it to be 1/2 days, apparently. If literal days are meant, what would be the day this 2300 days begin? It seems to me that one would have to know that in order to make any sense out of it, in the event literal days are meant.
 
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ewq1938

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Pilate found Jesus not guilty.

Only personally though. Officially and legally (local laws and Roman law) he allowed Jesus to be punished as a guilty man.


And Pilate acknowledged that Jesus was the king of the Jews and had a sign placed on the cross above Jesus's head...

"JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.


That was mockery and you know that. It was not an acknowledgment.


In John 1:49, Nathanel said that Jesus was the King of Israel. Did Jesus in response deny that he was the King of Israel ?

1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.


He did not deny it then but did when Pilate spoke to him about it.


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Matthew 2:1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

They were wrong on when he would be this King. He taught that his kingdom was not from here. Do you disagree? Do you think he was in his kingdom during his Earthly life?
 

Douggg

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They were wrong on when he would be this King.
Oh, they were wrong because that would invalidate your position that the Antichrist will not be anointed the king of Israel, thought-to-be messiah.

I have produced text upon text that Jesus was the God-sent king of Israel. And that Jesus Himself validated it by finding a donkey to ride into Jerusalem to fulfill Zechariah 9:9.

9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

If Jesus did not fulfill that prophecy in John 12:12-15, then when is Jesus going to fulfill that prophecy ?
 

ewq1938

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Oh, they were wrong because that would invalidate your position that the Antichrist will not be anointed the king of Israel, thought-to-be messiah.

Nope. They were wrong because Jesus denied being a king and having an Earthly kingdom at that time. It would happen eventually but not during the first coming.


I have produced text upon text that Jesus was the God-sent king of Israel. And that Jesus Himself validated it by finding a donkey to ride into Jerusalem to fulfill Zechariah 9:9.

And I have shown your interpretations to be in error, contradicting Christ's own words not interpretations of his actions as you are doing right here.

9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

If Jesus did not fulfill that prophecy in John 12:12-15, then when is Jesus going to fulfill that prophecy ?


He is a king from a far away Kingdom. He will return as King of this world at the second coming.