THE CHURCH

[bro.tan]

So let me ask Tan, is salvation hinged on my church affiliation? Must I belong to a particular church denomination and subscribe to all their rules and tenets in order to be saved?

A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19).

This was a direct answer to a direct question, which all of us will do well to take heed to. Anybody can claim to have faith, but actions speak louder than words. Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12).

Throughout the bible we find that in order to receive eternal salvation we must keep God's commandments to the end. If we make a mistake we must not give up, but I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:13-14). The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14). After this we find only seven more verses in the bible, and none of them does away with God's commandments.

Find you a church that's going to keep the Lord's Commandments, Statues and Judgements.
Do not let anyone convince you that it's wrong to keep God's commandments. Don't let anyone deprive you of the opportunity to receive eternal life. We were deprived of this opportunity once, but the death of Jesus has given us another chance. All have sinned (broken the law...Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law (I John 3:4) and the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23).

 

[Berean]

You are probably goading me into being banned, right.

Really? Is your faith not allowed on here? Or are you ashamed of what you are?

 

[Berean]

A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19).

And what commands are you referring too? The 10 commandments? The Sabbath? The Law? The Holy Days?

 

[Keiw]

Really? Is your faith not allowed on here? Or are you ashamed of what you are?

Not at all, you already know what religion i am, thus must have ulterior motives.

 

[Berean]

Not at all, you already know what religion i am, thus must have ulterior motives.

Wow ... and you won't tell the rest of the forum? Aren't you suppose to save us all, as the Ethiopian told Philip; when asked if he understood what he was reading, "How can I, unless someone guides me?”

 

[Keiw]

Wow ... and you won't tell the rest of the forum? Aren't you suppose to save us all, as the Ethiopian told Philip; when asked if he understood what he was reading, "How can I, unless someone guides me?”

The rest of the forum knows just by my posts. I will gladly answer bible questions to any who ask( except-Jack)-He has proven 100% he blatantly stands in opposition to Jehovah.

 

[Berean]

The rest of the forum knows just by my posts.

What about new members who don't know? Shouldn't you at least have it on your profile?

 

[bro.tan]

And what commands are you referring too? The 10 commandments? The Sabbath? The Law? The Holy Days?

The Lord bless me to teach the uncut word of God according to the Prophets (Old Testament) and the Apostles (New Testament). We observe the Lord’s Sabbath Day, the Lord’s Feast Days (as outlined in Leviticus 23rd chapter), and the Lord’s Dietary Law (as outlined in Leviticus 11th chapter). We teach and observe the Royal Law, which is the Ten Commandments. All the apostles observe all these Commandments, Statues, and Judgement years after the death of Jesus.

We also believe in the resurrection and that Jesus is the King of Israel who will rule over the House of Jacob forever. We believe Jesus is the God of all people and his house “shall be a house of prayer for all people”. (Isaiah 56:7)

 

[Keiw]

What about new members who don't know? Shouldn't you at least have it on your profile?

You best take Gods advice and --make sure of all things--like the facts i post.

 

[ChristinaL]

Truth oftentimes, to many seems stranger then fiction. Such is the case when it comes, to the observance of God’s 7th Day Sabbath. Each Sunday millions of people attend church services for the purpose of worshiping the Lord. Most not realizing they can’t read one time in the Holy Bible to attend church on the first day of the week Sunday. This is second nature to most requiring no thought. They are simply following the tradition that has been set forth by man. Many believe that New Testament Christians worshiped on Sunday the 1st day of the week, and that the 7th day Sabbath is a Jewish institution, which started with Moses.

We understand that Peter said in 2Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Peter is letting us know that prophecy, from Genesis to Malachi is more surer then the New Testament. Let see how Paul word it in Ephesians 2: 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

So is Paul telling the Gentiles how important the old testament is, and how they have the same laws as Israel do. In the scriptures it's written in Isaiah 8: 20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Now any Christian in their right mind wouldn’t dare say that it’s okay to steal, kill or commit adultery or break any of the other seven commandments. But when it comes to the fourth commandment, people avoid it like a plague! They are either uninformed about which day is the Sabbath day of the God of the Bible or they are just following the tradition of religion that was passed down through the family or maybe they have let some preacher give them other excuses for ignoring God’s true day of worship.

