Daniel Chapter 8 - the 2300 evenings and mornings prophecy

[Douggg]

All promises made to Israel, individually and collectively, that are apart/separate from God's Gift of salvation, through FAITH IN Jesus, those promises ARE NULL AND VOID!!!

Israel became a nation again in the land in 1948. Most of the Jews taking part in that event were not Christians.

The nation of Israel will continue in it's state of unbelief in Jesus until the middle part of the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9. When in Revelation 12:10, en-masse the Jews, the seed of the woman, will turn to Jesus and the gospel of salvation.

God did not nullify His promises made to the nation of Israel. His promises to the nation of Israel will lead them to come to belief in Jesus and the gospel of salvation.

Israel is in the news everyday. We are living in the time of the end.

Are you anti-Israel and pro-Palestinian ?

 

[Earburner]

Israel became a nation again in the land in 1948. Most of the Jews taking part in that event were not Christians.

The nation of Israel will continue in it's state of unbelief in Jesus until the middle part of the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9. When in Revelation 12:10, en-masse the Jews, the seed of the woman, will turn to Jesus and the gospel of salvation.

God does not recognize MBTG as anything except another nation of the Gentiles.(there is now no difference between Jew and Gentile, in God's eyes)
Have you not yet discerned that there are only two prophetic "mothers" in all of the NT. scriptures. Neither one are the Pope or the RCC.
Be sure to study and digest all of Gal. ch. 4.

God did not nullify His promises made to the nation of Israel. His promises to the nation of Israel will lead them to come to belief in Jesus and the gospel of salvation.

Yes, as I have said, according to having faith in Jesus, that promise stands!! But all other promises, that have nothing to do with their personal salvation, all of such promises are null and void.

Israel is in the news everyday. We are living in the time of the end.

Are you anti-Israel and pro-Palestinian ?

I am against genocide committed by any country. I am not "Christian-Zionist".

 

[Douggg]

Yes, as I have said, according to having faith in Jesus, that promise stands!! But all other promises, that have nothing to do with their personal salvation, all of such promises are null and void.

So you don't think Israel becoming a nation again back in the land of Israel in 1948 as being a fulfillment of prophecy ?

 

[Earburner]

Did the world end 2000 years ago ? No, because that is not what Paul was saying.

Paul was saying the Jesus did not enter the holy places made with hands, verse 24, i.e. the earthy temple on the temple mount - like the high priest did once a year, verse 24, offering a blood sacrifice of others (slain animals) to atone for sin (as a temporary measure under the old covenant).

But instead Jesus presented Himself as a sacrifice for men's sins in the heavenly temple of God. verse 24.

24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

Otherwise, as verse 26 is stating, that Jesus would have to had been killed over and over, every year, from the foundation of the the world until the end of the world.

26 For then [otherwise) must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

More aptly, end of the word, means end of the age in verse 24.

Jesus's shed blood atones for sin - all sin from the foundation of the world to the end of the world - ending (putting away) sin's power to cause eternal separation from God.

Yes. Every "born again" Christian, whether Jew or Gentile, understands and loves those scriptures! But the Jews of Israel love the fallen "mother", being that of Jerusalem which now is. They all are taught to despise Jesus and His words. Quite literally, all of such "are of that spirit of antichrist".

 

[Earburner]

So you don't think Israel becoming a nation again back in the land of Israel in 1948 as being a fulfillment of prophecy ?

Who said that it was God's doing??
God is divorced from that nation.

Surely you have heard of the "Balfour Agreement" with England, and the money of the Rothchilds, who "say they are Jews, and are not".

As I have said, any and all promises, concerning Israel, that are apart/separate from God's salvation through faith in Jesus, are null and void!!
As Jesus did say to them:
Mat. 23
[39] For I say unto you [Jews], Ye shall not see [percieve] me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he [a born again Christian] that cometh in the name of the Lord.

The 10 horns, soon to be appointed by the "Conglomerate" Beast of Rev. 13:2, will have their way with Her. Rev. 17:16.

 

[Douggg]

Who said that it was God's doing??

Ezekiel 37 does.

In Ezekiel 37, God said he would rejoin the northern kingdom and the southern kingdom back into being one nation again.

21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

That prophecy of being one nation again was fulfilled in May 14, 1948.

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May 14, 1948 also fulfilled a prophecy in Isaiah 66:7-8.

7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

Those two verses are about when Israel will turn to Jesus. It will be when Israel became a nation again in one day, May 14, 1948. And as soon as the great tribulation begins, the Jews will turn to Jesus and the gospel of salvation which delivers them from the consequences of sin.

 

[Douggg]

Mat. 23
[39] For I say unto you [Jews], Ye shall not see [percieve] me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he [a born again Christian] that cometh in the name of the Lord.

The verse is talking about the time of Jesus's return, when the Jews will welcome him saying "Blessed is he (Jesus) that cometh in the name of the Lord.

We are living in those days right now. The time of the end.

