Daniel Chapter 8 - the 2300 evenings and mornings prophecy

[CTK]

no the sanctuary in hebrews is the earthly one. So is daniel it will be the third temple that needs cleansing

We are all entitled to our own interpretations.

 

[ChristinaL]

We are all entitled to our own interpretations.

Its not mine- it doesnt take a genius scholar to know those passages are speaking of the earthly sanctuary. How dare anybody be foolish enough to suggest God's heavenly sanctuary needs cleansing?

 

[Marty fox]

What Jesus spoke of on the Olivet discourse has nothing whatever to with end times. There is a 7 year Tribulation and there will be an antichrist

Yes I agree the Olivet Discourse has nothing to do with the end times as for the 7 year tribulation it isn't found anywhere in the bible including in revelation and the term antichrist isn't found anywhere in revelation either.

 

[CTK]

Daniel 9 including verse 27. Dan 12...actually check these out

Antichrist: 6 Bible Verses

Antichrist, false messiah, deceiver: what does the Bible have to say? Read the top six Bible verses on antichrist.

www.logos.com

What is the end times tribulation? How do we know the tribulation will last seven years? | GotQuestions.org

What is the tribulation? How do we know the tribulation will last seven years? What are the events that will occur during the end times tribulation?

www.gotquestions.org

Verse 9:27 is about the Messiah. The “he” is Jesus. Please read #303 above. Didn

Daniel 9 including verse 27. Dan 12...actually check these out

Antichrist: 6 Bible Verses

Antichrist, false messiah, deceiver: what does the Bible have to say? Read the top six Bible verses on antichrist.

www.logos.com

What is the end times tribulation? How do we know the tribulation will last seven years? | GotQuestions.org

What is the tribulation? How do we know the tribulation will last seven years? What are the events that will occur during the end times tribulation?

www.gotquestions.org

The entire Chapter 9 is about the restoration of God’s people, His city and everything that needed to be forgiven / restored after they disobeyed God and was punished for 70 years.

God gave Daniel this prophecy to reveal this “restoration” process. He told them what was to be restored, who was responsible for restoring the different elements and the exact timing they would be restored.

Within this most important prophecy is the revealing of the coming Messiah and His mission to fulfill (9:24). The positive or restorative verses are found in 24 and 25.

However, God also knew His people would reject His Messiah. This would require two additional verses, 26 and 27, which are both “destructive” verses.

These two verses reveal the destruction of the exact same elements that were restored in 24 and 25. That is, the destruction of the city, the Temple, all the physical elements that the Jews restored during the first 69 weeks of the prophecy. And Jesus would arrive on the first day of the 70th week and He would restore the Presence of God (Ark of the Covenant) in the Sanctuary.

So, we should not consider adding any new (mythical anti-Christ figures), or old (AE) characters to this prophecy. Verses 24 and 25 mirror verses 26 and 27 - one set restorative, one set destructive, but speaking to the exact same elements.

Chapter 9 is a messianic prophecy written for those who would be returning to Jerusalem and would be awaiting their Messiah.

Do your own chiastic structure for these 4 verses - you will easily see how they were purposefully constructed by he way they were.

 

[Earburner]

Antiochus IV.died in what is now Iran, not Iraq.

Which is different from where the willful king of Daniel11:36 will meet his end in Daniel 11:45, which will be on God's holy mountain- the temple mount.

The little horn person of Daniel 8:25 will attempt to make war against the Princes of princes - Jesus. Which is what the beast-king of Revelation 16:13-14. Revelation 19:19 will attempt to do. But will be broken.

Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.


Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

"his image" is the time of the end abomination of desolation statue image of Daniel 12:11-12.

.

