Daniel Chapter 8 - the 2300 evenings and mornings prophecy

[CTK]

You are welcome.

"Ok and thanks", but you don't have an answer to my question?
Post #372:
Now, can you venture to name the beast with the other two horns, that were also plucked up, and was a world ruler in their time, before [prior to] A4E rose to power?
Please give it a try.
Thanks.

You have again failed to respond to my questions. The only thing you have done is to give your opinion that Daniel 7 and 8 do not speak to the little horn.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The other way was 1150 morning and evenings which is the date when AE started His persecutions of the Jewish Temple. a double fulfillment. the 2300 morning ans evenings were the beginning of the cleansing of the temple after the revolt had triumphed. Thank You

And what date would that be?

 

[Earburner]

You have again failed to respond to my questions. The only thing you have done is to give your opinion that Daniel 7 and 8 do not speak to the little horn.

I guess we are at a stalemate. The 2300 days in the Strongs Hebrew:
H6152 Dan. 8:14
ערב
‛ereb
eh'-reb
From H6150; dusk
KJV Usage: + day, even (-ing, tide), night.

H3117 in Daniel12:11-12.
יום
yôm
yome
From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially)

In the case for the Hebrew meaning to be applied figuratively, there is no justification to do so. As a result, it does NOT APPLY to the 2300 Day prophecy. Any attempt to do so, by converting the 2300 literal days into years, is a human manipulation and a fabrication beyond what the scriptures reveal in context.

 

[CTK]

I guess we are at a stalemate. The 2300 days in the Strongs Hebrew:
H6152 Dan. 8:14
ערב
‛ereb
eh'-reb
From H6150; dusk
KJV Usage: + day, even (-ing, tide), night.

H3117 in Daniel12:11-12.
יום
yôm
yome
From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially)

In the case for the Hebrew meaning to be applied figuratively, there is no justification to do so. As a result, it does NOT APPLY to the 2300 Day prophecy. Any attempt to do so, by converting the 2300 literal days into years, is a human mani,pulation and a fabrication beyond what the scriptures reveal in context.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again Earburner,

So, you also cannot answer my question in post #372:
"Now, can you venture to name the beast with the other two horns, that were also plucked up, and was a world ruler in their time, before [prior to] A4E rose to power?"
Please give it a try.

I assume you are speaking about #365. No, I have not been fully following this thread and your posts. I am not in a position to unravel all the different views presented and especially your unusual view. I consider the three horns plucked up by the Little Horn of Daniel 7 are the three Papal States. It is obvious that the Little Horn of Daniel 7 is different to the Little Horn of Daniel 8, attached to different animals and doing different things. I consider that Daniel 7 speaks of a religious Little Horn referring to Western Roman Empire while the Little Horn of Daniel 8 is military referring to Eastern Roman Empire.

In the case for the Hebrew meaning to be applied figuratively, there is no justification to do so. As a result, it does NOT APPLY to the 2300 Day prophecy. Any attempt to do so, by converting the 2300 literal days into years, is a human manipulation and a fabrication beyond what the scriptures reveal in context.

I endorse 2300 years from the conquest of Alexander the Great BC 334-333 to AD 1967 when the Jews recaptured Jerusalem Luke 21:24.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Earburner]

Greetings again Earburner,

I assume you are speaking about #365. No, I have not been fully following this thread and your posts. I am not in a position to unravel all the different views presented and especially your unusual view. I consider the three horns plucked up by the Little Horn of Daniel 7 are the three Papal States. It is obvious that the Little Horn of Daniel 7 is different to the Little Horn of Daniel 8, attached to different animals and doing different things. I consider that Daniel 7 speaks of a religious Little Horn referring to Western Roman Empire while the Little Horn of Daniel 8 is military referring to Eastern Roman Empire.

I endorse 2300 years from the conquest of Alexander the Great BC 334-333 to AD 1967 when the Jews recaptured Jerusalem Luke 21:24.

Kind regards
Trevor

Yes, thank you for the correction. My reference is post #365. I have corrected that error.

