Could Jesus have sinned?

[Ritajanice]

Jesus is God…and ALWAYS diverted His WILL TO Gods WILL… a teaching…for manKINDS sake

Jesus could easily have disobeyed Gods will...he chose not to..he had his own will....just like a human will...his will was in harmony with the Fathers will....

 

[Ritajanice]

Yes, AFTER He was SENT forth out from God in Heaven TO Earth, TO a virgins’ Womb, making Him the LEGAL descendant of Abraham, Issac, Jacob, King David…thus Legal HEIR to King David’s Everlasting Throne, and Abraham’s HEIR to the Promised Land…(which will be Necessary for Jesus to Reign for 1,000, years on His Throne and in His Kingdom)…
By LLEGAL accounts Mary was His Lawful mother, Joseph His Lawful Father….and FULLED the Roman Laws for TAXATION, and FOR Roman Census accounting….AS Joseph and Mary DID. .

Spiritually Jesus IS SPIRIT incarnate, (in the LIKENESS “AS” a JEWISH Human Man…) Spiritually WITHOUT beginning, WITHOUT ending, WITHOUT mother, WITHOUT father.



That “holy thing”…Gods Word and was IN a BODY God Prepared…FOR WHEN He WOULD come into this World… Yes His body “prospered” grew….As God said it would.



Conceived OF Gods SEED…? Yes…Christ IS Gods SEED…Gods SEED does not “fertilize” a Humans sperm nor a Humans egg.

Gods SEED, IN a virgin womb…was God USING Mary’s womb….to which SHE agreed…the prospering, growing, feeding, blood supply, etc. (which a placenta does for a human baby in a womb of a human females fertilized egg) had NOTHING to do with MARY…



Sure Jesus looked like a man, in the Body God Prepared, and He walked about, ate, slept, was victimized, cried, talked, was justly accused, was unjustly accused…AND. Human men could SEE and Hear Him…YET…He was and is A SPIRIT.

A thought of Jesus…as given the author of Philipians

Phil 2:
[6] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
[8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Do you KNOW ANY Human man…who would so boldly claim they are EQUAL TO GOD ?

Jesus thought that of Himself.

Are human men Created in the Likeness of human men….or Created A human man?



Correct, as I have said the same…

SAME as Angels who are Spirits can APPEAR IN THE LIKENESS “AS” a human man…and human men WILL NOT KNOW they are talking to a SPIRIT…an ANGEL…

Heb 13:
[2] Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

Are those ^^ angels HUMAN MEN because they LOOK LIKE a Human man? No.



Jesus is God…and ALWAYS diverted His WILL TO Gods WILL… a teaching…for manKINDS sake.

REMEMBER….WHY Jesus was SENT…
He was the VISIBLE EXAMPLE…human men could not BELIEVE (by Gods word Alone)…MEN believe what they can SEE.



A difference between …. Carnal Understanding and Spiritual Understanding.

Discussing Spiritual things with Carnal Understanding ends up in disagreements.

It’s like trying to teach a 3 yr old….something they can not see, hear, touch, smell, taste….Created and Made them….It makes no sense to a carnal mind.

God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

Ok, thanks for posting your beliefs/ opinions....like the others have also, including me.

 

[Taken]

Plus he had his own will, did he not?

If you Knew you would be beaten, your skin ripped open, Nails driven through your hands and feet….Even though you HAD never experienced that…would you think, even plead to God…um is there another way we can do this? That was a lesson … of what exactly human men would do….and the lesson continued with HOW Jesus handled it…was teaching men to relent of their own fears….that Gods WILL always has the best outcome.
(The walking on water…another example…wasn’t a painful thing to do…but it made no sense…)
Gods Spiritual Understanding MAKES NO SENSE to the Carnal mind.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Jesus could easily have disobeyed Gods will...he chose not to..he had his own will....just like a human will...his will was in harmony with the Fathers will....