The Sabbath Day of the Lord -God of the Bible. (Gen.2:2-5) (v.2) And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. (v.3) And God blessed the seventh day (every seventh day of the week is a blessed and holy day) and sanctified it (it is a day that is separated (sanctified) for a purpose) because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. (v.5) “and there was not a man to till the ground.” There was not a Jew, Catholic, Baptist, or Seventh Day Adventist; in fact, there was not a Christian when He constituted the Sabbath Day!

Jesus Christ (John 1:1-3, 10-14) 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

He is the one who rested on the Sabbath day and commanded that you do the same. If you really understood the scriptures you would realize that He was the one who became known as Jesus who gave you the Ten Commandments. So not only did He command you to cease from your work on that day He also commanded you to. (Lev.23:3) “Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of rest, an holy convocation;” He said on the Sabbath day that you should also have an holy convocation, which means holy gathering or simply put, go to church. Remember in Acts 7: 38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Acts 20:7And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

SUNDAY

 

[ChristinaL]

The Lord bless me to teach the uncut word of God according to the Prophets (Old Testament) and the Apostles (New Testament). We observe the Lord’s Sabbath Day, the Lord’s Feast Days (as outlined in Leviticus 23rd chapter), and the Lord’s Dietary Law (as outlined in Leviticus 11th chapter). We teach and observe the Royal Law, which is the Ten Commandments. All the apostles observe all these Commandments, Statues, and Judgement years after the death of Jesus.

We also believe in the resurrection and that Jesus is the King of Israel who will rule over the House of Jacob forever. We believe Jesus is the God of all people and his house “shall be a house of prayer for all people”. (Isaiah 56:7)

All apostles observed those commandments because they were JEWS.

But have you forgotten that the Gentiles were not to have such burdens laid upon them?

Acts 15:19-20

9Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 2

Colossians 2:16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

 

[ChristinaL]

A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19).

This was a direct answer to a direct question, which all of us will do well to take heed to. Anybody can claim to have faith, but actions speak louder than words. Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12).

Throughout the bible we find that in order to receive eternal salvation we must keep God's commandments to the end. If we make a mistake we must not give up, but I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:13-14). The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14). After this we find only seven more verses in the bible, and none of them does away with God's commandments.

Find you a church that's going to keep the Lord's Commandments, Statues and Judgements.
Do not let anyone convince you that it's wrong to keep God's commandments. Don't let anyone deprive you of the opportunity to receive eternal life. We were deprived of this opportunity once, but the death of Jesus has given us another chance. All have sinned (broken the law...Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law (I John 3:4) and the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23).

Then you make our salvation to be all about our works rather than glorifying God. We keep the law because we love God and dont want to sin; not because its 'required' of us for salvation . You make it all about us and not about the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross who died for us because we CANT keep the Law!

 

[ChristinaL]

The Lord bless me to teach the uncut word of God according to the Prophets (Old Testament) and the Apostles (New Testament). We observe the Lord’s Sabbath Day, the Lord’s Feast Days (as outlined in Leviticus 23rd chapter), and the Lord’s Dietary Law (as outlined in Leviticus 11th chapter). We teach and observe the Royal Law, which is the Ten Commandments. All the apostles observe all these Commandments, Statues, and Judgement years after the death of Jesus.

We also believe in the resurrection and that Jesus is the King of Israel who will rule over the House of Jacob forever. We believe Jesus is the God of all people and his house “shall be a house of prayer for all people”. (Isaiah 56:7)

And the dietary laws too...you clearly have forgotten the words of Jesus who said that its what comes out of our hearts that make us unclean not what goes into our mouths and eventually out the back door. Matthew 15:17

Much of the Levitical dietary law too was mostly about keeping the Jews from eating certain foods that might bring on illness. Eating pig for example- though we under the grace of Christ are permitted to eat whatever we wish if you are living in parts of the world where your only access to good bacon and pork chops is the wild kind its best not to eat it as pigs are walking garbage bins who eat even their own fecal matter.