 

[Earburner]

Do you understand the vision of Daniel 8?

The ram symbolizes the congregation of Israel, while the two horns represent the powers of two congregations - Israel of the Old Testament and the Church of the New Testament. The Church is depicted as higher and coming after Israel, signifying that the Church will do more for the Kingdom of God than Israel, being last, as it came after the Cross.

The he-goat represents the kingdom of darkness, with one notable horn symbolizing Satan with full power. Satan is responsible for breaking the power of the Old Testaement congregation of Israel at the Cross and the power of the New Testament congregation, the church, at the Great Tribulation prior to the Second Coming, leading to desolation. Although his power was broken by Christ at the Cross, his kingdom extended throughout the world wherever the Church went. In the end times, Satan's full power he once enjoyed before the Cross, will be briefly restored (represented by the little horn) to attack the church represented by the South, East, and finally in the Pleasant Land, where he will establish his palace in the heart of the church. This will lead to apostasy in the church and cause the cessation of the daily sacrifice for salvation. The Church will fall for a short season.

Nothing to do with E.A. or the first century. God painted a larger spiritual picture than a piece of land.

I have never heard that interpretation of Dan. 8 before. It's new to me.
Is it a popular view among Evangelicals or Fundamentalists? Or is it a historisist view, such as the SDA? Or maybe JW?

 

[Earburner]

• The verse is talking about the time of Jesus's return, when the Jews will welcome him saying "Blessed is he (Jesus) that cometh in the name of the Lord.

We are living in those days right now. The time of the end.

No, it's the "born again" Christians who have been COMING to the individuals of Israel in the name of the Lord Jesus.
It was Jesus who CAME FIRST to the individuals of Israel in the name of the LORD God Almighty.

However, by Jesus knowing that most all of Israel would reject him as their Savior, he let them know plainly that THEY would not see or percieve him from then on, except through the "born again" Christians, who DO COME to the two houses of Israel in the name of the Lord, carrying forth the Gospel message of His salvation, in His stead.

To each of Israel, that do come to faith in Jesus through the Gospel message, it is He Himself that CAUSES both the house of Israel and the house of Judea to BECOME "one stick" IN HIM, by being "born again" of God's Gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Earburner]

So you don't think Israel becoming a nation again back in the land of Israel in 1948 as being a fulfillment of prophecy ?

Israel becoming a nation,... being of God....without Jesus?? Absolutely not!!
All of such prophecies (promises) of that nature are null and void, ever since they rejected and killed their Messiah Jesus.
Oh yes, they are looking for a Messiah (still), but to them, God forbid that it should be Jesus!!
Believers, who are alive in that very Day, when He comes from Heaven in all His Immortal Glory, will have to have been "born again" ALREADY BEFORE His appearance. THERE WILL BE NO SUDDEN CONVERTS IN THAT DAY!! One either has the Spirit of Christ before the suddenness of His return, or THEY DON'T. Rom. 8:9.
2 Thes. 1
[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

 

[Douggg]

No, it's the "born again" Christians who have been COMING to the individuals of Israel in the name of the Lord Jesus.
It was Jesus who CAME FIRST to the individuals of Israel in the name of the LORD God Almighty.

Matthew 23:
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

The "me" in that verse is Jesus, as He is the one speaking in the verse.

"Jerusalem, Jerusalem" is referring to the city of Jerusalem and it's inhabitants - the Jews.

Verse 39 is referring to Jesus's return. We are living in those days. The time of the end.

 

[Earburner]

Matthew 23:
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

The "me" in that verse is Jesus, as He is the one speaking in the verse.

"Jerusalem, Jerusalem" is referring to the city of Jerusalem and it's inhabitants - the Jews.

Verse 39 is referring to Jesus's return. We are living in those days. The time of the end.

In my previous post #209, you don't understand who the LORD GOD Almighty is, as opposed to who The Lord Jesus is as the Son of GOD.

John 14[28] Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

 Therefore, of course you can't correctly discern what Jesus is meaning in Mat. 23:39. You don't know the differences in lordship between God the Father and God the Son.

Maybe this will help:
2 Cor. 5
[20] Now then we [who are "born again"] are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead [Name], be ye reconciled to God.

 

[Douggg]

In my previous post #209, you don't understand who the LORD GOD Almighty is, as opposed to who The Lord Jesus is as the Son of GOD.

John 14[28] Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

 Therefore, of course you can't correctly discern what Jesus is meaning in Mat. 23:39. You don't know the differences in lordship between God the Father and God the Son.

Maybe this will help:
2 Cor. 5
[20] Now then we [who are "born again"] are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead [Name], be ye reconciled to God.

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

The "me" in that verse is Jesus, as He is the one speaking in the verse.

Verse 39 is not talking about Christians, but Jesus Himself. It is about Jesus's return, when Jerusalem, the Jews, finally accept Jesus as their King of Israel messiah.

Luke 13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

The time is the time of the end.

 

[Earburner]

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

The "me" in that verse is Jesus, as He is the one speaking in the verse.