Not possible.
Jesus’ Spirit, Gods Spirit…one and the Same.
God can NOT Stand Against Himself.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ritajanice]

If you Knew you would be beaten, your skin ripped open, Nails driven through your hands and feet….Even though you HAD never experienced that…would you think, even plead to God…um is there another way we can do this? That was a lesson … of what exactly human men would do….and the lesson continued with HOW Jesus handled it…was teaching men to relent of their own fears….that Gods WILL always has the best outcome.
(The walking on water…another example…wasn’t a painful thing to do…but it made no sense…)
Gods Spiritual Understanding MAKES NO SENSE to the Carnal mind.

Glory to God,
Taken

I think I asked you the question if Jesus had his own will?

 

[Ritajanice]

Not possible.
Jesus’ Spirit, Gods Spirit…one and the Same.
God can NOT Stand Against Himself.


Glory to God,
Taken

According to scripture it was possible, because Jesus had his own will.....yet chose to do the will of the Father.....he was obedient and in harmony with the Fathers will....nonetheless he had his own will.

He chose to be obedient to the Fathers will.

Jesus is quoted in Luke 22:42, “Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine be done.


Not my will....which proves he had his own will.

Just as we have...we can choose to defy the Father........be disobedient...a Born Again are also partakers Of the divine nature, when we become Born Again, we are still human, but, we have a new heart/ spirit within.


◄ 2 Peter 1:4 ►
Audio Crossref Comment Greek
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

New Living Translation
And because of his glory and excellence, he has given us great and precious promises. These are the promises that enable you to share his divine nature and escape the world’s corruption caused by human desires.

English Standard Version
by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.

Berean Standard Bible
Through these He has given us His precious and magnificent promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, now that you have escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Teaching Jesus “IS” a human man is FALSE.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among nations, believed on in the world, and received up into glory.

 

[Ritajanice]

Gods Spiritual Understanding MAKES NO SENSE to the Carnal mind

Spiritual understanding can also make no sense to a Born Again, because only the Spirit can bring the written word to our understanding by divine revelation and in Gods timing.

So, it’s not just unbelievers who don’t understand the written word....a Born Again is taught by the Holy Spirit to understand God’s written word...which comes by divine revelation....that’s my opinion/ belief.

I had absolutely no understanding of God’s written word, when I first became Born Again, that’s all I knew...that I was “ Born Again “ we journey with God on our path to spiritual understanding...it’s not learnt in an instance, we are spirit children.....no longer worldly children....even though we live in this world, we aren’t of it no longer....Praise God.

 

[Matthias]

Plus he had his own will, did he not?

Yes, he did. As do all human persons.

 

[Taken]

I think I asked you the question if Jesus had his own will?

Jesus will is Gods will…
Remember Jesus was/is MANS example…experiencing what Human men experience…and how to react that is pleasing to God.

 

[Matthias]

Correct.
Spirits do not BECOME humans.

Everything ABOUT God IS Spirit…IS HOLY, His Being, His Word, His Power, Can come forth OUT from God, while always remaining IN God.)


Jesus is the Name of Gods Word.
Jesus is the Same yesterday, today, forever.
Every Time Gods WORD comes forth OUT from God, God IS giving His Holy Knowledge to manKind… The Understanding IS…God sends forth His Word and What His Word Says…It is So.

Example…
Gen 1:
[3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.



Your position…You taught others.
Your position…”other faith”
Your position…Jesus IS a Human.

My position…men have taught other men false teachings.
My position….God IS Spirit, that which comes forth out from God IS Spirit, and remains In God.

Jesus position…
John 16:
[27] For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

John 14:
[10] Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.



God purposed IN Himself…to accomplish what HUMAN MEN could not.
Eph 1:
[9] Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

God pre-told ISAIAH…
Isa 55:
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

WHAT THING?

Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Sent that THING where?

Luke 1:
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Luke 1:
[31] And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

Luke 1:
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

** Fast forward 30 + Years

Acts 13:
[33] God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Gods Father / Son relationship was Gods DECLARATION.

Heb 1:
[5] For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?



I’m sure this is of your “other faith” and teachings you learned of men that you inturn taught to other men.

