Sinless perfection is easy

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KUWN

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1 John 3.6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

There it is, those who abide in him do not sin. Can this be true of us?

Most translations add something close to "whosoever abides in him does not CONTINUE to sin."

I've been sinning for 66 years so I hope there is an alternate understanding of this text. There is.

By adding CONTINUE to sin you take away from John's method of writing. John uses opposites all the time, such as light/dark, sin/righteousness, life/death, etc. The solution to the apparent dilemma is known as Positional Truth. To abide "in him" is a reference to being in fellowship. When we are in fellowship and then sin, we are out of fellowship and must confess that sin to restore our fellowship with Christ.

When we are "in him" we are said to be in fellowship. We continue in fellowship until we knowingly sin. But we can not sin "in him" (in fellowship). What happens is told to us by James. Let's look at how James handles this:

1.14 But each one is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desires 1.15 Then when desire conceives, it give birth to sin...


When a believer is in fellowship, the only way he can sin is if he is lured out of the light of fellowship (in him) and into darkness. This is when he can sin. When he is in fellowship and abides in his new nature, he can not sin. He has to be lured out first before he is capable of sinning. So, John is saying that we can not sin at all, not that we can not keep on sinning. Note also in vs 5 where we are told that in him is no sin (not continually sinning, but sin).

I wrote a long article our here (or in some other forum) that dealt with Positional Truth. I there explain in more details what Position Truth is. For example, Paul says in Eph that we are seated with Christ in the heavenlies. We are not actually in heaven, but by virtue of Position Truth we enjoy all the benefits now, so much so that Paul says were ARE in heaven seated with Christ.
 
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KUWN

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I don’t think you understand biblical sin as opposed to what your conscience perceives as sin.

Surely you haven’t been murdering people, committing adultery, and stealing for 66 years, have you?
No, but I have been sinning for 66 years.
 
J

Johann

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No, but I have been sinning for 66 years.
So, what to do?

Ever read Romans 6,7 and 8?

That should deal with the sin problem, unless you are in a state of knowingly, willful never ending sin?

Is this the case?

J.
 

Michiah-Imla

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No, but I have been sinning for 66 years.

If so:

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?” (Romans 6:16, KJV)

Serve Jesus and obey him, do not obey sin.

“A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.” (James 1:8, KJV)
 

KUWN

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If so:

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?” (Romans 6:16, KJV)

Serve Jesus and obey him, do not obey sin.

“A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.” (James 1:8, KJV)
Rom 7.17 I am in good company with the Apostle Paul
 
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Johann

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see Rom 7.17 for the Apostle Paul's position on this matter
You did not answer my question-are you living in a state of never-ending sinning? This was NOT the case of Paul.

J.
 

Michiah-Imla

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Rom 7.17 I am in good company with the Apostle Paul

Paul was explaining the state of a man in the flesh.

He was not in the flesh anymore.

He was speaking from experience.

“For when we WERE in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.” (Romans 7:5, KJV)

“For I do not do the good that I desire; but the evil which I do not will, that I do.” (Romans 7:19, MKJV)

But we are no longer in the flesh as born again believers, and neither was Paul:

“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit…” (Romans 8:9, KJV)

So:

“…Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.” (Galatians 5:16, KJV)

But when you walk in the flesh lust has influence over you:

“Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren.” (James 1:15-16, KJV)

Stop erring.

Stop obeying unrighteousness.

Start fearing God.

Start obeying Jesus.

“…by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.” (Proverbs 16:6, KJV)
 

KUWN

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Paul was explaining the state of a man in the flesh.

He was not in the flesh anymore.
So you disagree with world renown Greek Grammarian Dan Wallace of Dallas Seminary, my former boss. You need to do more studying on the Present Tense in Rom 7. See his book Greek Grammar beyond the Basics, pg. 531. Go to the top scholars who know the original language of NT Greek. Don't take my word for it, go to the source.
 
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KUWN

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You did not answer my question-are you living in a state of never-ending sinning? This was NOT the case of Paul.

J.
Yes, I have been sinning for 66 years, in the same way the Apostle Paul keeps on sinning.
 

Michiah-Imla

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renown Greek Grammarian Dan Wallace of Dallas Seminary

The Holy Bible is clear.

You seem to have lost your battle with the flesh years ago and then found “renown” men who have tickled your itching ears.

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth...” (2 Timothy 4:3-4, KJV)
 

Ronald Nolette

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1 John 3.6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

There it is, those who abide in him do not sin. Can this be true of us?

Most translations add something close to "whosoever abides in him does not CONTINUE to sin."