Shellfish too were forbidden because clams and oysters are the ocean's toxic waste filters

God commanded the Jews to eat only red meat from ruminants because those animals break down food more thoroughly than animals who do not have partitioned stomachs so food borne bacteria will be destroyed more thoroughly

Meat from predatory birds/other animals was also forbidden because, again, food borne bacteria from the blood of their prey

 

[Berean]

You best take Gods advice and --make sure of all things--like the facts i post.

Just remember Keiw, ANY Truth you have, (and it isn't much) you got from us.

 

[bro.tan]

And the dietary laws too...you clearly have forgotten the words of Jesus who said that its what comes out of our hearts that make us unclean not what goes into our mouths and eventually out the back door. Matthew 15:17

Much of the Levitical dietary law too was mostly about keeping the Jews from eating certain foods that might bring on illness. Eating pig for example- though we under the grace of Christ are permitted to eat whatever we wish if you are living in parts of the world where your only access to good bacon and pork chops is the wild kind its best not to eat it as pigs are walking garbage bins who eat even their own fecal matter.

Shellfish too were forbidden because clams and oysters are the ocean's toxic waste filters

God commanded the Jews to eat only red meat from ruminants because those animals break down food more thoroughly than animals who do not have partitioned stomachs so food borne bacteria will be destroyed more thoroughly

Meat from predatory birds/other animals was also forbidden because, again, food borne bacteria from the blood of their prey

I clearly remember the words of Jesus in Matthew. Then came to Jesus the Scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, “Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.” (Matthew 15:1-2)

Note what verse the states, "they wash not their hands when they eat bread." We see the subject is, eating without washing hands correct? Note something else in the above verse. The Pharisees asked Jesus, “Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders?” Note the Lord's response;

But he answered and said unto them, “Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. But ye say, whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; and honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.” (Matthew 15: 3-6)

The Pharisees followed their own tradition as a substitute to the commandments of God. Note what Jesus says next.

Ye hypocrites, well did Esaiah prophesy of you, saying, “This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.” (Matthew 15:7-9)

The Pharisees of today (meaning the preachers) teach the doctrine of men, by making statements such as, "We are not under the law we are under grace.” Not knowing which law we are no longer under. Therefore their flocks are ever learning, meaning not coming to the true faith. Thus they worship the Lord in vain.

Let's cut to the chase, and see if the passage above has anything to do with doing away with dietary law.
And he called the multitude, and said unto them, “Hear, and understand: Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.”(Matthew 15:10-11)

So what is this that comes out of men's mouths that defiles them? Let's skip to the 15th verse These are verse and see if the Lord is doing away with His dietary law.

Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable. And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding? Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.” (Matthew 15:15-20).

Note what the Lord says, "Those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man." Now we see brother and sisters that, this set of verses has nothing to do with the dietary law being nail to the cross. In fact the Lord tells the apostles what defiles men and that is breaking His commandments, note eating with unwashed hands.

 

[bro.tan]

Then you make our salvation to be all about our works rather than glorifying God. We keep the law because we love God and dont want to sin; not because its 'required' of us for salvation . You make it all about us and not about the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross who died for us because we CANT keep the Law!

Paul said in (1 Cor. 9:24-27) (v.24) Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. (v.25) And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown: but we an incorruptible. Paul says that when you run in a race every body is running for a prize. But this prize that he is referring to is eternal life, that’s what he means by an incorruptible, he’s talking about an incorruptible body, a heavenly body. (v.26) I therefore so run, not as uncertainly, so fight, not as one that beateth the air: (v.27) But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. You see Paul knew exactly what was going on that why he says he has to bring his body under subjection. Under subjection to what? To God’s Law, Paul knew that if he didn’t continue to keep Gods law that even after he had preached to many that he himself could still become a castaway. This doesn’t sound like Paul thinks that he has guarantee salvation.

 

[bro.tan]

All apostles observed those commandments because they were JEWS.

But have you forgotten that the Gentiles were not to have such burdens laid upon them?

