Are we saved by certainty, or by faith? - the mystery of salvation

[Wick Stick]

Were we saved by grace through certainty, or saved by grace through faith?

Neither one is a good translation of Ephesians 2:8.

This verse cannot be translated into English word-for-word. The word translated "saved" is a perfect-participle, and English just doesn't have that as a single word. To get the English equivalent you either need a whole 'nother sentence, or you must substitute a noun with the same meaning.

By grace you are [in a state of safety as a result of God resurrecting you] - has the correct meaning.

It doesn't quite roll off the tongue, though.

 

[Corlove]

Faith is not required to believe a certainty.

How much energy do we expend attempting to promote salvation as a certainty?

All the reams of apologetics to make the mystery of faith appear to be a certainty.

Were we saved by grace through certainty, or saved by grace through faith?

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When you are born again I believe you will know.
And if you remain in Him I believe you should continue to know.

So what is Salvation
It means deliverence, delivered, deliverer

I would think you know you are delivered when you have- >peace

Scripture says something like: evaluate yourself to see if you are of the faith....don't you know that Christ is in you otherwise you failed the test.

 

[St. SteVen]

When you are born again I believe you will know.
And if you remain in Him I believe you should continue to know.

So what is Salvation
It means deliverence, delivered, deliverer

I would think you know you are delivered when you have- >peace

Scripture says something like: evaluate yourself to see if you are of the faith....don't you know that Christ is in you otherwise you failed the test.

Welcome to the forum.

The topic is meant to be thought-provoking. I don't question my salvation.
My concern is with those that think it needs to be based on some tangible certainty.
That's not what faith is.

Can you properly quote and reference the scripture you referred to?

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[KUWN]

I would think you know you are delivered when you have- >peace

The certainty of salvation is not based on a feeling like peace, although you may feel peace. The certainty of salvation is based on what the Word of God says.

 

[St. SteVen]

The certainty of salvation is not based on a feeling like peace, although you may feel peace. The certainty of salvation is based on what the Word of God says.

Is anyone certain about what the "Word of God" says? (no consensus)

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[Eternally Grateful]

Neither one is a good translation of Ephesians 2:8.

This verse cannot be translated into English word-for-word. The word translated "saved" is a perfect-participle, and English just doesn't have that as a single word. To get the English equivalent you either need a whole 'nother sentence, or you must substitute a noun with the same meaning.

By grace you are [in a state of safety as a result of God resurrecting you] - has the correct meaning.

It doesn't quite roll off the tongue, though.

The whole of eph 2: 5 - 8 is an amazing text when we look in the greek. I agree, it can not be properly translated in a word for word translation like most of the bibles are.

 

[Ritajanice]

s anyone certain about what the "Word of God" says? (no consensus)

Brother, if I may answer, certainty of being Born Again, comes from the heart of God, delivered straight to the spirit of man/ woman.,the Bible can’t give you that certainty..it can only confirm it.

We are Born Again by divine heart revelation, which the Bible confirms.

No one can prove their certainty ,that they have been Born Of God’s seed.. it’s between God and his child....we rest in his Spirit, knowing that truth..by his witness, the Living Holy Spirit, who witnesses that truth to our heart,all day every day.

 

[KUWN]

Is anyone certain about what the "Word of God" says? (no consensus)

1 John 5.13
There is no denying that we can "KNOW" we have eternal life. What you are doing in my opinion is trying to hide the fundamental clarity of Scripture.

 

[St. SteVen]

1 John 5.13
There is no denying that we can "KNOW" we have eternal life. What you are doing in my opinion is trying to hide the fundamental clarity of Scripture.

How do we know?
We have already discussed this. (to no avail)

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[St. SteVen]

Brother, if I may answer, certainty of being Born Again, comes from the heart of God, delivered straight to the spirit of man/ woman.,the Bible can’t give you that certainty..it can only confirm it.

We are Born Again by divine heart revelation, which the Bible confirms.

No one can prove their certainty ,that they have been Born Of God’s seed.. it’s between God and his child....we rest in his Spirit, knowing that truth..by his witness, the Living Holy Spirit, who witnesses that truth to our heart,all day every day.

Right.
It is our personal divine encounter that makes the difference.
Only then will the Bible begin to unfold itself to us.
The indwelling Spirit makes the words of the Bible alive to our thirsty souls.

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[Ritajanice]

Right.
It is our personal divine encounter that makes the difference.
Only then will the Bible begin to unfold itself to us.
The indwelling Spirit makes the words of the Bible alive to our thirsty souls.

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100% Amen..we received this.

The Spirit testifies with “ our spirit” that we are Gods children...Flesh gives birth to flesh= human birth.

Spirit gives birth to spirit=Born Again...it’s our spirit that is Born Again..the Bible confirms it...we are Born Of The Spirit..we are not Born Of the Bible.

The Living Holy Spirit “ permanently” indwells our spirit..therefore he continually witnesses that truth to our heart all day every day...we are Born Of God’s seed..

 

[St. SteVen]

It is our personal divine encounter that makes the difference.
Only then will the Bible begin to unfold itself to us.
The indwelling Spirit makes the words of the Bible alive to our thirsty souls.

On the other hand I have heard testimonies of some who have found God by getting their hands on a Bible and were so hungry for answers that they were guided into truth. But that is the exception, not the rule. At some point they need to become a part of the Body of Christ with other believers.

Why I hate the Bible... Or so they say?

