Did Jesus tell the Pharisees that they were gods? - John 10:34

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
In verse 30 Jesus said...

John 10:30 NIV
I and the Father are one.”

Doubling down on error.

By quoting a Bible verse?

 

[St. SteVen]

It's already been pointed out to you numerous times that Jesus did not correct others and that is again, ignored by you.

I'm glad someone is keeping score. - LOL

For instance, the people of Nazareth said he is the son of Joseph. No correction ... You say .... nothing.

What's to correct?
Jesus was the son of Joseph.
Call him stepfather if you like.
Doesn't negate the "father" part of stepfather.

 

[St. SteVen]

What eisegesis are you reading into the text now? Abuse of capitalization.

It makes a difference. Have you seen this topic? (shameless self-promotion) Link below.
In the NT Greek the definite article (the) is added before Law (capital L), meaning the Books of the Law, but in English the definite article (the) is added before law (in the NT Greek), meaning the actual laws, not the Books of the Law (capital L). Did I lose you? - LOL

Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

- What's the difference between the law and the Law? (capital L) - What's the difference between the law and God's law? - What's the difference between the law, God's law, and Christ's law? The law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law; four different things. Agree, or disagree? Points...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Wrangler]

That saw cuts both ways.
Can you support non-Trinitarianism without "cherry-picking", or an argument from silence?

Yes but not here. ;)

 

[Wrangler]

St. SteVen said:
In verse 30 Jesus said...

John 10:30 NIV
I and the Father are one.”

By quoting a Bible verse?

No, by reading into it what is not there.

 

[BeyondET]

Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[c]? - John 10:34 NIV

This interesting interchange between Jesus and his Jewish opponents (Pharisees?) leaves me wondering
what Jesus was trying to say about his Jewish opponents, or anyone for that matter. Seems as though Jesus answered their
blasphemy charge by saying they too were gods (sons of God), quoting Psalm 82:6 to make his point. (quoted below)

What do you make of this?
Here's the context of John 10:34

John 10:22-39 NIV
Then came the Festival of Dedication[a] at Jerusalem. It was winter,
23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade.
24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying,
“How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe.
The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me,
26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.
27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish;
no one will snatch them out of my hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[b];
no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.
30 I and the Father are one.”
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him,
32 but Jesus said to them,
“I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,”
they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[c]?
35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside—
36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world?
Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?
37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.
38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works,
that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”
39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

Psalm 82:6 NIV
“I said, ‘You are “gods”;
you are all sons of the Most High.’

Interesting they had stones in hand yet didn't throw them and he escaped their grasp.

 

[St. SteVen]

Interesting they had stones in hand yet didn't throw them and he escaped their grasp.

That happened in his hometown as well. They wanted to throw him of a cliff. But he walked away.

Luke 4:28-30 NIV
All the people in the synagogue were furious when they heard this.
29 They got up, drove him out of the town, and took him to the brow of the hill
on which the town was built, in order to throw him off the cliff.
30 But he walked right through the crowd and went on his way.

 

[Wick Stick]

Actually, it makes me wonder about the 82nd Psalm itself. Who are the "elohim" being judged by Elohim in verse 1?

מִזְמוֹר לְאָסָף אֱֽלֹהִים נִצָּב בַּעֲדַת־ אֵל בְּקֶרֶב אֱלֹהִים יִשְׁפֹּֽט ׃82:1

God stands in the congregation of the mighty (or 'God's congregation');
He judges among the gods.

If referring to the leaders of God's congregation (and Jesus clearly understands the Psalm this way), why does the Psalm refer to them as "gods"? If referring to lower-case "g" gods, why exhort them (if such even exist!) to rule with justice for the weak and needy? And for that matter, why is the God of Israel referred to in the plural in Hebrew anyway?

Strong's concordance has the meaning of אֱלֹהִים as:

1. (plural)
   1. rulers, judges
   2. divine ones
   3. angels
   4. gods
2. (plural intensive - singular meaning)
   1. god, goddess
   2. godlike one
   3. works or special possessions of God
   4. the (true) God
   5. God

Ancient Hebrew only has about 8000 words, so most words have several meanings.

 

[St. SteVen]

Excerpt from the OP.

Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[c]? - John 10:34 NIV

This interesting interchange between Jesus and his Jewish opponents (Pharisees?) leaves me wondering
what Jesus was trying to say about his Jewish opponents, or anyone for that matter. Seems as though Jesus answered their
blasphemy charge by saying they too were gods (sons of God), quoting Psalm 82:6 to make his point. (quoted below)

What do you make of this?

