Where is the rule against discussion of the Trinity. I can't find it.
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Well, GodsGrace, you certainly started this post being disrespectful. However, I know what you are saying, because many do not understand what I am saying.
Let's suppose that an issue came up in scripture - one you saw one way while everyone else took a different understanding. Let's further suppose that you examined scripture - including non-translated interlinear manuscripts - to see what you can perceive as to why the English or Italian words don't match that the word definitions actually mean.
There is a dilemma that exists among church-goers that seems to be worldwide. On one hand, they find it much more convenient to believe that person with a seminary degree and not delve into personal research. On the other hand, the plain reading of your bible doesn't seem to jive with what you are hearing.
I'll assume you want to know the truth, but you are not certain what it is. And, heaven forbid you find out that the majority of the people around you disagree with you......
What I have personally discovered, people will claim to believe what the person next to them claims in true. That person is not bothered enough to go search it out. That person claims to believe the Bible.
On the other hand, peer pressure doesn't affect you and you want "the truth." So, you might fall back into believing your bible that "you have no need that anyone teach you." So, you take your question to God and wait on Him. If your relationship with God and His Son is what it is supposed to be, at some point in the future, the truth will comes as a conviction that you cannot ignore. You now "know." It comes from God's spirit in you and teaches you.
Now, no matter what the preacher or teacher tells you, their words fall flat as soon as they are uttered.
If you have never experienced this type of teaching, then it will be difficult to accept. When I had the conviction, even when I didn't want to accept it, God wouldn't let me. I've had only a few of those issues personally, but the peace with those issues are precious to me. All, I think, it takes is the drawing near to God and surrendering yourself totally to Him. It took me years to reach that point. I was rebellious, I was in ministry, and I had a degree of pride that I regret. So, the day I surrendered is like yesterday to me, but it was a long time ago.
When it comes to scripture study, I include ALL of scripture - no banned topics. I don't think God approves of censored scripture.
Oh, I can only feel saddened by that has been done to the scriptures and our bible translations. The bible on your table does not match the writings of the Apostles or Peter or James. Those writing have been passed through different languages, been added to, and had words mistranslated in order to support church-mandated doctrines. It is not at all difficult to find many of those changes. It is amazing that a whole belief can be dictated by the addition of a comma where it doesn't belong.
And then, to top it off, most of us cannot understand things because we are not 2000 years old Jews. We fail to study ancient Israel and their customs and methods. I see with "Western Eyes" and only think I understand.
That is why I depend only on God when I have questions. I start with a bible, then an interlinear, and then I have books in my library to help with my understanding.
After expending this effort to answer my questions, I give it to Yahweh to give me truth.
Learning these things transformed my walk with Christ.
No, if a topic is easy to dispute, it must be avoided. Kind of like a Kamala interview.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Certain subjects are always going to engender strong emotions. Trinity. Calvinism vs. Arminianism. The Hell doctrine. OSAS. And the Eschatology and Prophesy forum is that neighborhood you don't go into at night. Frankly, if we were more secure in what (and in Whom) we believe, we wouldn't get our panties in a wad when someone disagrees with us.
This is not what the noble Bereans did @Spyder.
Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Act 17:12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.
Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessaloni'ca, -- Originally, the Greek term used here denoted noble birth. It later came to refer to anyone who had royal bearing— people who were more refined and dignified.
for they received the word with all eagerness, -- The "word" they "received" was the word of God. It was the same teaching which had been given to the Jews in Thessalonica. The "eagerness" indicates they listened attentively with an open mind.
examining -- In nonjudicial contexts, the Greek term used here, anakrino, often deals with questioning and discernment (compare 1Co_2:15; 1Co_10:25). Even an Apostle’s word is not to be taken for granted. The noble Berœans were ready to listen, and then diligent to examine the grounds of what was said.
The word "examining" or "searching" is not the same as in the well-known passage Joh_5:39. The present verb has more the sense of examining and sifting evidence.
the scriptures daily to see if these things were so. -- The Scriptures (The Old Testament) were studied daily to see whether they really did speak of a Christ who should suffer and rise again.
Why does the writer call the Bereans "noble"?
1. The way they heard the word - v.11
2. The way they tested the word - v.11
3. The way they accepted the word - v. 12
With all readiness of mind (meta pāsēs prothumias). Old word from prothumos (pro, thumos) and means eagerness, rushing forward. In the N.T. only here and 2Co_8:11-19; 2Co_9:2. In Thessalonica many of the Jews out of pride and prejudice refused to listen. Here the Jews joyfully welcomed the two Jewish visitors.