I understand how it is that others are attempting to read the 2300 Day prophecy as being years. However, I cannot go against the Hebrew written words, that clearly and emphatically inform us that we are to understand it in the time of literal days, and not in years.
Please see my post #383 (I double checked).

 

[ewq1938]

definition of "stages"

definition of definition:

definition​

[ def-uh-nish-uhn ]
Phonetic (Standard)IPA

noun​

1. the act of defining, or of making something definite, distinct, or clear:
   We need a better definition of her responsibilities.
2. the formal statement of the meaning or significance of a word, phrase, idiom, etc., as found in dictionaries. An online dictionary resource, such as Dictionary.com, can give users direct, immediate access to the definitions of a term, allowing them to compare definitions from various dictionaries and stay up to date with an ever-expanding vocabulary.
3. the condition of being definite, distinct, or clearly outlined:
   His biceps have great muscle definition.
4. Optics. sharpness of the image formed by an optical system.
5. Radio and Television. the accuracy of sound or picture reproduction.

 

[ewq1938]

Ok. Let's play a little word game. Let's reverse that concept, and play it out.
Be aware, in your mind, it might be difficult for you to carry through with it.

My advice is never insult someone in a post where you are hoping to share something you believe in. I stopped reading your post when I saw the insult.

 

[Earburner]

My advice is never insult someone in a post where you are hoping to share something you believe in. I stopped reading your post when I saw the insult.

My apologies if you have been offended. It was not my intention for it to be an insult. I was just relating to the difficulty in my mind attempting to deliver it, realizing that it might be confusing to all who read it.
Earburner

 

[CTK]

I guess we are at a stalemate. The 2300 days in the Strongs Hebrew:
H6152 Dan. 8:14
ערב
‛ereb
eh'-reb
From H6150; dusk
KJV Usage: + day, even (-ing, tide), night.

H3117 in Daniel12:11-12.
יום
yôm
yome
From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially)

In the case for the Hebrew meaning to be applied figuratively, there is no justification to do so. As a result, it does NOT APPLY to the 2300 Day prophecy. Any attempt to do so, by converting the 2300 literal days into years, is a human manipulation and a fabrication beyond what the scriptures reveal in context.

I have requested that you provide your suppot / reasoning for your interpretations regarding the little horn, the 4th kingdom, etc., but you have only given me your opinion that the little horn is AE. So, I believe it might be approrpriate to take these important verses one at a time and ask you to provide not only your opinion but the reasoning / thoughts on your interpretations.

Here are verses 7:7-8..... Please provide your answers to these first 4 questions with the basis for your interpretations:

Chapter 7

7“After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.

8I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking [c]pompous words.

Here are verses 7:7-8. This is the introduction to the 4th beast of the 4 kingdoms of the metal man image from Chapter 2.

• Who is the 4th beast,
• Who are the 10 horns that come out of this beast?
• Who is the little horn that comes out of this beast BUT only after the 10 horns come out of the beast?
• Why do these 10 and this 1 horn come out of this 4th beast kingdom?
• Does any of your responses require the support from Chapter 2 (continuation of the storyline proving continuity and support for these Chapter 7 interpretations? Specifically, how does verses 2:40 - 44 support Chapter 7?

And this is only two verses we must address before we continue with Chapter 7.... it is going to get much harder.... should you continue!

 

[Bladerunner]

And what date would that be?

thanks for waiting.....the date AE conquered Jerusalem was 170 BC...He started to defile the temple in 168 BC and the Macabee rebellion began in 165. the cleansing of the temple began around 163 BC...
2300 days would be 6.38888 years based on 360 days/year. the 1150 days = 3.19 years. Hope this helps...Have been dating the Bible and just got these figures in a few weeks ago. Thanks for question.

 

[Earburner]

I have requested that you provide your suppot / reasoning for your interpretations regarding the little horn, the 4th kingdom, etc., but you have only given me your opinion that the little horn is AE. So, I believe it might be approrpriate to take these important verses one at a time and ask you to provide not only your opinion but the reasoning / thoughts on your interpretations.