Verse 39 is not talking about Christians, but Jesus Himself. It is about Jesus's return, when Jerusalem, the Jews, finally accept Jesus as their King of Israel messiah.

Luke 13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

The time is the time of the end.

In Mat. 23:39 and Luke 13:35, the word "see" in the Strongs G1492, shows that the correct application of the word "see", is meaning to see, as in to perceive or understand.

Are you saying that when you share the Gospel message to a Jew or Gentile, about God's salvation through faith in Jesus, you are NOT coming to them in Jesus' name, aka in his stead??

 

[Douggg]

In Mat. 23:39 and Luke 13:35, the word "see" in the Strongs G1492, shows that the correct application of the word "see", is meaning to see, as in to perceive or understand.

Are you saying that when you share the Gospel message to a Jew or Gentile, about God's salvation through faith in Jesus, you are NOT coming to them in Jesus' name, aka in his stead??

I share the gospel message as a disciple of Christ, and a new creation in Christ Who I love, in His name, and of God the Father Who I also love, and Who, Christians pray to in the Lord's prayer - Our Father that art in heaven.

Matthew 23:39 and Luke 13:35 are about Jesus Himself, and Jerusalem, the Jews therein, saying to Him, Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. The verses are talking about the time of Jesus's return, when He will stand on the Mt. of Olives in Jerusalem, splitting it half.

 

[Earburner]

I share the gospel message as a disciple of Christ, and a new creation in Christ Who I love, in His name, and of God the Father Who I also love, and Who, Christians pray to in the Lord's prayer - Our Father that art in heaven.

That is wonderful, that you share the Gospel message with both Gentiles and Jews.

For when you do, you are fulfilling the prophetic words of Christ about His "New creatures" (we His disciples), like you and me, who ARE coming to the UNSAVED Jews, in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Matthew 23:39 and Luke 13:35 are about Jesus Himself, and Jerusalem, the Jews therein, saying to Him, Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. The verses are talking about the time of Jesus's return, when He will stand on the Mt. of Olives in Jerusalem, splitting it half.

Nope! By you and I sharing the Gospel message about Christ, we are fulfilling His prophetic words as His disciples, coming IN HIS STEAD (IN THE NAME OF The Lord Jesus) towards the Jews, as well as the Gentiles.

It's exactly what you said in your first paragraph, and nothing more.
By we being "born again" of His Holy Spirit, is not Christ within us? Of course He is!!!
Therefore, Jesus within us, has been visiting the Jews, ever since Pentecost, THROUGH US, His New creatures [creation].

It is Jesus in us and through us who HAS BEEN coming to the Jews of BOTH the house of Israel and the house of Judea. When each of them do repent individually, and do come to Jesus in faith believing, THEN and only then are they become "ONE STICK", but ONLY in Him!!

Remember: in the suddenness of Jesus Glorious and Immortal return, in flaming fire, whosoever does NOT HAVE the Spirit of Christ, IS NONE OF HIS. Rom. 8:9.

 

[Douggg]

For when you do, you are fulfilling the prophetic words of Christ about His "New creatures" (we His disciples), like you and me, who ARE coming to the UNSAVED Jews, in the name of the Lord Jesus.

When you share the gospel with unsaved Jews - do they say of you, "blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord" ?

Not at all, for most Jews reject the gospel message when they hear it, and say I don't want hear it, I have heard it over and over, and we Jews reject it and Jesus as the messiah. Unbelieving Jews, the overwhelming majority of Jews, do not hold us in high esteem, nor Jesus Himself at this present time.

The Jews have counter-missionary groups, like Jews for Judaism, and Messiah Truth site, that are dedicated to counter the Christian message of salvation, and to also turn Jews who are Christians back to Judaism.

Also the verse does not say - "blessed are them who come in the name of Lord" - something that would apply to Christians overall if it were referring to Christians who spread the gospel. The verse is specifically referring to Jesus. And the timing when Jerusalem, the Jews, will say it will be at Jesus's return.

 

[grafted branch]

Luke 13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Do you think Jesus’s return is contingent on the Jews saying blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord?
In other words the Jews control when Jesus returns, and as long as they never say “blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord” Jesus can’t return.

 

[Douggg]

Do you think Jesus’s return is contingent on the Jews saying blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord?
In other words the Jews control when Jesus returns, and as long as they never say “blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord” Jesus can’t return.

I would not say contingent as a matter that Jews control whether Jesus returns or not. God is in control, not us humans. I am sure you agree with that.

 

[grafted branch]

I would not say contingent as a matter that Jews control whether Jesus returns or not. God is in control, not us humans. I am sure you agree with that.

Yes, I absolutely agree God is in control but if Jesus can’t return until the Jews make the Luke 13:35 statement then the Jews do indeed have some kind of say in when Jesus returns.

I think Earburner has the correct interpretation on this, I don’t think the Jews can prevent Jesus from coming by refusing to make the statement.