Paraphrased> "Your/our faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, [aka "church-ianity"], because it is not the power [authority] of God". 1 Cor. 2:5

Therefore, "church-ianity" loves to make a "word salad" out of the OC. and the NC. scriptures, by blending prophecies that have been fulfilled, to those that are not fulfilled.
1 Cor. 2:5
Until you escape "the leaven of the Pharisees" of our modern day, you have not heeded "the mind of Christ" within you.
1 John 2
[27] But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

 

[ChristinaL]

Verse 9:27 is about the Messiah. The “he” is Jesus. Please read #303 above. Didn

The entire Chapter 9 is about the restoration of God’s people, His city and everything that needed to be forgiven / restored after they disobeyed God and was punished for 70 years.

God gave Daniel this prophecy to reveal this “restoration” process. He told them what was to be restored, who was responsible for restoring the different elements and the exact timing they would be restored.

Within this most important prophecy is the revealing of the coming Messiah and His mission to fulfill (9:24). The positive or restorative verses are found in 24 and 25.

However, God also knew His people would reject His Messiah. This would require two additional verses, 26 and 27, which are both “destructive” verses.

These two verses reveal the destruction of the exact same elements that were restored in 24 and 25. That is, the destruction of the city, the Temple, all the physical elements that the Jews restored during the first 69 weeks of the prophecy. And Jesus would arrive on the first day of the 70th week and He would restore the Presence of God (Ark of the Covenant) in the Sanctuary.

So, we should not consider adding any new (mythical anti-Christ figures), or old (AE) characters to this prophecy. Verses 24 and 25 mirror verses 26 and 27 - one set restorative, one set destructive, but speaking to the exact same elements.

Chapter 9 is a messianic prophecy written for those who would be returning to Jerusalem and would be awaiting their Messiah.

Do your own chiastic structure for these 4 verses - you will easily see how they were purposefully constructed by he way they were.

Daniel 9:27 is the last week of the 70 weeks and it hasnt happened yet. The ac will institute a peace treaty with many for 7 years. And the sanctuary has yet to be rebuilt. In the midst of that 70th week the antichrist will put an end to the animal sacrifices which the Jews will restart once the temple is built. I can very easily understand how those verses are arranged. why cant you

 

[Earburner]

We are all entitled to our own interpretations.

You might want to reconsider your words.
John 14
[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 4
[23] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit AND in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
[24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit AND in truth.

1 John 2
[27] But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him

1 Cor. 2
[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men [church-ianity], but in the power [anointing] of God.

Rom. 8
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

On any biblical topic: "There can always be more than one lie, but there can never be more than one truth"- Earburner

 

[1stCenturyLady]

There is absolutely nothing in the Book of Daniel that speaks to AE, the Ptolemy's,

Yes there is. He is the little horn of chapter 8.

 

[Earburner]

Daniel 9:27 is the last week of the 70 weeks and it hasnt happened yet. The ac will institute a peace treaty with many for 7 years. And the sanctuary has yet to be rebuilt. In the midst of that 70th week the antichrist will put an end to the animal sacrifices which the Jews will restart once the temple is built. I can very easily understand how those verses are arranged. why cant you

Have you considered that the concept you hold to, is a concept that is fabricated by "the wisdom of men", being that of "church-ianity"? 1 Cor. 2:5.

"Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees" [of our modern day].

 

[ewq1938]

Yes I agree the Olivet Discourse has nothing to do with the end times as for the 7 year tribulation it isn't found anywhere in the bible including in revelation and the term antichrist isn't found anywhere in revelation either.

antichrist is not the only name/term for that person though. Rev uses different ones for him as does every other book outside of the epistles of John.

 

[Earburner]

Verse 9:27 is about the Messiah. The “he” is Jesus. Please read #303 above. Didn

The entire Chapter 9 is about the restoration of God’s people, His city and everything that needed to be forgiven / restored after they disobeyed God and was punished for 70 years.

God gave Daniel this prophecy to reveal this “restoration” process. He told them what was to be restored, who was responsible for restoring the different elements and the exact timing they would be restored.

Within this most important prophecy is the revealing of the coming Messiah and His mission to fulfill (9:24). The positive or restorative verses are found in 24 and 25.

However, God also knew His people would reject His Messiah. This would require two additional verses, 26 and 27, which are both “destructive” verses.