First and foremost the Hebrew words for 2300 days are very clear, being that of literal days and not years. That is the very first reason for interpretation. Dan. 8:4, 12:11-12.

Here are verses 7:7-8..... Please provide your answers to these first 4 questions with the basis for your interpretations:

Chapter 7

7“After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.

8I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking [c]pompous words.

Here are verses 7:7-8. This is the introduction to the 4th beast of the 4 kingdoms of the metal man image from Chapter 2.

• Who is the 4th beast,

In the time of Daniel's visions of 525 BC, the 4th beast was then in its beginning as the Roman Republic, which didn't become the Roman Empire until 27 BC.

• Who are the 10 horns that come out of this beast?

In Daniel's dream/vision, the 10 horns were unknown at the time, but did have tribal beginnings in what is Europe today.

• Who is the little horn that comes out of this beast BUT only after the 10 horns come out of the beast?

 There is no little horn that comes out of the 4th Beast, but rather he comes out of one of the "four heads" of the Hellenistic Grecian Empire, the 3rd beast. The little horn rises "among them" (the 10 horns), but he is NOT of them.

• Why do these 10 and this 1 horn come out of this 4th beast kingdom?

The 10 Horns do come out of the 4th Beast, but the little horn does not. The little horn comes out of "the latter time of their kingdom" of the 3rd beast, which had divided into 4 kingdoms, after Alex the Great died, which was the Grecian Empire.

• Does any of your responses require the support from Chapter 2

The 2nd beast (Medio-Persian Empire) was shown having the breast and two arms of the metal of silver.
The 3rd beast (Grecian Empire) is depicted as having the belly and thighs of the metal of brass.

The 4th Beast had legs of iron, and then dispersed into that of feet and toes of iron mixed with miry clay, of which cannot not hold together, being Europe of today.

• (continuation of the storyline proving continuity and support for these Chapter 7 interpretations?

Before (prior to) the little horn (A4E) rose to power, to be among the ten horns, the 3 horns that were plucked up by the roots were:
A. the "Ram" (Medio-Persia) having 2 horns, and then that of
B. the "he goat" having 1 notable horn (Alex of Greece) between it's eyes.
From that point, the four Generals
(the "four heads") of Alex divided up the Grecian kingdom into the 4 kingdoms of Greece.

• Specifically, how does verses 2:40 - 44 support Chapter 7?

The feet/10 toes of iron and clay of the 4th beast, being "partly strong, and partly broken", which is Europe today.

And this is only two verses we must address before we continue with Chapter 7.... it is going to get much harder.... should you continue!

"Much harder"? I do not believe so.
That is, if you now dramatically adjust your thinking and opinions towards the ever evolving conglomerate 1st beast having 7 heads and 10 horns in Rev. 13:1-8, and then that of the "another beast" (vs. 11) which makes fire come down out of heaven (weapons of war).

 

[CTK]

First and foremost the Hebrew words for 2300 days are very clear, being that of literal days and not years. That is the very first reason for interpretation. Dan. 8:4, 12:11-12.

In the time of Daniel's visions of 525 BC, the 4th beast was then in its beginning as the Roman Republic, which didn't become the Roman Empire until 27 BC.

In Daniel's dream/vision, the 10 horns were unknown at the time, but did have tribal beginnings in what is Europe today.

 There is no little horn that comes out of the 4th Beast, but rather he comes out of one of the "four heads" of the Hellenistic Grecian Empire, the 3rd beast. The little horn rises "among them" (the 10 horns), but he is NOT of them.

The 10 Horns do come out of the 4th Beast, but the little horn does not. The little horn comes out of "the latter time of their kingdom" of the 3rd beast, which had divided into 4 kingdoms, after Alex the Great died, which was the Grecian Empire.

The 2nd beast (Medio-Persian Empire) was shown having the breast and two arms of the metal of silver.
The 3rd beast (Grecian Empire) is depicted as having the belly and thighs of the metal of brass.

The 4th Beast had legs of iron, and then dispersed into that of feet and toes of iron mixed with miry clay, of which cannot not hold together, being Europe of today.