The Word of God, came forth out of Gods MOUTH and was by the Power of God Sent to a specific (OF THE HOUSE OF KING DAVID) females womb, to Expressly FULFILL…Gods Law, Mans Law…that ONLY a direct descendent OF KING DAVID…could LEGALLY be seated ON King David’s “everlasting” Throne (IN Jerusalem)…

Preparedness…FOR WHEN Jesus Returns!!

Further…ONLY…a descendent of ABRAHAM, ISSAC, JACOB….can LAWFULLY, LEGALLY, inherit, The Promised Land, AND WHY “The Word of God”….

Heb 2:
[16] For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

God Doesn’t procreate Offspring.
God DECLARES When, Who, How, Why….
He establishes HIS Offspring, HIS People…BY His DECLARATION…and HIMSELF as AN EXAMPLE….FOR….hard nosed, stiffed necked, stubborn ManKIND…that can NOT Believe BY Hearing….RATHER such men MUST “SEE” before they BELIEVE!

A tongue lashing reminder … “ye of OTHER FAITH”…

YOU…
Matthias … Kentucky…other faith

Acts 7:
[51] Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

Good news…you say you no longer teach.

Glory to God,
Taken

My “Other Faith” is primitive Christianity. I no longer teach in college classrooms but I still teach in other settings.

 

[Taken]

According to scripture it was possible, because Jesus had his own will.....yet chose to do the will of the Father.....he was obedient and in harmony with the Fathers will....nonetheless he had his own will.

Disagree..ONE SAME SPIRIT.

He chose to be obedient to the Fathers will.

He taught human men HOW TO REACT in a situation of facing a unjust horrible death.

Jesus is quoted in Luke 22:42, “Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine be done.

If God is willing……is Gods will.
Gods will be done…

Not my will....which proves he had his own will.

Disagree…Can’t explain spiritual things to you.

Just as we have...we can choose to defy the Father........

WE are mortal humans…WE have our own FREEWILL…God/Jesus ONE SAME SPIRIT…

If YOU take on yourself the “role” of a “toddler”….lower your stature….talk as he talks…teaching him HOW to respond to an adult…Does that MAKE YOUR WILL his will…or MAKE you a toddler? No it makes you an “EXAMPLE” the toddler can SEE and HEAR.
Could the toddler defy you? Yes
Could the toddler defy you IF HIS WILL WAS THE SAME AS YOUR WILL? No.

God HUMBLED Himself…which is to say…lowered himself to the Likeness as a human man…to be AN EXAMPLE to human men…and HOW their “actions” and “reactions” to situations IS Pleasing or NOT Pleasing to God.

Either Jesus and God are one and the SAME or they are not.

I say THEY ARE.

John 10:
[30] I and my father ARE One.

Jesus did NOT CHOOSE to obey…any more than God CHOOSES to obey Himself.

Jesus “appearing and acting” AS, LIKE a human man…did not MAKE Him a human man, any more than if an adult “acts” like a toddler IS a toddler.
Any more that a MAN pretending he is a WOMAN, is called a WOMAN…dresses as a WOMAN, has his male member removed…He is still a man, without milk glands, wide pelvis, ovaries, a womb, eggs…


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Spiritual understanding can also make no sense to a Born Again, because only the Spirit can bring the written word to our understanding by divine revelation and in Gods timing.

So, it’s not just unbelievers who don’t understand the written word....a Born Again is taught by the Holy Spirit to understand God’s written word...which comes by divine revelation....that’s my opinion/ belief.

I had absolutely no understanding of God’s written word, when I first became Born Again, that’s all I knew...that I was “ Born Again “ we journey with God on our path to spiritual understanding...it’s not learnt in an instance, we are spirit children.....no longer worldly children....even though we live in this world, we aren’t of it no longer....Praise God.

True… I would guesstimate the majority of even “BORN AGAIN”…do not read, study, or have meaningful one on one “conversations”with God….Not saying they do not pray…sure they do…asking for healings, comfort, new jobs, new house, big TV’s, new car, better relationships between men, spouses, children, etc…..Point being those things are NOT about what one has read, studied, reread and appealed to God FOR HIS Understanding of their “effort” to read and study.
I can not speak for others, only what I Know I do…which is daily read, study, reread, study, and pipeline to God all the time asking FOR His Understanding….and When I receive it…I trust it without reservation.