More at the OP.

[

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[c]? - John 10:34 NIV

This interesting interchange between Jesus and his Jewish opponents (Pharisees?) leaves me wondering
what Jesus was trying to say about his Jewish opponents, or anyone for that matter. Seems as though Jesus answered their
blasphemy charge by saying they too were gods (sons of God), quoting Psalm 82:6 to make his point. (quoted below)

What do you make of this?

Vocabulary. Many words have more than one sense. The word "god" is one of those words. Fact is, there are many REAL lowercase gods in the Bible and I started a thread on this point.

REAL lowercase gods in Scripture

In a conversation with @marks, I've come to realize an aspect of Christology is the senses of words that there is a common lack of discernment. These include the fact that there are dozens of lords mentioned in Scripture and there are also, not false but REAL lowercase gods in Scripture. Most...

www.christianityboard.com

By way of comparison, if I say I am the president, it could be taken to mean that I am claiming to be the chief executive of the Creature of the Constitution, which some could construe as treasonous. OTOH, the word applies to more than that office and every company has a president. One could get tripped up on the use of the definite verses indefinite article. However, there is no need to read into the claim "of the US."

A few years ago Ps 82:6 was the verse of the year for me. I studied it in great detail. The word god, then as now, also means those in authority, particularly legal authority, such as judges of the law. Our society is the most individualistic culture in human history. As a consequence, we tend to scoff at even the concept of authority. Therefore, it is from this perspective that the verse in question must be understood; by putting aside our own cultural orientation. In v6, God said you (who are in authority) are gods. Powerful stuff! And the Psalm continues powerfully to address the humility these Pharisees ought to have.

I said, “Though you are gods[b]
and children of the Most High,
7 You will die no differently than any mortal;
you will fall like one of the princes.”​

8 Rise up, O True God; judge the rulers of the earth,
for all the nations are Yours.​

Implied in Jesus's defense of calling himself the Son of God is the troubling question of where does Jesus' authority come from? And what is his place in God's order? v8, appeals to the father of Jesus and us all - the one true God (in the sense of Creator) to judge who? The gods of this Earth.

Judging the gods of this Earth is flipping the script. The Pharisees sought to judge the servant of God whose mission is to judge them! Jesus was a master at flipping the script, turning the tables.

Hope this helps.

 

[St. SteVen]

Judging the gods of this Earth is flipping the script. The Pharisees sought to judge the servant of God whose mission is to judge them! Jesus was a master at flipping the script, turning the tables.

So, you believe that Jesus was calling the Pharisees "gods", or no?
I lost your point somewhere. Sorry if I'm being thick-headed.

If yes, he would be calling all of us gods, not just the Pharisees.

[

 

[Wrangler]

So, you believe that Jesus was calling the Pharisees "gods", or no?
I lost your point somewhere. Sorry if I'm being thick-headed.

Yes, Jesus re-iterated YHWH's declaration that the Pharisees are gods (no quotes). Coupled with this is that these earthly gods (no quotes) will be judged by YHWH, the one true God.

If yes, he would be calling all of us gods, not just the Pharisees.

No. Re-read post # 70 regarding authority and rulers. The word god applies to rulers, to those in authority and no one else.

 

[St. SteVen]

Yes, Jesus re-iterated YHWH's declaration that the Pharisees are gods (no quotes). Coupled with this is that these earthly gods (no quotes) will be judged by YHWH, the one true God.

No. Re-read post # 70 regarding authority and rulers. The word god applies to rulers, to those in authority and no one else.

Aha... thanks for that clarification.

So, in the final judgement, leaders (both political and religious) will be judged.
These are the gods Jesus is referring to?

[

 

[Wrangler]

Aha... thanks for that clarification.

So, in the final judgement, leaders (both political and religious) will be judged.
These are the gods Jesus is referring to?

[

Yes but it includes all authorities. Military, teachers in addition to political and religious.

I watched an episode of Dr Blake last night. A female teacher was in an inappropriate relationship with a student who turned 18 during the school year. She was perp walked out of the school.

All authority flows from the sovereign God, YHWH. At most, we operate under his delegated authority, to use as he directs AND never at our own discretion. Losing sight of this, Earthly gods will be destroyed. The Pharisees prolly did not like this humbling reminder NOR the implication that it was he who was sent to judge them.