These two verses reveal the destruction of the exact same elements that were restored in 24 and 25. That is, the destruction of the city, the Temple, all the physical elements that the Jews restored during the first 69 weeks of the prophecy. And Jesus would arrive on the first day of the 70th week and He would restore the Presence of God (Ark of the Covenant) in the Sanctuary.

So, we should not consider adding any new (mythical anti-Christ figures), or old (AE) characters to this prophecy. Verses 24 and 25 mirror verses 26 and 27 - one set restorative, one set destructive, but speaking to the exact same elements.

Chapter 9 is a messianic prophecy written for those who would be returning to Jerusalem and would be awaiting their Messiah.

Do your own chiastic structure for these 4 verses - you will easily see how they were purposefully constructed by he way they were.

Hmmm...what shall you do with the following scriptures, as it relates to the Temple, sanctuary, and it's restoration process ["elements"?]:
John 2
[18] Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
[21] But he spake of the temple of his body.
[22] When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

 

[CTK]

Hmmm...what shall you do with the following scriptures, as it relates to the Temple, sanctuary, and it's restoration process ["elements"?]:
John 2
[18] Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
[21] But he spake of the temple of his body.
[22] When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here. As I mentioned about a million times, the 4 verses in Chapter 9 speak of the full restoration after Babylon and the complete destruction after the cross.....

I would ask you to look in the verses in both chapters 7 and 8 that describe the characteristics / attributes / actions, etc.. (quite clear) that the little horn of Daniel 7 and 8 will do against God, His people, His church, His saints, etc. This is the one that is clearly coming out of the 4th kingdom of pagan Rome and is also the same one that is referred to as "exceedingly great" in chapter 8.

 

[CTK]

antichrist is not the only name/term for that person though. Rev uses different ones for him as does every other book outside of the epistles of John.

There are times in the NT that refer to the "spirit of the anti-Christ," but there is never a verse that identifies this "spirit of the anti-Christ" as a literal figure. However, in Daniel, God does go to great lengths to reveal and identify the "little horn" who has eyes, a mouth speaking pompous things, and do more against His church, His people, His saints and also speak against God Himself. This is the one that had come out of the 4th beast kingdom in Chapter 7. That kingdom was of course pagan Rome. And if you notice that in verse 7:11. Daniel tells us this 4th beast kingdom will indeed be slain and its body is destroyed. What does that mean and why would God tell us such a clear comment like that? It means the 4th beast kingdom would indeed be a divided kingdom. And around 476 AD, pagan Rome would indeed fall and cease to be....

This means the "little horn" who came out of pagan Rome HAD TO SURFACE OR COME ONTO THE SCENE BEFORE IT WAS SLAIN IN 476 AD/
God clearly provides the "time brackets" for all to see - he arrived out of the 4th kingdom (after the cross) and this was well before pagan Rome was slain. There is only one person that fits this timeline and again, Chapters 7 and 8 offer a very accurate and detailed description of his actions that he will continue until His second coming. He will be destroyed without human hands - God will indeed destroy him.

 

[ewq1938]

There are times in the NT that refer to the "spirit of the anti-Christ," but there is never a verse that identifies this "spirit of the anti-Christ" as a literal figure.

This is a strawman fallacy. No one things a spirit is a literal person. The bible speaks of the AC as a literal person. You are conflating two sepaarte things and denying one of them and using the other as false proof.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

He says "now" there were many antichrists but does specifically speak of one certain antichrist (singular) that was yet to come (future arrival) which means John believed there was a future Antichrist. This is known as "the Antichrist" which is a specific Antichrist among all those who are antichrists.

 

[Bladerunner]

So 9:27 is not speaking to the Messiah?

Correct!

1) Did He not “confirm” the New Covenant prophesied in Jeremiah 31:31-34? If not, then who, when was this “confirmed?” Wasn’t the NC given to any and all at Pentecost?

and to everyone that has been justified since that time....Yes, this includes both Gentile and Jewish people...but it is limited those who God has justified....

