APOSTASIA in the LXX

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KUWN

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Here are some numbers and meanings that should help bible students understand the meaning of the word APOSTASIA in 2 Thes 2.

APOSTASIA and its cognates appear over 220 times in the LXX. They have a variety of meanings. 66 times in the LXX the meaning is a physical, spatial departure or separation from someone or something. 53 times it is used of a religious departure, and only 8 times it refers to a political departure.

I point out these numbers because often times you hear that APOSTASIA means a religious departure from the faith most of the time. That does not bear true for the Greek Old Testament.
 
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TribulationSigns

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Here are some numbers and meanings that should help bible students understand the meaning of the word APOSTASIA in 2 Thes 2.

APOSTASIA and its cognates appear over 220 times in the LXX. They have a variety of meanings. 66 times in the LXX the meaning is a physical, spatial departure or separation from someone or something. 53 times it is used of a religious departure, and only 8 times it refers to a political departure.

I point out these numbers because often times you hear that APOSTASIA means a religious departure from the faith most of the time. That does not bear true for the Greek Old Testament.

Bet you got this nonsense from Thomas Ice lately? :p

That's because you are "reading into " this word a "departure into heaven" that is not written there, nor implied in any sense of the context. The word literally means to desert or separate (which could be described as departing), and by extension or implication, to forsake something or someone. Just as this Greek word is translated "forsake" in another place in Acts. eg:

Acts 21:21
  • "And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs."
The Bible "being its own interpreter," we see that the word [apostasia] is clearly used here to denote his instruction to the people to "forsake" or "depart" (turn away from) the teaching that one must be circumcised. Clearly, it denotes a forsaking doctrines, or departing from (what they considered) the word of Moses. In the final analysis, we have to remember that the Bible is its own dictionary and interpreter. Not Webster, nor Concordance Commentaries, nor Greek scholars for that matter.

To forsake is in some sense to abandon or depart from something or someone. If I forsake my friends, then I have in some sense departed from them. Even if we're still in the same room or at the same table. So it doesn't denote physically leaving. But that's not even the real issue they have. The real issue is that their theory is that "this" forsaking or separation means rapture, and without one shred of Biblical justification. There really is no mystery to the word, but we know people will always look for ways to twist both the Hebrew and Greek to conform to their own personal/private interpretations and beliefs. So we always have to "Beware of gifts bearing Greek!"

Again, the word literally means breaking away from, or separating from. For example, as in separating from doctrines, from lifestyles or divorcing oneself from another. In fact, if you look up the Greek word divorcement in the New Testament, you will find its [apostasion], the feminine of which is [apostasia]. So where is the mystery? Its a separating from. The falling away (Apostasy) is the separation from the truth, the forsaking of the Christian faith, which is manifested by the sinful man ruling in the Lord's house. And the context of 2nd Thessalonians 2 all but declares this clearly, and commands the faithful to "stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." In other words, when you see this, don't you forsake the truth, but stand fast, remain faithful to the word delivered unto you.

Therein is the mystery between the man of sin, and the man of righteousness. The man seeking to rule in God's stead, and the man under rule of God. The man who holds fast the faith, and the man that departs from the faith.

...but if you think any of this will change anyone's mind, it won't. Their problem is not the Greek word [apostasia], but the doctrine of rapture before the end of the world. Its doctrine, and receiving it, not Greek.

1st Timothy 4:1
  • "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;"
The seducing spirit of the Antichrist Harlot is among us, the apostasy is among us, the departing is among us, the forsaking is among us. But we are still here.

Also, the word [apostasia] is also found in the The Septuagint ,and in every instance means religious defection. Defection in this context means to abandon a position, doctrine, ideology or association, often to join an opposing group or ideology. For example, you've heard of Chinese defecting to the United states, right? They have abandoned their allegiance, ideology or association with China to embrace or join another ideology, association or residence. Well, in religion its the same. Where one abandons their previous ideologies (beliefs) or associations. i.e., to "forsake" or separate oneself from certain beliefs. Not a physical departure from the planet Earth to the air.

Selah!
 
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covenantee

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Here are some numbers and meanings that should help bible students understand the meaning of the word APOSTASIA in 2 Thes 2.

APOSTASIA and its cognates appear over 220 times in the LXX. They have a variety of meanings. 66 times in the LXX the meaning is a physical, spatial departure or separation from someone or something. 53 times it is used of a religious departure, and only 8 times it refers to a political departure.

I point out these numbers because often times you hear that APOSTASIA means a religious departure from the faith most of the time. That does not bear true for the Greek Old Testament.
Proof?
 
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WPM

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Here are some numbers and meanings that should help bible students understand the meaning of the word APOSTASIA in 2 Thes 2.