Acts 15:19-20

9Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 2

Colossians 2:16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

That was a debate in Acts to deal with Gentiles. When Paul became more of an apostle to the Gentiles things where more clear concerning the law. But let's take a look some at this in Acts 15: 5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. 6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

That was right because in the scriptures it’s written in Numbers 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

Now Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom, no one else. This should of been the end of it. Jesus says in Matthew 16: 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

But Let's skip down and see what James says, 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

If a Gentile believe this is all they have to do to get in the kingdom of God, then there's no need for the rest of the bible. Paul taught the Gentiles to keep the sabbath day on the seventh day of the week, but to today, Sunday is kept. A day that's not in the Bible. Now lets take a look at this in (Acts 13:13-15, 42, 44) (v.13) Now when Paul and his company loosed from Pa’-phus, they came to Per’-ga in Pam-phyl’-I-a: and John departing from them returned to Jerusalem. (v.14) But when they departed from Per’-ga, they came to An’-ti-och in Pi-sid’-I-a, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down. Paul went into the church (synagogue) on the sabbath day the seventh day not the first day (Sunday). (v.15) And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on. (v.42) And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

The Gentiles didn’t asked Paul to come preach us something different next Sunday. They wanted Paul to preach to them the same thing that he taught the Jews, the next sabbath. Even the Gentiles knew that if they were going to serve the same God that Paul and the Jews (Israelites) served that they would have to serve him on the day that God had set up. (v.42) And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. Not the next Sunday but the next sabbath. The Sabbath day on the seventh day is the only day that had a name. The only day to attend church.

Let’s skip down to verse 24, Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

See Paul was just getting started dealing with the Gentile, all this was cleared up as time went on. Now, Paul says in Romans 7 Now, Paul said in (Rom. 7:7, 12) (v.7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET. Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law. (v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

 

[bro.tan]

Acts 20:7And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

SUNDAY

The Acts of the Apostles is the second book attributed to Luke, I believe written about 80-90 A.D., we now come to one of the most frequently quoted verses of Paul to support the false teaching of the sacredness of Sunday: (Acts: 20: 7) And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. Now let’s take a close look at this verse and dissect it a little. Notice Paul continued his speech until midnight! It was after sunset, but prior to midnight. The first day of the week in biblical times did not begin at midnight, as men begin it today.

The Lord’s days begin and end at evening (sunset). (Gen. 1:5) And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first. All biblical days began and ended at sunset. Throughout the Roman world at that time, and for a few hundred years afterward, days began and ended at sunset. The practice of beginning the new day at midnight was started much later.

So this meeting, and Paul’s preaching, took place during the time that we now call Saturday night. Remember when dealing with the Lord’s days the evening comes first. If you read more than just that one verse you would see what actually happen. Paul’s companions were engaged in the labor of rowing and sailing a boat while Paul was preaching that Saturday night and early Sunday. They had set sail Saturday night, after the sabbath had ended. Paul remained behind for one more farewell sermon. Then at day break Sunday morning, Paul set afoot, walking from Tro’-as to As’-sos to meet the ship. So actually Paul left Sunday Morning, but this verse (Acts: 20:7) says nothing about a change of the Lord’s holy sabbath day. And the term “break bread” simply means to eat, so every time Paul ate he broke bread, search it out for your self, the bible tells you to; (1Thess. 5:21) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

The keeping of Sunday as the Christian sabbath is not of God but of Man. If you are a true Christian, which means a follower of Christ or to be Christ like; then why are you following a day set up by man? We have proved that Paul kept the Lord’s sabbath well after the death and resurrection of Christ. So why are you going to church on the first day of the week? Well if you don’t know history will tell you why.

ORIGIN OF SUNDAY WORSHIP

Ample evidence from history shows that the celebration of Sunday originated from pagan practices of SUN WORSHIP. In March of 321 A.D., the Roman Emperor Constantine, who was at first a sun-worshiper and later a Christian convert, issued the first decree declaring Sunday to be a legal day of rest. In 336 A.D., the Roman Catholic Church officially changed the observance of Sabbath to Sunday for political and economic expediency. Since then, the original Sabbath gradually gave way to Sunday observance and the practice remains to this day.

 

[Keiw]

Just remember Keiw, ANY Truth you have, (and it isn't much) you got from us.

All truth originates with God.

 

[Berean]

All truth originates with God.

True, so why do your leaders constantly change their so-called Truths? What was Truth yesterday should still be Truth today, and please don't quote Proverbs 4:18