Before the little horn rose to power, to be among the ten horns, the 3 horns that were plucked up by the roots were
A. the "Ram" (Medio-Persia) having 2 horns, and then that of
B. the "he goat" having 1 notable horn (Alex of Greece) between it's eyes.
From that point, the four Generals of Alex ( the "four heads) divided up the Grecian kingdom into the 4 kingdoms of Greece.

The feet/10 toes of iron and clay of the 4th beast, being "partly strong, and partly broken", which is Europe today.

"Much harder"? I do not believe so.
That is, if you now dramatically adjust your thinking and opinions towards the ever evolving conglomerate 1st beast having 7 heads and 10 horns in Rev. 13:1-8, and then that of the "another beast" (vs. 11) which makes fire come down out of heaven (weapons of war).

Thanks for your response and I don’t believe we will need to continue. Best wishes.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

thanks for waiting.....the date AE conquered Jerusalem was 170 BC...He started to defile the temple in 168 BC and the Macabee rebellion began in 165. the cleansing of the temple began around 163 BC...
2300 days would be 6.38888 years based on 360 days/year. the 1150 days = 3.19 years. Hope this helps...Have been dating the Bible and just got these figures in a few weeks ago. Thanks for question.

But AE is the one who defiled the temple. He died in 164 BC, and wasn't even around in 163 BC. The Jewish revolt was from 167 BC to 160 BC, and they cleansed the temple

 

[Earburner]

Thanks for your response and I don’t believe we will need to continue. Best wishes.

On such a note, I am not shocked** at your unwillingness to answer my question about the 3 horns that were "plucked up by the roots".

Since you have provided no sturdy answer, that is worthy to interpret Dan. 7:8, it's only reasonable to conclude that the truth can and will stand by itself.
[8] I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom [prior to the little horn] there WERE three of the  FIRST horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Those FIRST 3 horns were in the PAST of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, before he rose up from out of Seleucid kingdom, "in the latter time of THEIR kingdom", aka the Grecian Empire- the 3rd Beast.

Please see again my post #365, for the details of who those 3 horns were, that "were plucked up by the roots", prior to A4E's rise to power.
**Note: for your information, I am an X-SDA.

Thanks for listening,
 Earburner

 

[CTK]

On such a note, I am not shocked** at your unwillingness to answer my question about the 3 horns that were "plucked up by the roots".

Since you have provided no sturdy answer, that is worthy to interpret Dan. 7:8, it's only reasonable to conclude that the truth can and will stand by itself.
[8] I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom [prior to the little horn] there were three of the  FIRST horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Those FIRST 3 horns were in the PAST of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, before he rose up from out of Seleucid kingdom, "in the latter time of THEIR kingdom", aka the Grecian Empire- the 3rd Beast.

**Note: for your information, I am an X-SDA.

You can assume whatever you desire... there is absolutely no unwillingness on my part to discuss and share my interpretations with anyone. It is quite the opposite. If you look at my normal responses, they are sometimes quite lengthy and might just put some off because they maybe interested in a short brief answer. But I have found not only is Daniel one of the most difficult books to understand but it is almost impossible, at least for me, to present a complete interpretation on a specific issue or verse because they are all so interelated... so when a new interpretation is offered that departs from "today's accepted interpretations," it is difficult to leave that new interpretation out there on its own little island. Consequently, it might or does come off as "way out there and not in line with their "taught" beliefs which are, for the most part, not speaking to the prophetic messages from God within Daniel - because Daniel is so complicated, almost all have either developed a unscriptural historical view or an unscriptural futurist view. You have indeed combined these two views together to form your own unbelievable set of vague interpretations,

Now, take a look at the following: Here is a copy of verses 7:7-8. Despite this being crystal clear that, after Daniel gives us the characteristices of this unusual 4th beast kingdom of pagan Rome, he also informs us this 4th kingdom beast will also have 10 horns. He also continues to mention it will have an additional"little horn" coming out of it AFTER the 10 horns come out of the 4th beast kingdom.


7“After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. 8I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking [c]pompous words.

