The curious case of John 5:4

[Eternally Grateful]

This person, and you as well are wrong. You have to learn meaning and context which you clearly havent done

Actually we have. It is you who are ignoring the meaning

Agape and phileo are two words having different meanings. Anyone who says they have the same meaning is decieved

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I don't like The Message....I was using it as an extreme example.

Let me put it this way C,,,,
Kids today are not too interested in the bible.
Take a look at my avatar. I teach kids....I know first-hand what I'm talking about.
They have enough of a problem just dealing with the bible...
let alone using a version that they can't even understand.
If you intend to tie them to their chair and force-feed them...I don't know, that method could be tried I guess.
Otherwise, we need to use a bible that they'll understand.


It's not those days unfortunately.
We've been dumbed down in the education field and we're not going back.
I love the KJV for its poetic sounding verses...I know many by heart.
Most folk just will not use it and this has to be accepted.
Unless a person wants to live in their own world....

But I gave you reasons why it shouldn't be used.
I think I know what I'm talking about.

But this conversation should really end here...

Amen. People can find god using the kjv. The nkjv the nasb. The esv. They can also be fooled into a lie using any of the versions listed.

I love all of them. I do not hate any of them and I will not worship any English bible like many people do

 

[Rockerduck]

Amen. People can find god using the kjv. The nkjv the nasb. The esv. They can also be fooled into a lie using any of the versions listed.

I love all of them. I do not hate any of them and I will not worship any English bible like many people do

Don't trust everything you see, even salt looks like sugar.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Don't trust everything you see, even salt looks like sugar.

True

 

[St. SteVen]

Clearly-

Claiming that the Bible must be entirely without any copying differences in order to be authoritative sets up a false standard. We can be confident that what we have is more than sufficient for understanding God’s will, especially concerning salvation. Rather than conceding corruption, we affirm the reliability of the Bible where it matters most.

J.

What became of your earlier claim that every word is inspired?

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[quietthinker]

The curious case of John 5:4​

Is it assumed 'angel' is meant from God?

Ole Nick has been pulling swifties for as long as humanity has been on the Planet.
Counterfeits have been around long. Who is able to decipher the false from the genuine?

 

[Rockerduck]

Don't blame a clown for acting like a clown. Blame yourself for going to the circus.

 

[Lambano]

I spoke with a concerned student some years back who encountered this curious case and came to me on the verge of losing his trust in the reliability of Bible. As I recall, the student (who had read only the NIV) had been completely unaware of the “problem” until a Muslim he was evangelizing pointed it out to him.

Would you, the reader, have been able to help the shaken student? If you would, how would you go about it?

Just for clarification: This isn't about the Muslim guy, then. The issue is that the Christian student was losing his trust in the Bible, correct? And if he lost his trust in the Bible, he also would lose his trust in Jesus Christ, to whom the Bible points, right?

For my own background information, then: Was the student brought up and educated in an "It all has to be true or you wouldn't be able to trust any of it" mindset towards the Bible that seems to be characteristic of the Fundamentalist subset of Evangelicalism?

 

[Lambano]

I didn’t ask him to trust me. We worked through it together.

Don't underestimate the value of being a trusted resource, even if a fallible one. Because that's what this is about. Trusting data that is less than 100% certain.

Which is probably the approach I would take.

 

[Matthias]

Just for clarification: This isn't about the Muslim guy, then. The issue is that the Christian student was losing his trust in the Bible, correct?

Yes.

And if he lost his trust in the Bible, he also would lose his trust in Jesus Christ, to whom the Bible points, right?

Yes.

For my own background information, then: Was the student brought up and educated in an "It all has to be true or you wouldn't be able to trust any of it" mindset towards the Bible that seems to be characteristic of the Fundamentalist subset of Evangelicalism?

As I recall all these years later, he was a Baptist. I think it is fair of me to say that the answer to your question would be that he was brought up in the manner you described.

 

[Lambano]

As I recall all these years later, he was a Baptist. I think it is fair of me to say that the answer to your question would be that he was brought up in the manner you described.

So far we've talked about strategies to reinforce his faith in the Bible. What are ways we can reinforce faith in Christ while living with the reality that the Bible we have inherited is not 100% certain?

That was what I had to decide when I could no longer live with the cognitive dissonance of trying to read the Bible the way the John MacArthurs of Christian radio did and pretend that I just didn't see what I saw.

 

[Ritajanice]

@Rockerduck said.Don't trust everything you see, even salt looks like sugar.