Nonsense. I don't hate the Bible... Or do I? I do hate the misuse. And I warn about Bibliolatry. I'm concerned about inflated (and false) claims about the book. And the general ignorance about where the Bible came from. Caused by a church that has suppressed the truth about it. Probably...

www.christianityboard.com

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[KUWN]

How do we know?
We have already discussed this. (to no avail)

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Because God's word says so. I am certain of the Bible's validity and its doctrines. If for some reason I couldn't know if I was certain, this verse would have to be explained. And, if you explained this before, I am sorry, I don't recall it.

Also, the Holy Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are sons of God

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How do we know?
We have already discussed this. (to no avail)

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How do we know?

1. Jesus told us whoever believes has eternal life
2. John said he wrote a bunch of stuff to us. and he wrote them so we may know we have eternal life

If you do not know. then I would question if I have it or not..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Right.
It is our personal divine encounter that makes the difference.
Only then will the Bible begin to unfold itself to us.
The indwelling Spirit makes the words of the Bible alive to our thirsty souls.

[

if this is true, then alot of people will think they are saved, because they had some encounter that thought was from God.

It takes more than just this..

 

[Ritajanice]

Right.
It is our personal divine encounter that makes the difference.
Only then will the Bible begin to unfold itself to us.
The indwelling Spirit makes the words of the Bible alive to our thirsty souls

Again,Amen!...The Spirit reveals himself by divine revelation, to our heart, we have become Born Again by the power of the Holy Spirit, he raises our spirit from death to life in Christ.

We are his spirit children, we then start the process of communicating with him via our spirit....we are led by the Spirit, to understand the written word.
.Have you noticed how we grow and mature in the spirit..as in our behaviour ?

The Bible words cant make you grow and mature,,,only the Living Spirit can teach us to do that.

Our hearts must be receptive to the Spirit, open your heart to God with sincerity ,he will reveal more and more of his heart to us.
If we stay in self mode, we will never grow and mature..does that make sense ,Brother?

We are being changed from within our heart, into the glorious image of Jesus , let his Spirit shine out of our hearts.....let his Spirit also, be given all the glory!...we should be honoured and privileged.., to have the Living God working in our hearts..Praise His Holy Name!

1 John 3

King James Version

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3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

 

[Ritajanice]

Here is another example @St. SteVen ...who showed me my flesh, flesh talk, flesh behaviours...the Spirit of course, revealed it to my heart,by divine heart revelation..

``The flesh lusts against the spirit'' means these desires, to do what is right and to do whatever is selfish, self-gratifying, prideful, or self-promoting, even if it looks righteous, fight in opposite directions. They pull against each other in opposing directions. The Spirit is giving and sacrificial.

 

[amigo de christo]

Jesus's "track record" is The Cross of Christ.

Its Trustworthy, and just to prove it to you @St. SteVen , Jesus rose from the Dead as was seen by over 500 people, after He rose from the Dead.

There is a great evil that has come to decieve and to decieve has it come .
Examine well what people say , for many can say faith , trust , beleif , hope etc
BUT is that faith really in THEIR OWN ablilites , their own faith OR
But its that trust really in themselves OR
I have come and come by grace to the all out full persuasion of mind
of one thing .
WHO then can be saved . With man it is impossible , BUT NOT WITH GOD .
AND GOD already determined exactly HOW TO save .
WHO DID HE SEND
WHO did HE TESTIFY OF
WHO accomplished and fullilled ALL that was required for us .
JESUS the CHRIST . SO my mind is made up , I SHALL TRUST IN HE ALONE for my salvation .
My faith shall not be in me , BUT IN HIM and IN HE ALONE .
My trust shall not be in me , BUT IN HIM and IN HE ALONE .
And remember that any who cometh and brings any other interfaith gospel or any gospel
HEED NOT A WORD OUTTA THEY LIPS . they walk in vain and believe in vain and their faith is in another .
NOT GOD but in another . And that one feeds the god of their mirror
YE shall , YE can , TRust in your own faith in ya own self it hollers . but the end of that man is the second death and he knows it not .

 

[Behold]

BUT is that faith really in THEIR OWN ablilites , their own faith

Didn't you give YOUR Faith to God, when you Believed in Jesus?

Of course.
That is why God accepted YOUR Faith.
THat is why God accepted MY Faith.

God is looking for OUR Faith.....as we are the BELIEVER.

 

[amigo de christo]

Didn't you give YOUR Faith to God, when you Believed in Jesus?

Of course.
That is why God accepted YOUR Faith.
THat is why God accepted MY Faith.

God is looking for OUR Faith.....as we are the BELIEVER.

Faith comes BY HEARING and hearing by the WORD of GOD .
examine the beauty of that . But many have ears to hear and YET HEAR NOT
MY SHEEP HEAR , HEAR MY VOICE , HE IS THE WORD . and no man can come to the FATHER but by HIM .
Its time to remind all that has breath of the dire aboslute need of JESUS THE CHRIST .
PUT all faith , all trust , all hope , all affections above on HIM .
GOD will never accept faith in any thing or anyone other than IN HIM .
and if our faith be NOT IN JESUS THE CHRIST , THEN IT AINT IN HIM . that too is a solid fact .
many religoins have MUCH faith but their faith be in A LIE and the father of lies who has seduced them
and given them naught but the delusion they do serve GOD . WHEN In truth ALL other religoins serve
HE who desired to be as GOD , NOT GOD . many have faith , BUT NOT IN GOD , NOT IN CHRIST . and that
works only to their own destruction and peridtion . TIME we preach JESUS THE CHRIST
and expose this false interfaith lie of anti christ that has come to simply MERGE this world and her lost religoins
to be as one . EXPOSE THAT HARLOT and let no man sip of her cup of fornication .