And here was your response to me:

There is no little horn that comes out of the 4th Beast, but rather he comes out of one of the "four heads" of the Hellenistic Grecian Empire, the 3rd beast.


Now, it that what these two verses are saying? Or more likely, you MUST stay with your interpretation despite its clear presentation on when this little horn arrives, because your position this "little horn" MUST be AE because of your interpretation of 8:8-9? You are simply giving priority for the identification of the little horn to the two verses in Chapter 8 over the two verses in Chapter 7.
Instead, you should be asking or willing to ask how or why these two verses do not speak to the same individual. And they do, but you are unable to even discuss the issue. You have made your decision and will not tolerate another's view even when you might / may realize on your own that you have completed butchered, ignored or whatever, these two very clear verses in Chapter 7. Then you make the statement the 10 horns DO come out of the 4th kingdom but the little horn does not. Please tell me how AE comes out AFTER the 10 horns come out of the 4th beast kingdom?


Regarding your comment on my unwillingness to provide my interpretation on the 3 horn, it has nothing to do with my "unwillingness." Rather, it is because it would have absolutely no value to you. The only thing you would do is to do what you typically do with so many of your responses (not just to me)- you reject them immediately, and go on to attack the poster.

On a few occasions, I have asked you to provide your interpretations for the above 5 questions (at this is just at the start of Chapter 7). But you are unable to address them in any meaningful way.

• Who is the 4th beast, - you said pagan Rome.... correct,

• Who are the 10 horns that come out of this beast? you said some that has history related to Europe (what in the world!!!),

• Who is the little horn that comes out of this beast BUT only after the 10 horns come out of the beast? you said there is no little horn that comes out of the 4th beast but the 3rd kingdom and he is AE (seriously?)

• Why do these 10 and this 1 horn come out of this 4th beast kingdom? your response was not .....),

• Does any of your responses require the support from Chapter 2 (continuation of the storyline proving continuity and support for these Chapter 7 interpretations? Specifically, how does verses 2:40 - 44 support Chapter 7? you were able to mention the identification of the 2nd and 3rd kingdoms but when it comes to the 4th kingdom, you could not answer but somehow, mentioned the iron and clay (no undeterstanding of who they are or how they should be interpreted), and, once again, brought up Europe as though it meant anything to these verses. Then, you contend the two horns of the ram and the one horn of Greece were the 3 horns that were plucked up by the little horn (AE?????), Didn't the 10 horns come out of the 4th kingdom and THEN the little horn come out after? And yes, the little horn did indeed pluck out 3 of the 10 horns - but all of this is in the 4th kingdom beast.

Now, regarding your comment that you are an X-SDA member.... I have found they have a lot of things right! Certainly, they speak the gospel better than most: if I understand them correctly, they believe in the Old Testament, the New Testament and that Jesus is the Messiah and savior of the world. There is only one God and Jesus is His Messiah. Now, where they fail is at the same place where ALL the other denominations fail - in prophecy. They believe they have Daniel locked down, but they are nowhere near the correct intepretations of Daniel. But if you were to compare the SDA folks to the RCC, you will find just how corrupt and satanic that church is! They truly preach a very different gospel, brought in pagan rituals and practices, and claim the pope is divine and can forgive sin, etc. They worship saints and idols, indulgences, the sacaments and salvation is only throught their church. Now, do you really think that anyone on this earth could meet the characteriistics given in Daniel of the little horn more than these folks? Impossible. Chapter 7 and 8, 9, and 11 all speak within their verses of this "evil"one. It is imipossible for AE to meet those characteristics and sheer power (exeedingly great) that was / is amassed by the RCC. But the SDA folks are completely unable to move off of their position regarding Daniel or the end time prophecies. They will not even listen to any other folks outside their relatively small group of interpreters (Ellen White, etc.). And to be quite candid, I am not surprised to hear you have the SDA background within you.... for you too have put up stone fences to all other views but your own, and you own does not make any sense... sorry, you maybe willing to depart from the SDA folks because of their unusual interpretations - like the 2300 (years), and the infamous and quite false "day for a year principle." but you seem to have built your own set of walls...