APOSTASIA and its cognates appear over 220 times in the LXX. They have a variety of meanings. 66 times in the LXX the meaning is a physical, spatial departure or separation from someone or something. 53 times it is used of a religious departure, and only 8 times it refers to a political departure.

I point out these numbers because often times you hear that APOSTASIA means a religious departure from the faith most of the time. That does not bear true for the Greek Old Testament.
Are you expecting us to take your word? Present the evidence.
 
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KUWN

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It's time for you to start doing your own original research. This can be easily verified with a good Internet search. But, I am sure you will not believe it even if it were proven. Get a good concordance and a copy of the LXX. Start counting. People who want others to do the work for them are generally very lazy. I am not saying you are lazy, I am just encouraging to do your own research so you can know truth from falsity.
 
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covenantee

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It's time for you to start doing your own original research. This can be easily verified with a good Internet search. But, I am sure you will not believe it even if it were proven. Get a good concordance and a copy of the LXX. Start counting. People who want others to do the work for them are generally very lazy. I am not saying you are lazy, I am just encouraging to do your own research so you can know truth from falsity.
You're the claimant, so the proof burden is yours.
Why are you afraid to present your evidence?
If it exists. :laughing:
The issue is not the number of times it appears in the LXX or anywhere else.
The issue is whether or not it means "rapture" in 2 Thessalonians 2:3.
It doesn't.
"Ice T." (Thomas Ice) admits one J.S. Mabie as being the first to conjure it in 1859:
"J. S. Mabie is said to have presented the view that “the departure” refers to the rapture as early as 1859 during a prophecy conference in Los Angeles.[12] He later wrote his view in an article published in November 1895 in a periodical called Morning Star."
It is a figment of dispensational modernism and revisionism.
 
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TribulationSigns

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Please do not reply to any of my posts. This reply is a sarcastic reply demonstrating that you can not provide proof. I am offended with this reply from you.

No KUWN. Covenantee did provide proof which you chose not to accept. Not our problem. The ball is in your court. So where is YOUR biblical evidence IN THE BIBLE with your understanding that APOSTASIA "is" the rapture of the church? Your original post with "LXX" is purely speculation. Not biblical fact.
 
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KUWN

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No KUWN. Covenantee did provide proof which you chose not to accept. Not our problem. The ball is in your court. So where is YOUR biblical evidence IN THE BIBLE with your understanding that APOSTASIA "is" the rapture of the church? Your original post with "LXX" is purely speculation. Not biblical fact.
I am amazed at how vicious some Christians are out here. I am just posting out here, if you don't believe me, I could care less.
 
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covenantee

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Please do not reply to any of my posts. This reply is a sarcastic reply demonstrating that you can not provide proof. I am offended with this reply from you.
I had no idea that you'd be offended, and you haven't specified what has offended you and why.
 

marks

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Please do not reply to any of my posts. This reply is a sarcastic reply demonstrating that you can not provide proof. I am offended with this reply from you.
When someone resorts to ridicule that tells me they don't have a better argument. Or just that they have limited social skills maybe.

Much love!
 
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marks

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Also, the word [apostasia] is also found in the The Septuagint ,and in every instance means religious defection. Defection in this context means to abandon a position, doctrine, ideology or association, often to join an opposing group or ideology.
I don't think that's true as I recall having looked at this myself. In certain cases it meant a rebellion against a political leader, and in other cases it's amiguous.

The fact is, the word itself means departure. And while a very common usage was for a departure from the Law or Moses or a king, or even from God, the reason it could be used that way is because the word itself means departure, and it's used that way also.

Consider the other instance of apostasia in the NT, in Acts 21, they accused Paul of teaching apostasia from Moses. Departure from Moses, which is a spiritual departure, from the Law given through Moses. We know this precisely, because the context is plain, that he was teaching "apostasian" "apo moseos", departure away from Moses. There are two bits of information we are given, 1, that they are departing, and 2, what they are departing from, that is, Moses.

So you always have to use context to determine to what this word departure is referring.

Much love!
 

TribulationSigns

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I don't think that's true as I recall having looked at this myself. In certain cases it meant a rebellion against a political leader, and in other cases it's amiguous.

The fact is, the word itself means departure. And while a very common usage was for a departure from the Law or Moses or a king, or even from God, the reason it could be used that way is because the word itself means departure, and it's used that way also.

No, this is not about "physical departure" at all.

The word apostasy [apostasia], as used in scripture, is by definition a "deserting or forsaking" of the truth by the church. You can't fall away or desert the truth if you have never been enlightened by it, and had tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers (Hebrews 6:4) of the Holy Ghost by being a part of the external Covenant congregation. Apostasy is when those in the church defect from the sound doctrines of Christ to unfaithful and self serving doctrines of men. So yes, the Apostasy is in the church today excuse-makers notwithstanding.

