The curious case of John 5:4

[St. SteVen]

I am derailing this thread? It's been "hijacked" a long time ago.

Your sarcasm noted.

I would like to see your answer to the two questions.

GodsGrace said:
You practically answered your own question in the last paragraph.
This is really derailing the thread....
so I'll just ask 2 questions, which you've really already answered:
1. Is the bible the only way to know about God?
2. Are only knowledgeable persons going to heaven - or anyone that believes in our Lord?

[

 

[GodsGrace]

I am derailing this thread? It's been "hijacked" a long time ago.

Your sarcasm noted.

J.

How is stating a fact sarcasm?

I DID reply to your post.
However, this thread IS being derailed.

 

[GodsGrace]

I would like to see your answer to the two questions.

GodsGrace said:
You practically answered your own question in the last paragraph.
This is really derailing the thread....
so I'll just ask 2 questions, which you've really already answered:
1. Is the bible the only way to know about God?
2. Are only knowledgeable persons going to heaven - or anyone that believes in our Lord?

[

1. God can be known by reading the bible.
By noting creation and how special it is and how it requires a "builder".
By HEARING the word of God....in a church, from someone witnessing, must be other ways I can't think of right now.

2. No. ALL persons that believe God exists and live for Him will be in heaven.
NOT only the knowledgeable folk and theologians.

Know what's so great about the bible?
A 10 years old can read it and glean a lot from it....
A theologian can study it for years and there would still be more to learn.

As I said in the post just above this to @Matthias....
it's the heart condition that counts.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I agree-and as you can see yourself, there’s a noticeable lack of love for the Scriptures, which is definitely a red flag.

J.

Sadly people want to think they have the truth, and God speaks to them personally.. so they do not need the word

 

[Johann]

I would like to see your answer to the two questions.

GodsGrace said:
You practically answered your own question in the last paragraph.
This is really derailing the thread....
so I'll just ask 2 questions, which you've really already answered:
1. Is the bible the only way to know about God?
2. Are only knowledgeable persons going to heaven - or anyone that believes in our Lord?

[

How about you lot answering questions-you can start right here, the cliche of your threads.

J.

 

[Ritajanice]

I'm going to have to side with @Ritajanice because I don't think you're understanding her statement.

I THINK she's saying that we have to know God in a personal way....as the bible states IN OUR HEART....
God will give us a new heart and we will all know without having to learn from our neighbors.
Ezekiel 36(?)
Jeremiah 31

Many read the bible and NEVER come a saving knowledge of God.

God must be known in our heart....
THEN the bible helps us to know Him better....

Or
We can read the bible FIRST, and then come a saving knowledge that is heart-felt...

However, in each case,,,it's the heart that saved.

Romans 10:9-10
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and if you believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, you will be saved. We believe with our hearts, and so we are made right with God.

Well explained,Sister, I believe the Lord is calling me away from this thread.
May you continue to grow in the knowledge of our Lord and saviour, may he Bless you abundantly as you walk in his truth and Love, this also applies to @Matthias and everyone else who participated in the topic.

Love reigns.,.Gods Love!

 

[Johann]

Sadly people want to think they have the truth, and God speaks to them personally.. so they do not need the word

Glad you can discern this @Eternally Grateful.

J.

 

[GodsGrace]

I would like to see your answer to the two questions.

GodsGrace said:
You practically answered your own question in the last paragraph.
This is really derailing the thread....
so I'll just ask 2 questions, which you've really already answered:
1. Is the bible the only way to know about God?
2. Are only knowledgeable persons going to heaven - or anyone that believes in our Lord?

[

Oops...I think you meant this for Johann....
Saw my name and went for it!!!

 

[Ritajanice]

As I said in the post just above this to @Matthias....
it's the heart condition that counts.

I just couldn’t resist this last shout out....AMEN !!!

 

[GodsGrace]

Sadly people want to think they have the truth, and God speaks to them personally.. so they do not need the word

NO EG....
this is not fair.
You know very well that the bible is needed to discuss apologetics, theology and the such.
You and I do this a lot, both on topics we agree on and those we have differences on (not too many of those thankfully).
When I discuss such matters, I post scripture....
I don't give my opinion.


But this is not what is being stated.
What is being stated is whether or not one has to have and read a bible TO BE SAVED.

If so, what about those Christians that never had a bible?
This is really what I'm saying....
You know, it's unfortunate that we can't read every post of each member and so we don't get a really complete picture....

 

[Johann]

How is stating a fact sarcasm?

I DID reply to your post.
However, this thread IS being derailed.

Yes, it IS being derailed-not by me and a desire to divorce the Scripture from the Christ when they are indissolubly Echad.

I am done with @St. SteVen' threads and all who cast doubts on the Scriptures.

Incredible what is going on here-no need to respond.