I've been sinning for 66 years so I hope there is an alternate understanding of this text. There is.

By adding CONTINUE to sin you take away from John's method of writing. John uses opposites all the time, such as light/dark, sin/righteousness, life/death, etc. The solution to the apparent dilemma is known as Positional Truth. To abide "in him" is a reference to being in fellowship. When we are in fellowship and then sin, we are out of fellowship and must confess that sin to restore our fellowship with Christ.

When we are "in him" we are said to be in fellowship. We continue in fellowship until we knowingly sin. But we can not sin "in him" (in fellowship). What happens is told to us by James. Let's look at how James handles this:

1.14 But each one is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desires 1.15 Then when desire conceives, it give birth to sin...


When a believer is in fellowship, the only way he can sin is if he is lured out of the light of fellowship (in him) and into darkness. This is when he can sin. When he is in fellowship and abides in his new nature, he can not sin. He has to be lured out first before he is capable of sinning. So, John is saying that we can not sin at all, not that we can not keep on sinning. Note also in vs 5 where we are told that in him is no sin (not continually sinning, but sin).

I wrote a long article our here (or in some other forum) that dealt with Positional Truth. I there explain in more details what Position Truth is. For example, Paul says in Eph that we are seated with Christ in the heavenlies. We are not actually in heaven, but by virtue of Position Truth we enjoy all the benefits now, so much so that Paul says were ARE in heaven seated with Christ.
It is good to see one who understands positional truth.

However the construct of that supposed controversial passage in the Greek says that one lives in a known sin with no confession. We cannot forget what John wrote in 1 John 1:

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

and also what jesus said about forgiving:

Matthew 18:21-23

King James Version

21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
 
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Behold

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When we are "in him" we are said to be in fellowship. We continue in fellowship until we knowingly sin.

Is there any Sin "in Christ" ?

Is there any sin "in God".?

A.) All the born again, are "in Christ" and "ONE with God"....forever.

So, when a person does not understand that "while we were YET sinners"... is how God accepted us........and following this......we are "made free from sin"... and are become "the Righteousness of God, in Christ"., then they are unable to comprehend their own Salvation.

This issue that most Christians have, regarding their Salvation, .. is not that they dont have it.......its that they dont understand it..

So, they mistreat it like this..

"if im good, i stay saved".. "if im bad, i lose it". .and then "i confess, and start over".

See that?
That is exactly NONSENSE< yet, that is what the majority of people on Forums,.. have been taught, as that is what most of Christianity teaches... And that is because the majority of Denominations, have no idea regarding what God has accomplished through Christ on The Cross.

The Reader, needs to read ... 2 Corinthians 5:19, and Romans 4:8.

Start there, and find out that SIN, is not a situation, for the Born again.
The Situation they have, is being misled by pulpits, commentaries, and many many people on Forums, who have no idea what Jesus has accomplished for THEM, on the Cross.

Listen..
When you find a so called "christian" who is always talking about Calvin, and sin, and repenting, and 1 John 1, then you are dealing with a person who has no idea what Salvation is all about........and they will cause you to be just as backwards and lost in space, regarding NOT understanding the simple Grace of God, WHO is your Salvation,.. who has delivered you from the Law......IF, you are born again, and are not just water baptized and religious.

Here is a head's up for you.

HERETICS, always talk about sinning, sin, confessing, losing salvation, OSAS, law, law keeping, commandment keeping, and Calvin.

Christians Talk about CHRIST, and GRACE, and a Theology that is connected to those, 2.

Learn to hear the difference....and you'll be able to find your way away from the DECEIVERS.. and stay there.
 
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quietthinker

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Sinless perfection is easy​

It is impossible!
Adam only ate once of the forbidden fruit and death was inevitable....as was promised.
We, who have inherited millennia of self interest and dysfunction have in our flesh the 'gene' of rebellion.

Perfection requires flawlessness from the moment of birth to the instant of death.

Jeremiah 23:13
Can an Ethiopian change his skin or a leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil.

'What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! Romans 7:24-25

Jesus is our Saviour. He does for us what we cannot do for ourselves

We are a drowning people. If we were able we would not need a Saviour. We are drowning in self at every turn....even our 'good works' are tarnished with self.....nay, especially our good works! Why? because self evaluates them as being selfless.
 
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Joshua67

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Yes, when we abide in Christ, we should not sin, but in reality, we fall because we are only human. Paul wrote about this struggle in Romans 7. We must strive for holiness daily, but we must also understand that we need God's mercy.