God bless you,

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

My “Other Faith” is primitive Christianity. I no longer teach in college classrooms but I still teach in other settings.

I don’t relate to made-up phrases such as …
“No christian faith….but um Primitive Christianity…”…..

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Matthias]

I don’t relate to made-up phrases such as …
“No christian faith….but um Primitive Christianity…”…..

Glory to God,
Taken

My faith is Christian but it isn’t Nicene Christianity (the declared official Christian faith of Christianity Board). “Primitive Christianity” (not a registration option on Christianity Board, nor is “Ante Nicene Christianity” a registration option - I’m both) is a widely known and common term in academia. That you think it is a made-up phrase informs of your formal level of education.

I sail under an honest banner for all men to see.

 

[Taken]

My faith is Christian but it isn’t Nicene Christianity (the declared official Christian faith of Christianity Board). “Primitive Christianity” (not a registration option on Christianity Board, nor is “Ante Nicene Christianity” a registration option - I’m both) is a widely known and common term in academia. That you think it is a made-up phrase informs of your formal level of education.

I sail under an honest banner for all men to see.

No problem for me…I prefer to spend my time on an education that matters, rather than that which some men like to philosophically find ways to divide Gods Word up into a jig-saw puzzle to fit their niche.

I don’t think you are unique claiming honesty for yourself…


God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Matthias]

No problem for me…I prefer to spend my time on an education that matters, rather than that which some men like to philosophically find ways to divide Gods Word up into a jig-saw puzzle to fit their niche.

I don’t think you are unique claiming honesty for yourself…


God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

Just so we are clear, I ascribed your comment (“I don’t relate to made-up phrases such as …”) to ignorance, not dishonesty.

My actions on this forum support my claim. If someone doesn’t know that I’m a Jewish monotheist, a primitive Christian, an Ante Nicene Christian - not a Nicene Christian - it’s because they haven’t read what I’ve publicly written on multiple times in multiple threads. I haven’t hidden it from anyone.

 

[Taken]

Just so we are clear, I ascribed your comment (“I don’t relate to made-up phrases such as …”) to ignorance, not dishonesty….

Nothing was said about dishonesty…I responded to your claim you put forth of your own honesty….and don’t think that is unique, many other men think the same of themselves.

My actions on this forum support my claim. If someone doesn’t know that I’m a Jewish monotheist, a primitive Christian, an Ante Nicene Christian - not a Nicene Christian - it’s because they haven’t read what I’ve publicly written on multiple times in multiple threads. I haven’t hidden it from anyone.

No one is talking about hiding anything…I personally don’t care much about everyones “labels”…. Of which the list of “labels” seems to be never-ending and time deflecting from other “educational” things I find more worthy of my time.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ritajanice]

Ok, @Taken , for some reason I’m unable to quote your post.

We have obviously come to understand what we believe Gods truth to be very differently...no point arguing over it, not that we are.

I would just like to finish our discussion by saying, that Jesus was Not God....God came down in the flesh as a man, that man was human , his name was Jesus...who did the will of the Father out of choice...

Jesus is quoted in Luke 22:42, “Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine be done.
He was not the God that we know in His Kingdom....he took on the role of a human man.....if he hadn’t had the choice .......he would Of then been a robot / puppet on a string....who would have been controlled by God.
God imo did not control Jesus, he laid his life down for us and obeyed his Father out of love and choice......God knew beforehand that Jesus would do the will of the Father, that’s why he sent him in human form , through the womb of a human woman...she gave birth to a human baby.just as we see in scripture.
I have to say....I too have been adamant on what I believed was the truth at one time, I’ve since learned to open my mind to the Spirit.....when one is tunnel visioned as I once was..we learn absolutely nothing....we tend to put ourselves on our high horse, only see things our way and have no concern for other people’s beliefs/ opinions..we close our ears....