 

[Earburner]

You can assume whatever you desire... there is absolutely no unwillingness on my part to discuss and share my interpretations with anyone. It is quite the opposite. If you look at my normal responses, they are sometimes quite lengthy and might just put some off because they maybe interested in a short brief answer. But I have found not only is Daniel one of the most difficult books to understand but it is almost impossible, at least for me, to present a complete interpretation on a specific issue or verse because they are all so interelated... so when a new interpretation is offered that departs from "today's accepted interpretations," it is difficult to leave that new interpretation out there on its own little island. Consequently, it might or does come off as "way out there and not in line with their "taught" beliefs which are, for the most part, not speaking to the prophetic messages from God within Daniel - because Daniel is so complicated, almost all have either developed a unscriptural historical view or an unscriptural futurist view. You have indeed combined these two views together to form your own unbelievable set of vague interpretations,

Now, take a look at the following: Here is a copy of verses 7:7-8. Despite this being crystal clear that, after Daniel gives us the characteristices of this unusual 4th beast kingdom of pagan Rome, he also informs us this 4th kingdom beast will also have 10 horns. He also continues to mention it will have an additional"little horn" coming out of it AFTER the 10 horns come out of the 4th beast kingdom.


7“After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. 8I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking [c]pompous words.

And here was your response to me:

There is no little horn that comes out of the 4th Beast, but rather he comes out of one of the "four heads" of the Hellenistic Grecian Empire, the 3rd beast.


Now, it that what these two verses are saying? Or more likely, you MUST stay with your interpretation despite its clear presentation on when this little horn arrives, because your position this "little horn" MUST be AE because of your interpretation of 8:8-9? You are simply giving priority for the identification of the little horn to the two verses in Chapter 8 over the two verses in Chapter 7.
Instead, you should be asking or willing to ask how or why these two verses do not speak to the same individual. And they do, but you are unable to even discuss the issue. You have made your decision and will not tolerate another's view even when you might / may realize on your own that you have completed butchered, ignored or whatever, these two very clear verses in Chapter 7. Then you make the statement the 10 horns DO come out of the 4th kingdom but the little horn does not. Please tell me how AE comes out AFTER the 10 horns come out of the 4th beast kingdom?


Regarding your comment on my unwillingness to provide my interpretation on the 3 horn, it has nothing to do with my "unwillingness." Rather, it is because it would have absolutely no value to you. The only thing you would do is to do what you typically do with so many of your responses (not just to me)- you reject them immediately, and go on to attack the poster.

On a few occasions, I have asked you to provide your interpretations for the above 5 questions (at this is just at the start of Chapter 7). But you are unable to address them in any meaningful way.

• Who is the 4th beast, - you said pagan Rome.... correct,

• Who are the 10 horns that come out of this beast? you said some that has history related to Europe (what in the world!!!),

• Who is the little horn that comes out of this beast BUT only after the 10 horns come out of the beast? you said there is no little horn that comes out of the 4th beast but the 3rd kingdom and he is AE (seriously?)

• Why do these 10 and this 1 horn come out of this 4th beast kingdom? your response was not .....),

• Does any of your responses require the support from Chapter 2 (continuation of the storyline proving continuity and support for these Chapter 7 interpretations? Specifically, how does verses 2:40 - 44 support Chapter 7? you were able to mention the identification of the 2nd and 3rd kingdoms but when it comes to the 4th kingdom, you could not answer but somehow, mentioned the iron and clay (no undeterstanding of who they are or how they should be interpreted), and, once again, brought up Europe as though it meant anything to these verses. Then, you contend the two horns of the ram and the one horn of Greece were the 3 horns that were plucked up by the little horn (AE?????), Didn't the 10 horns come out of the 4th kingdom and THEN the little horn come out after? And yes, the little horn did indeed pluck out 3 of the 10 horns - but all of this is in the 4th kingdom beast.

