Hmmmm. But then He sure did say a lot of things that make no sense.
And on that note,,,I think this discussion stops here.
The curious case of John 5:4
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And on that note,,,I think this discussion stops here.
“[Jesus] was a first-century Jewish monotheist.” - N.T. Wright (Anglican)
Everything Jesus said makes sense to Jewish monotheists who believe he is the promised Messiah.
Not sure who you're talking about.
The Jews I've known that accepted Jesus as the Messiah accept the Nicene Creed.
Let's put it that way.
If not, then they're Jewish, period.
Caiaphas was a Jewish Monotheist (if you mean those at Jesus' time).
Why did he rip his tunic?
Most Messianic Jews do, some don’t.
The earliest Christians (1st century), including all of the Apostles, were Jews, not Nicene affirming Christians.
He didn’t believe that a fellow Jewish monotheist, Jesus, is the Messiah promised, raised up and sent by their God.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
So the nicene creed should be held above the word of God?
I would agree with the user, that if this is the requirment, then I would not qualify either. I could care less about some creed I did not write, i did not commit to follow.
I am a follower of God in the Bible. Not some creed
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I have seen it also..HOW does a person find comfort in something they don't believe in??!!
LOL
they believe in certain parts. Just not the whole..
No, not at all. N.T. Wright is most assuredly a Nicene affirming Christian.
All I’m saying is that he is able to acknowledge, as I do, that Jesus himself is a Jewish monotheist.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Why would my faith be damaged?
If you showed them, and I could not answer them, I would study long and hard to resolve them
Now if there are literal contradictions in the word which can not be answered. Then my faith in the word would be shattered. Because it could not be trusted. god does not contradict himselfl nor is the author of confusion
Thats why I asked. Don’t just say there are contradictions and say I must agree. Show them,,
If you do not want to do it here. That is fine..
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Are
or are they saved because they accept the words of God
I think it is legalistic to say we must agree to some creed. Or we are not part of the church.
Are they saved because the accept it.
or are they saved because they accept the words of God
I think it is legalistic to say we must agree to some creed. Or we are not part of the church.
They understood pretty quickly, within a couple of decades, that they were no longer welcomed into the synagogues.
The Apostolic Fathers understood that Jesus was God....I say this to confirm that the early church fought many heresies, one of the main heresies was arianism, which was handled at Nicea in 325AD....thus the Nicene Creed, to put an end to the arianists.
Jesus made a statement...which I will not repeat here.
Caiaphas tore open his tunic because he felt it was pure heresy.
Back to my original statement....if You are right,,,then Jesus made many odd statements.
Yes. Jews who didn’t believe Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah became intolerant of Jews who believed Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah. The struggle had nothing whatsoever to do with the rise later of Nicene Christianity.
Christianity began as a sect of and within Judaism. That’s primitive Christianity. It didn’t remain there.
I won’t get into that here but I will say, just to let you know, that I’m not an arian. I don’t agree with Arius and my theology is incompatible with his.
N.T. Wright doesn’t think Jesus made many odd statements.
Who got to Jesus' tomb first?
Was there a census in Jerusalem to which Joseph and Mary had to travel?
Was Jesus born in a manger?
When did the Magi show up?
Was Jesus silent on the cross or did He say some things?
There's just too much.
If you want a link, I'll post it, but maybe not here.
If you read my post carefully, you'll find that it DOES NOT state that they are not saved.
Just that to be defined as a Christian, a person must accept the definition of Christian.
It's not legalistic.
If you want to work for Google, they have a set standard for what they expect from a computer expert.
You might be a very nice person,,,,a very smart computer person....no one can deny this.
BUT, if you want to work for Google, you have to accept THEIR standard and be able to fulfil it.
If a company will ONLY hire persons with green hair, and you want to keep your brown hair, and they tell you this and you're aware of it...then you cannot work for them unless you have green hair.
This is true of any organization.
If I want to attend an AofG church, I have to believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
If I want to be Catholic...I have to accept all their doctrines.
If I want to be reformed...I have to accept the teachings of someone like John Calvin.
We can't make up our own definition of what a Christian is.
Otherwise the term becomes MEANINGLESS.
This is, BTW, a big problem we Protestants have.
Well, I'm a bit confused, but I think we're getting into areas that cannot be discussed.
No problem for me my friend.
By policy, the Trinity can’t be discussed but Jewish monotheism can be.
OK, but I don't know how to get around that.
Of course the Jews were monotheistic.
Of course Jesus was Jewish.
He believed in montheism.
So do Christians!
There is only One God....
What about Gregory??
He is one of the Cappadocian Fathers; Nicene affirming to the core.
Gregory of Nyssa - Wikipedia
He made a very clear statement about Jewish monotheism, unequivocally calling it heresy.
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