Also humbling ourselves before the Lord is also spiritual understanding......to humble ourselves as Jesus humbled himself is a wonderful experience.....the Spirit helps us how to let go of the self.....self is extremely powerful.....when we think we know it all, which imo comes across in our wording.

I know nothing .....only the truth of the Lord will prevail...

Just my thoughts/ opinions/ beliefs like yours and everyone else’s.....

Short commentary.interesting.

Jesus wasn't just a godly person with great spiritual insights, nor was He only a great moral and spiritual teacher. He was more than these, because He was both fully human and fully divine (which is why He was called the Son of God). Think of it: God became a man, and that Man was Jesus Christ.

In the four Gospels, there is ample evidence that Jesus was fully human since He was born to a human mother (Matthew 1:25), He experienced hunger (Matthew 21:18) and thirst (John 19:28). Jesus also experienced temptation (Matthew 4:1) pain and suffering (Matthew 16:21), and He died (Matthew (27:50).

 

[face2face]

It could have happened, right?



We are told in the Bible of the many temptations that Jesus faced during his earthly life. For example, in the Gospel of Matthew, we read the following:



Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. After he fasted forty days and forty nights (which means Jesus did not eat the mid-day meal during those 40 days, he could eat morning and evening) he was famished. The tempter came and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become bread."



And you know the rest of the story. Jesus quotes Scripture, and after all is said and done, he overcomes these temptations, and the devil departs for a while. We are told later by the writer of the book of Hebrews that Jesus was tempted in all points like we are.



Let’s take a look at what appears to have been a possibility: Jesus sinning. Some theologians believe that Christ could have sinned, otherwise the temptations were not temptations at all.



Let’s further speculate: What would have happened to Jesus had he sinned?



Well, a person who sins is a sinner. So, I guess the answer to this question is that Jesus would have become a sinner. But would God have abandoned Jesus? Would not God have provided a means of salvation for his now sinful son, as well as us?



He would have had to. I mean, God made promises to people long before Jesus was born, and many of those promises included salvation. Fortunately, even if Jesus failed/sinned, God the Father could have provided for our salvation, as well as Jesus’.



But, that raises yet another question, or better yet, a dilemma.



Since Jesus could have sinned (I speak as a man), I guess we would have to be consistent and say the God the Father could sin also. Why would he have been any different?



In fact, Jesus came to die on the cross for us. Assuming he sinned, God the Father would then have to go to the cross. Someone had to pay the penalty for sin! God loves the world because he is love.



Since we are thinking hypothetically, let’s further assume that God the Father would have come to earth to die for us, that is, God the Father would have had to pick up where Jesus left off.



Let’s follow this bizarre idea, since if Jesus could have sinned, such a possibility must have existed. We are only examining what the Bible tells us: That Jesus was tempted.



With Jesus a sinner, God the Father now offers himself as a sacrifice for the sins of the world.



So, God the Father comes to earth to die for our sins. But suppose He also yielded to temptation and sinned, just as his son did. (God forbid!)



That’s Two down, One to go. I mean, we believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. With the Son and Father now sinners, the Holy Spirit is the last chance for all sinners, including now the Father and Son, both of whom have joined the ranks with us sinners.



As respectfully as I can, may I ask one final question: What if the Holy Spirit came to redeem all sinners, and what if, and I mean this is stretching it, but what if he also gave in to temptation and became a sinner?



If Jesus could have sinned, then it would follow that so could his equals (the Father and Holy Spirit).



Admittedly this did not happen, but we simply must conceive of what would have happened had Jesus sinned! If the temptations were real, he had to have been able to give in; otherwise the temptations were not real, right?

One final observation. Jesus was prophesied/promised to die and be resurrected in order for him to rule over the nation of Israel. If Jesus had sinned, this would make many OT promises a lie. The implications of Jesus sinning are staggering.

Yes he could, however God made him strong for His Purpose. He was tempted in all points as we are yet did not sin. If he couldn't sin what would that make him?

But if you believe he could sin then you must believe he had your exact nature - can't have it both ways

F2F