Now, regarding your comment that you are an X-SDA member.... I have found they have a lot of things right! Certainly, they speak the gospel better than most: if I understand them correctly, they believe in the Old Testament, the New Testament and that Jesus is the Messiah and savior of the world. There is only one God and Jesus is His Messiah. Now, where they fail is at the same place where ALL the other denominations fail - in prophecy. They believe they have Daniel locked down, but they are nowhere near the correct intepretations of Daniel. But if you were to compare the SDA folks to the RCC, you will find just how corrupt and satanic that church is! They truly preach a very different gospel, brought in pagan rituals and practices, and claim the pope is divine and can forgive sin, etc. They worship saints and idols, indulgences, the sacaments and salvation is only throught their church. Now, do you really think that anyone on this earth could meet the characteriistics given in Daniel of the little horn more than these folks? Impossible. Chapter 7 and 8, 9, and 11 all speak within their verses of this "evil"one. It is imipossible for AE to meet those characteristics and sheer power (exeedingly great) that was / is amassed by the RCC. But the SDA folks are completely unable to move off of their position regarding Daniel or the end time prophecies. They will not even listen to any other folks outside their relatively small group of interpreters (Ellen White, etc.). And to be quite candid, I am not surprised to hear you have the SDA background within you.... for you too have put up stone fences to all other views but your own, and you own does not make any sense... sorry, you maybe willing to depart from the SDA folks because of their unusual interpretations - like the 2300 (years), and the infamous and quite false "day for a year principle." but you seem to have built your own set of walls...

Say what you will about the interpretation of Dan. 7:8, that the Lord has revealed to me, and others I'm sure, because it is entirely based on scripture and taught by the Holy Spirit within me.
1 John 2
[27] But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

As I have quoted 1 Cor. 2:5 before, it must be of personal introspect, that we all understand within ourselves, of who it is that is FORMING our FAITH, and where it SHOULD NOT STAND!
Is it the Lord Himself, or is it "church-ianity"?

1 Cor. 2
[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power [anointing] of God.

Thank you for this discussion.
Earburner

 

[Douggg]

But AE is the one who defiled the temple. He died in 164 BC, and wasn't even around in 163 BC. The Jewish revolt was from 167 BC to 160 BC, and they cleansed the temple

The 2300 days of Daniel 8 and the little horn activities are "time of the end".

Which eliminates Antiochus IV as being the litte horn. Also the little horn commits the "transgression of desolation" which is different than the abomination of desolation.

Antiochus IV is in Daniel 11 as being the person in Daniel 11:31 who placed the abomination of desolation in the temple. So Antiochus IV is referred to in bible prophecy. And he did defile the temple.

But Antiochus IV is not the time of the end little horn person who will both commit the "transgression of desolation" and will be involved in the "abomination of desolation" placed on the temple mount in the end times.

 

[Douggg]

Is it the Lord Himself, or is it "church-ianity"?

Please stop with the self created catch phrases. No-one is impressed, but yourself.

Anyone can come up with such catch phrases, such as....

Is it the Lord Himself, or is "Earburner-ism"?

 

[Earburner]

Please stop with the self created catch phrases. No-one is impressed, but yourself.

Anyone can come up with such catch phrases, such as....

Is it the Lord Himself, or is "Earburner-ism"?

I'm not doing anything. Through me, it's the Lord trying to get people's attention on a serious matter.
Though you may not understand, the words that rustle you, are given to me of the Lord, because He wants us all to "Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees" of our day!!

"On any biblical topic, there can always be more than one lie, but there can never be more than one truth." - Earburner.

What about you? Do you agree that the Hebrew meaning for the word "days", in the 2300 day prophecy, is correct scripture?
If so, then that prophecy should be counted by days, and not years.

Please review the following post #383 and then you decide which is correct in the Lord's eyes. Should the 2300 days be counted in "days" or "years"?
Here are the Hebrew words for "days", with their respective scriptures:
The 2300 days in the Strongs Hebrew:
H6152 Dan. 8:14
ערב
‛ereb
eh'-reb
From H6150; dusk
KJV Usage: + day, even (-ing, tide), night.

H3117 in Daniel 12:11-12.
יום
yôm
yome
From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially).
Do you agree or disagree with my post #383?