Nevertheless, as I said before, as the church goes, so the world goes. Because the church (true church) is indeed supposed to be the "light of the world" through Christ. And it is God that restrains sin in the world for the sake of the church. Take that light of Christ away, and the world is brought to darkness where the end is surely nigh. Take the doctrines of Christ out of the church, and the world is in a sense without form and void. Take Christ from the way, and there is great iniquity. In other words, it's a matter of cause and effect.

John 8:12
  • "Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."
Matthew 5:13-14
  • "Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his Saviour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
  • Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid."
If the light (Gospel) in the church is taken away from the world, as Christ called us the light of the world, then the world will surely be in darkness. If the "continual" or daily sacrifice is taken away by transgression, then spiritually speaking the Sanctuary will without power. The question is, who cast it down? If the Spirit that restrains iniquity is removed out of the midst, then there is no restraint of iniquity in the world by God. It's all inter-related. We need to understand that Satan was bound and iniquity was restrained by God "for a reason." And when the purpose for its restraint has been fulfilled (Revelation 7:3) or completed, the reason to restrain iniquity is over, and it can thus be released (2nd Thessalonians 2:7) as judgment.

Revelation 6:10-11
  • "And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
  • And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."
God is long-suffering (patient) and He will not remove His Spirit from the midst of the church until every single one (2nd Peter 3:9) of those chosen from before the foundation of the world has been sealed by that Spirit first. By the same token, when that task has been completed, it can and will be removed from the way that iniquity may increase to usher in the return of the Lord. Because when the love of God is gone in the church, by definition, iniquity increases (and vice versa). Cause and effect. Sin increases, and the effect is that there is a lack of love for God in the church. Disobedience (iniquity) is the antithesis of Love of God.

Matthew 24:12

  • "And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold."
That's why when members of the church today parrot the words "we love God," it is such a hollow and empty sound. Because love of God is illustrated in obedience and faithfulness, not by words and platitudes. The truth is, a tree is known by it's fruits.

Anyway, the point I'm making is that when iniquity is no longer restrained in the midst of the Holy Temple, then the effect of this will be that great iniquity (once restrained) will be loosed upon the world. A great tribulation for the righteous remnant, a great darkness in the world. When that happens there will "naturally" be more wickedness and anti-Christ behavior as I am seeing today! If I may make an imperfect analogy. It's like when you light a candle in a room. That candle lights up the whole room for everyone inside. But people outside can also see the light coming from the window for miles around (e.g: Jos 2:10). Likewise, the world is benefited by the light of the church without even being in or near the house. For they inherently know of the true God, having originally been made in his likeness.

What you call "the recent outbreak of everyone ridiculing Christianity," is not part of this apostasy (a separate issue), but may very well be the result of it. Apostasy is in the Church, but its results reach far and wide until finally Satan is fully loosed (whenever that is), and there won't be any visible church remaining that is faithful (Revelation 11:7-8). And when God puts out the lights, and takes off his restraint of iniquity, it effects everyone, both inside and outside the church. Cause and effect.

So the church has departs from the faith, not "depart from the planet Earth." We will still be here until Christ returns at the last trump. Not 7 years prior.

Much love!

Much wisdom!
 

TribulationSigns

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The "falling away" is literally an [apostasia] or apostasy. The departure in the church from the law (truth) of God's word by the unfaithful (lawless) man who basically wants to rule as if he were God. This falling away speaks of a time when the Godly man will cease in the church, being replaced by the sinful man. Or the man of sin replaces the man of righteousness. When man, led by the spirit of disobedience (the spirit of antichrist), begins to forsake the Lord by transgressing His laws, this is called falling away from God. It is when man refuses to be subject to the authority of God's actual law, becoming the man of lawlessness who is his own law in God's house. This falling away or apostasy is spoken of as the Great Tribulation period in other places, an abomination that will leave the church desolate. Because it is a time of the loosing of the spirit Satan (that had been restrained) and a time of trouble for the saints. It is the time when the beast rises out of the pit with all lying signs and wonders to deceive professing Christians. For example, in the imagery of Revelation when the Dragon loosed and commands the nations against the camp of the saints. In Revelation, we see the spirit of Satan as it rules coming from the mouths of his false prophets.

Revelation 16:13-14

  • "And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
  • For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."
This is the time of apostasy or falling away that 2nd Thessalonians 2 prophesies must take place before Christ's second advent when the Elect will be rapture out.

But the rapture of the church as the apostasia is wiseful thinking of the false premillennial doctrine.