Examining the Scriptures daily (kath' hēmeran anakrinontes tas graphas). Paul expounded the Scriptures daily as in Thessalonica, but the Beroeans, instead of resenting his new interpretation, examined (anakrinō means to sift up and down, make careful and exact research as in legal processes as in Act_4:9; Act_12:19, etc.) the Scriptures for themselves. In Scotland people have the Bible open on the preacher as he expounds the passage, a fine habit worth imitating.
Whether these things were so (ei echoi tauta houtōs). Literally, “if these things had it thus.” The present optative in the indirect question represents an original present indicative as in Luk_1:29 (Robertson, Grammar, pp. 1043f.). This use of ei with the optative may be looked at as the condition of the fourth class (undetermined with less likelihood of determination) as in Act_17:27; Act_20:16; Act_24:19; Act_27:12 (Robertson, Grammar, p. 1021). The Beroeans were eagerly interested in the new message of Paul and Silas but they wanted to see it for themselves. What a noble attitude. Paul’s preaching made Bible students of them. The duty of private interpretation is thus made plain (Hovey).
Robertson.
But who am I to judge your approach to searching the Scriptures?
What works for you doesn't necessarily work for me-wouldn’t you agree?
J.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I must respectfully disagree here.
I have witnessed discussions where 2 or more people all said they did this very thing, And God told them they were right. Now we all know they could nto all be right, so God could not have told them all.
The fact is,. God will hold us accountable.
if we blindly follow our church and our church was wrong. God will not blame the church and give us a pass
If we blindly follow a pastor or teacher. and the pastor or teacher is in error. God will not give us a pass and blame them
We are told to test each spirit, we are told to study to show ourselves approved. Listening to some voice and claiming that voice is God is not a good way to determine who is right or wrong. God will hold each of us personally accountable for how we interpret his word and use it. He will nto give us a pass because we follow some church, some denomination. Some religious organization. some pastor or some teacher.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
so your saying there is no way we can research and understand what is really said?
and that in reality, we can not read this word and get at least the basic message of what we need to know? That God allowed his word to get so tainted it is unusable today?
Yes, thats why we study, and study everything. That would go for any book written thousands of years ago if we weant to truly understand it as they did back then..
Which you should, Use everything, but do nto just discount the bible
I have heard many people say this, yet they still can not come to an agreement, there is a major flaw in this thinking
but do you have the truth? I do not know because I am not sure what you believe, but you telling me God told you will not convince me.. if anything, from experience, it gives me pause. because most people I hear say this again either get it wrong. or still can not come to agreement with others who say the same thing
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I was going to mention this also.. Its sad, and I was going to ask why just the trinity, I understand it causes fights. but some of these other cause far worse fights. so it must be deeper.
Then again, The mods and owners run this chat. we should nto question them.
Now one of those things you mentioned is a salvic issue.. And out of all of them, it should be held in more scruitiny. because get that issue wrong. you will not see God
Relying on "voices" maybe? Attributing this to either God [which one?] Jesus or the Holy Spirit?
J.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
What I say in any chatroom is my view. and my learning and understanding. I do not represent any church in this room.
However. I am a member, teacher, and lead a men's group at a local church in my city yes.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
You are aware that Satan is:
“…as a roaring lion, [who] walketh about, seeking whom he may devour…” (1 Peter 5:8, KJV)
I can’t imagine how you survive spiritual warfare without a Bible you can trust.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
satan comes as angel of light
Our flesh speaks to us
Just because we hear a voice does not mean it is God speaking.
if it was actually God. then we would probably all be in agreement. God will not contradict himself.
We all have our own views, learning, understanding, and opinions, right? However, we’re not very open about which church we’re fellowshipping with. While each of us believes we possess the truth, the members of the body truly need one another-there are no lone rangers, correct?
J.
Behold
Well-Known Member
And So do these topics... fan the flames of fighting.
Mary
Water Baptism
Catholic Theology
OSAS
You can Lose your Salvation
Calvinism
Hell is not real
Errors in the Bible
Just those 8 topics alone... if they were restricted from discussion, would resolve, 95% of the fighting that is never ending on this Forum, because those Topics, just like "IS Jesus God", cannot be resolved in peace.
So, get rid of them, as there are more things to discuss, regarding the word of God, but you'd never know it on This Forum.
Bob
Well-Known Member
Thank you for your comments.
For what it is worth, I find that St. Steven’s posts challenge me to understand scripture more thoroughly. Since I am secure in my faith, I am not bothered by off questions and comments.
Nonetheless, your perspective is important. Indeed, there is a least one member whose posts strike me as intentionally sacrilegious, and I reported one of them to the staff. Now, I simply ignore all posts from that person.
Does 1 Corinthians 8 speak to this issue? Are we assuming some forum members are so weak in their faith, the posts from SS will damage them? Perhaps you might could offer a post in the spirit of 1 Corinthians 8, and test it. I would welcome the discussion.
Peace and blessings.
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