2) In the “middle or midst” of the last week in the 70 weeks of years prophecy” wasn’t the Messiah “cut off (crucified), and as a result? His perfect sacrifice would put to an end any further need for animal sacrifices and offerings under the Levitical system?

No, verse 26 speaks of the messiah being cut off after the 69 weeks have ended with Him riding into Jerusalem. "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: ...." Here is the second step of Gabriels prophecy. The first part (7 weeks) in verse 25, for after the commandment to restore the city and the streets,/ walls, etcs, it took 49 years to complete this. Thus, verse 26 starts with "threescore and 2 weeks" which total 69 weeks. Notice, no further mention of the last 7 weeks is given in this part of the prophecy. We also see that Jesus was not crucified for himself but all of those who He die for to pay the price for their sins.
and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; The prince IS NOT JESUS nor is the people Jewish. The Prince is Titus Vespasian, the the people are gentiles of the area who joined the Roman Army.
and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined." Of course the Roman Army (4th, 5th and 10th legions ) had it surrounded would run over the city as a flood and of course the end to any war is desolation of the area. (

3) As a direct result of His people rejecting and crucifying their Messiah, did not God turn away from His people for the next 2000 years (Time of the Gentiles)? Did not God “make desolate” Himself from His people?

4) Hasn’t God “made desolate” His relationship with His people… until the end of the “time of the Gentiles?” It has still yet to come to an end.

Yes, the Jewish people were blinded until the "times of the Gentiles" has ended. Jesus did this as He road into Jerusalem on April 6th 32 AD.....WHY? Because they should have known His coming on this specific day, they did not and God is holding them accountable for not knowing. Yes, the "times of the Gentiles" will not end as long as there is any gentile involvement in the city of Jerusalem. This end happens at the Battle of Armageddon on Jesus' 2nd Advent.

5) Don’t you find just how accurate these prophecies match to the actual events that took place in the last week of the prophecy?

The Last week, verse 27 has a pause within it...It has not started yet.....but is very close to happening....There are many prophecies that need to happen before Daniel's 70th week can start..You should know them.....

The beginning of the 70th week is all about His ministry, His mission, His crucifixion. And within the prophecy, God will also give us the consequences of His crucifixion to the “physical” elements that will be destroyed.

Nope

6) Can you see in 24 and 25 of Chapter 9 how God speaks to the “restoration” of everything from Babylon, while 26 and 27 speak to THEIR destruction because they rejected their Messiah

Nope, The restoration of Babylon is in Revelation and Dan's 70 week but it has not happened yet.

7) Have you considered that after God puts the the second and the third kingdoms in the rear view mirror (11:1-4), He then continues with the most important kingdom - the 4th or pagan Rome, and begins to reveal this same last week of the prophecy, and then almost all of Chapter 11 speaks to the consequences AFTER the cross to the coming of the “vile” one (the little horn prophesied in Daniel 7 and 8?

8) Simply try and look for the Messiah within these chapter and verses and not anyone else that might be found in our history books. God is giving us His prophecies about His Messiah through the travels of His people from their exile to the complete restoration of His people, His city, His Temple, etc. through the literal 4 kingdoms that has ALL been designed by God to reveal the timing, purpose and consequences of His first coming. NOTHING else is more important than these prophetic events. Almost all of “today’s accepted interpretations” focus either on our historical characters in the past (prior to the cross), or fictitious characters that come more than 2000 years in the future (from the time of the cross).

Step back and ask yourself why God is having Daniel record these prophecies that WILL AND HAVE taken place at the time of the cross.

You do not have to accept ANYONE of my interpretations, but everyone should consider just who, when and why this prophetic book is written to and for!!!

Leave your history books in the history section of the library, they are not needed in this section of the library (religious section). God has given us all the historical information we need to consider around His people’s return to Jerusalem, their complete restoration, His arrival and death, the consequences of their decision and the coming of the little horn who will appropriate His church and preach a very different gospel for over 1500 years!