RJ said.Also Vinegar looks like Coca Cola in a bottle.

 

[St. SteVen]

Don't trust everything you see, even salt looks like sugar.

Also Vinegar looks like Coca Cola in a bottle.

That saw cuts both ways.

I think that what @Lambano and myself and others are saying is that we have been offered a bottle of what is labeled as refreshing cold Coca Cola.

But in our thirst for the truth we pulled that bottle from the refrigerator expecting a cool refreshing drink, when we poured a glass, and what we got was a mouth full of warm vinegar, which we promptly spit out. (as we should have)

Now what? How do we navigate the Christian faith from here? The leadership at the top has lied to us.
And if we dare to ask questions we will marginalized. Our friend @Johann is making it his mission to shut people like me down.
And to shame fine folks like @Lambano who would appear to align themselves against the problem.

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[Ritajanice]

@St. SteVen ..just amended my post,Brother.

I answered in response to rockerduck.

It took me back as a 16 year old...I was an apprentice hairdresser...I used to naughtily ,steal drink from one of the hairdressers .she noticed that the level of her Coca Cola bottle was going down.
she filled it up with vinegar one day..I drank it straight from the bottle...I’ve never forgotten that....I was drinking water all day after that incident.LOL.

 

[St. SteVen]

What are ways we can reinforce faith in Christ while living with the reality that the Bible we have inherited is not 100% certain?

That is such a great question.

What do you do after the "Hey, wait a minute..." moment when we realize that we have been handed a false religion.
Experimentally we know that there is a real "religion" in there somewhere. So, we don't want to toss it in the trash and walk away.
Though that has been the reaction of many. And rightfully so, I'm afraid.

Like ordering a burrito and then realizing they put stuff in the tortilla that you asked to NOT be there.
Either you return it and ask that they make what you ordered, or you pick through the mess and pull out the stuff you didn't want.

But in the case of our religious leaders, the poor soul behind the counter at the burrito shop would have to inform us that what they gave us was the religious burrito approved by leadership. They will NOT make it the way we requested.

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[Ritajanice]

@St. SteVen said.

@Johann is making it his mission to shut people like me down.


Sorry Brother, I don’t agree, all you have to do my friend, is put him on ignore ,if he bothers you that much.

 

[St. SteVen]

It took me back as a 16 year old...I was an apprentice hairdresser...I used to naughtily ,steal drink from one of the hairdressers .she noticed that the level of her Coca Cola bottle was going down.
she filled it up with vinegar one day..I drank it straight from the bottle...I’ve never forgotten that....I was drinking water all day after that incident.LOL.

That's a great story.
Have you had that experience with the church? Where you thought you were getting Coke but ended up with a mouth-full of vinegar?

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[St. SteVen]

@St. SteVen said.

@Johann is making it his mission to shut people like me down.


Sorry Brother, I don’t agree, all you have to do my friend, is put him on ignore ,if he bothers you that much.

If I put him on IGNORE, wouldn't that prove my point?
And would he not continue in the same way but out of my sight?

Putting my head in the sand will not change what he is doing.

How can you disagree with my statement, as if I am the problem?

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[Ritajanice]

@St. SteVen said.

That's a great story.
Have you had that experience with the church? Where you thought you were getting Coke but ended up with a mouth-full of vinegar?



RJ says...do you mean wrong information in our own opinion,from others .different interpretation of scripture?

 

[Ritajanice]

@St. SteVen said.

If I put him on IGNORE, wouldn't that prove my point?
And would he not continue in the same way but out of my sight?

Putting my head in the sand will not change what he is doing.

How can you disagree with my statement, as if I am the problem?


RJ says,I never said you are the problem,Brother.

You have voiced your opinion about him,...I used to believe people were trying to shut me down,no they aren’t.

They are voicing their opinions and beliefs.

Sorry Brother...we can’t keep blaming others...for what we can’t see at the time.

I’m out of that mindset “ now” imo...Praise God.

Ps, pride and ego was my problem.

Anyway, I can only encourage you to keep posting...I’m not getting into an argument over it.

You know I wish you well,as you journey with God, plus some of your posts speak to my heart.

We’re all Brothers and Sisters in Christ....let’s pray for further patience/ tolerance/ Love from the Lord. for one another,Only he can give it, let’s open our hearts to the Lord let his Love shine out from our hearts.

Let’s stay dignified and respectful towards each other before our Lord....that’s what he loves to see....