However, that doesn’t mean we give up. Abiding in Christ means living in repentance, turning back, and aiming for perfection, even when it's hard.
 

ChristinaL

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1 John 3.6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

There it is, those who abide in him do not sin. Can this be true of us?

Most translations add something close to "whosoever abides in him does not CONTINUE to sin."

I've been sinning for 66 years so I hope there is an alternate understanding of this text. There is.

By adding CONTINUE to sin you take away from John's method of writing. John uses opposites all the time, such as light/dark, sin/righteousness, life/death, etc. The solution to the apparent dilemma is known as Positional Truth. To abide "in him" is a reference to being in fellowship. When we are in fellowship and then sin, we are out of fellowship and must confess that sin to restore our fellowship with Christ.

When we are "in him" we are said to be in fellowship. We continue in fellowship until we knowingly sin. But we can not sin "in him" (in fellowship). What happens is told to us by James. Let's look at how James handles this:

1.14 But each one is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desires 1.15 Then when desire conceives, it give birth to sin...


When a believer is in fellowship, the only way he can sin is if he is lured out of the light of fellowship (in him) and into darkness. This is when he can sin. When he is in fellowship and abides in his new nature, he can not sin. He has to be lured out first before he is capable of sinning. So, John is saying that we can not sin at all, not that we can not keep on sinning. Note also in vs 5 where we are told that in him is no sin (not continually sinning, but sin).

I wrote a long article our here (or in some other forum) that dealt with Positional Truth. I there explain in more details what Position Truth is. For example, Paul says in Eph that we are seated with Christ in the heavenlies. We are not actually in heaven, but by virtue of Position Truth we enjoy all the benefits now, so much so that Paul says were ARE in heaven seated with Christ.
 

ChristinaL

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1 John 3.6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

There it is, those who abide in him do not sin. Can this be true of us?

Most translations add something close to "whosoever abides in him does not CONTINUE to sin."

I've been sinning for 66 years so I hope there is an alternate understanding of this text. There is.

By adding CONTINUE to sin you take away from John's method of writing. John uses opposites all the time, such as light/dark, sin/righteousness, life/death, etc. The solution to the apparent dilemma is known as Positional Truth. To abide "in him" is a reference to being in fellowship. When we are in fellowship and then sin, we are out of fellowship and must confess that sin to restore our fellowship with Christ.

When we are "in him" we are said to be in fellowship. We continue in fellowship until we knowingly sin. But we can not sin "in him" (in fellowship). What happens is told to us by James. Let's look at how James handles this:

1.14 But each one is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desires 1.15 Then when desire conceives, it give birth to sin...


When a believer is in fellowship, the only way he can sin is if he is lured out of the light of fellowship (in him) and into darkness. This is when he can sin. When he is in fellowship and abides in his new nature, he can not sin. He has to be lured out first before he is capable of sinning. So, John is saying that we can not sin at all, not that we can not keep on sinning. Note also in vs 5 where we are told that in him is no sin (not continually sinning, but sin).

I wrote a long article our here (or in some other forum) that dealt with Positional Truth. I there explain in more details what Position Truth is. For example, Paul says in Eph that we are seated with Christ in the heavenlies. We are not actually in heaven, but by virtue of Position Truth we enjoy all the benefits now, so much so that Paul says were ARE in heaven seated with Christ.
Only Jesus Christ embodies sinless perfection. NOT US. 1 John 3:6 says Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not. That is the passage you speak of. But that does not imply living sinlessly as its impossible for any of us to live sin free, not ever making mistakes. That is impossible for us as long as we are in this flesh, so easily prone to sin. ALL OF US FALL SHORT.
 

KUWN

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Only Jesus Christ embodies sinless perfection. NOT US. 1 John 3:6 says Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not. That is the passage you speak of. But that does not imply living sinlessly as its impossible for any of us to live sin free, not ever making mistakes. That is impossible for us as long as we are in this flesh, so easily prone to sin. ALL OF US FALL SHORT.
I have no idea why you think I say people can live their entire life sinlessly. All I said is while we are IN HIM we can't sin. We are sinless at that time. Once we are lured out of fellowship with him, we sin. That is also why I said I have been sinning for 66 years.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Here is a head's up for you.

HERETICS, always talk about sinning, sin, confessing, losing salvation, OSAS, law, law keeping, commandment keeping, and Calvin.

Christians Talk about CHRIST, and GRACE, and a Theology that is connected to those, 2.

Learn to hear the difference....and you'll be able to find your way away from the DECEIVERS.. and stay there.
Can you show us where these rules were established or are they just your pontificating again about things.