Look for Jesus in these prophecies- you really can’t miss Him… unless you have brought your history books …

None of the above is correct, you are sending people down the wrong road. a false teacher...Hopefully you do not preach as well.

 

[CTK]

This is a strawman fallacy. No one things a spirit is a literal person. The bible speaks of the AC as a literal person. You are conflating two sepaarte things and denying one of them and using the other as false proof.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

He says "now" there were many antichrists but does specifically speak of one certain antichrist (singular) that was yet to come (future arrival) which means John believed there was a future Antichrist. This is known as "the Antichrist" which is a specific Antichrist among all those who are antichrists.

No, he is not speaking to a literal single figure here. And I would ask that you consider just why God would specifically call out and identify the coming little horn who would go against everything of Christ.

John also uses the term more broadly in his letters to refer to anyone who denies Jesus as the Christ or opposes His teachings. Example: "Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist" (1 John 2:22). Here, "antichrists" are those who spread teachings contrary to Christ’s message. John emphasizes that these "antichrists" had already emerged within the community, indicating that anyone who denies Christ’s nature or role fits this description.

 

[CTK]

Correct!

and to everyone that has been justified since that time....Yes, this includes both Gentile and Jewish people...but it is limited those who God has justified....

No, verse 26 speaks of the messiah being cut off after the 69 weeks have ended with Him riding into Jerusalem. "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: ...." Here is the second step of Gabriels prophecy. The first part (7 weeks) in verse 25, for after the commandment to restore the city and the streets,/ walls, etcs, it took 49 years to complete this. Thus, verse 26 starts with "threescore and 2 weeks" which total 69 weeks. Notice, no further mention of the last 7 weeks is given in this part of the prophecy. We also see that Jesus was not crucified for himself but all of those who He die for to pay the price for their sins.
and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; The prince IS NOT JESUS nor is the people Jewish. The Prince is Titus Vespasian, the the people are gentiles of the area who joined the Roman Army.
and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined." Of course the Roman Army (4th, 5th and 10th legions ) had it surrounded would run over the city as a flood and of course the end to any war is desolation of the area. (

Yes, the Jewish people were blinded until the "times of the Gentiles" has ended. Jesus did this as He road into Jerusalem on April 6th 32 AD.....WHY? Because they should have known His coming on this specific day, they did not and God is holding them accountable for not knowing. Yes, the "times of the Gentiles" will not end as long as there is any gentile involvement in the city of Jerusalem. This end happens at the Battle of Armageddon on Jesus' 2nd Advent.

The Last week, verse 27 has a pause within it...It has not started yet.....but is very close to happening....There are many prophecies that need to happen before Daniel's 70th week can start..You should know them.....

Nope

Nope, The restoration of Babylon is in Revelation and Dan's 70 week but it has not happened yet.

None of the above is correct, you are sending people down the wrong road. a false teacher...Hopefully you do not preach as well.

Okay and thanks.

 

[Earburner]

antichrist is not the only name/term for that person though. Rev uses different ones for him as does every other book outside of the epistles of John.

Though there is "that spirit of antichrist", one should know that in the KJV, there are NO such words as "The Antichrist", meaning in the singular.

1 John 4
[3] And every [plural] spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

1 John 2
[18] Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that [spirit of] antichrist shall come, even now are [plural] there many [plural] antichrists [plural]; whereby we know that it is the last time.

 

[ewq1938]

Though there is "that spirit of antichrist", one should know that in the KJV, there are NO such words as "The Antichrist", meaning in the singular.

Of course there is:

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

He says "now" there were many antichrists but does specifically speak of one certain antichrist (singular) that was yet to come (future arrival) which means John believed there was a future Antichrist. This is known as "the Antichrist" which is a specific Antichrist among all those who are antichrists.


Go ahead and ignore that last sentence again.

 

[ewq1938]

No, he is not speaking to a literal single figure here.

Wrong. He is speaking of one specific person there, in Greek and any language it's translated into.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.