J.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I'm going to have to side with @Ritajanice because I don't think you're understanding her statement.

I THINK she's saying that we have to know God in a personal way....as the bible states IN OUR HEART....
God will give us a new heart and we will all know without having to learn from our neighbors.
Ezekiel 36(?)
Jeremiah 31

Many read the bible and NEVER come a saving knowledge of God.

God must be known in our heart....
THEN the bible helps us to know Him better....

Or
We can read the bible FIRST, and then come a saving knowledge that is heart-felt...

However, in each case,,,it's the heart that saved.

Romans 10:9-10
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and if you believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, you will be saved. We believe with our hearts, and so we are made right with God.

She is not exactly saying this though sis.

She is saying we do not need the bible in fact. I think I heard her say it is not even reliable.. WOW

 

[GodsGrace]

She is not exactly saying this though sis.

She is saying we do not need the bible in fact. I think I heard her say it is not even reliable.. WOW

She gave me a LOVE so I don't know,,,I think I posted her thoughts correctly and she agreed.

Like I said,,,posts are too far between and it could get confusing as to what is being said.
She's saying that the bible is not needed in order TO BE SAVED.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Glad you can discern this @Eternally Grateful.

J.

I have seen it

Hang around chatrooms long enough and you will hear people say they believe that passage says what they believe because God told them.. Then you have 2 or three say the same thing, yet they are no where near agreement, God could not be talking to all of them.

 

[Matthias]

I'm going to have to side with @Ritajanice because I don't think you're understanding her statement.

I THINK she's saying that we have to know God in a personal way....as the bible states IN OUR HEART....
God will give us a new heart and we will all know without having to learn from our neighbors.
Ezekiel 36(?)
Jeremiah 31

Many read the bible and NEVER come a saving knowledge of God.

God must be known in our heart....
THEN the bible helps us to know Him better....

Or
We can read the bible FIRST, and then come a saving knowledge that is heart-felt...

However, in each case,,,it's the heart that saved.

Romans 10:9-10
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and if you believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, you will be saved. We believe with our hearts, and so we are made right with God.

I simply stated that the two go together.

If someone doesn’t know (or doesn’t trust) what is written in the Bible then he or she is going to speak things “out of the abundance of the heart” that are patently false.

The low view of the Bible some have should be setting off alarm bells.

I don’t think anyone has said that we don’t have to know God in a personal way. If someone has, I missed it.

 

[GodsGrace]

She is not exactly saying this though sis.

She is saying we do not need the bible in fact. I think I heard her say it is not even reliable.. WOW

PS
See my post no. 486

 

[GodsGrace]

I have seen it

Hang around chatrooms long enough and you will hear people say they believe that passage says what they believe because God told them.. Then you have 2 or three say the same thing, yet they are no where near agreement, God could not be talking to all of them.

The above is not for me,,,but you know I agree with you on this.

 

[GodsGrace]

I simply stated that the two go together.

If someone doesn’t know (or doesn’t trust) what is written in the Bible then he or she is going to speak things “out of the abundance of the heart” that are patently false.

The low view of the Bible some have should be setting off alarm bells.

OK
I agree.
Let me repeat since it's not easy posting on these threads:

1. A person can be saved sans the bible.

2. The bible is God's revelation to His creation (us) and we have much to learn from it.
The bible is reliable and SHOULD be read and used by Christians that are able to.

3. To say that there is NO ERROR (not even one) in the bible will lead many astray if they study and find that it does have some facts that may not be exactly true. But the error does not lie on God...but on man.

 

[St. SteVen]

I am done with @St. SteVen' threads and all who cast doubts on the Scriptures.

Not exactly gospel, but it is good news. - LOL





[

 

[Eternally Grateful]

NO EG....
this is not fair.

Yes it is fair and I have witnessed it far to offten

You know very well that the bible is needed to discuss apologetics, theology and the such.

Teel that to @Ritajanice Thats the very core of our discussion

You and I do this a lot, both on topics we agree on and those we have differences on (not too many of those thankfully).
When I discuss such matters, I post scripture....
I don't give my opinion.

But we also both have our own interpretation of the scripture we post.. so in effect. we are giving our opinion.

But that is not the discussion here, the discussion is do we need the bible..

But this is not what is being stated.
What is being stated is whether or not one has to have and read a bible TO BE SAVED.

I think we all answered this question. On both sides. At least from what I saw.

but sadly. some are taking it even after we are saved, and that is the current discussion

If so, what about those Christians that never had a bible?
This is really what I'm saying....
You know, it's unfortunate that we can't read every post of each member and so we don't get a really complete picture....

I agree, and see that alot. But as for the member we are discussing. I have heard her and what she believes for along time now. we used to be close. until I questioned her one day. then all hell broke lose and I am now the enemy.

be careful