IS THE REFORMED FAITH BIBLICAL?

[Johann]

Your last paragraph is most interesting since, at the start of the thread, you stated that if I wanted to argue re calvinism, I would stand alone.

Aren't you at all interested in liberating others that are caught up in chains and bondage?
There are landmines and ditches everywhere but you're not willing to warn persons of them?

Looks like you and I are going to clash-what do you think I'm doing here?

J.

 

[St. SteVen]

Unbelievable statements.

LOL
My thoughts are higher than your thoughts, my ways past finding out... (for you anyway)

If something is biblical, you MUST agree with it....

Aha, that's where you went wrong.

Do you agree with Seventh Day Adventism?
Their beliefs are VERY biblical.
Few have gone as far as they have to provide a biblical religion.

It's not for me. In fact I argue against it.
But their position is as biblical as mine.

I suppose your head is really spinning now. - LOL

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Does my being a woman preclude me from knowing any theology?

Ask your husband when you get home. - LOL

That's biblical, right?

1 Corinthians 14:35

 

[BarneyFife]

Spotted @BarneyFife and we must have a sabbath together man!

J.

Do you remember the article I sent you on Calvinism?

:)

 

[Ritajanice]

I come from a tradition that encourages believers to give their best effort for God, and trust the results to God.

Lovely!...Amen!!

 

[BarneyFife]

"Calvinism" or the five-point, reformed faith, as it is sometimes called, was conceived by some unfortunate men who reckoned themselves too intelligent to submit themselves to God's will unless they could presume to explain it, and that God is not to be trusted with the secret things that belong to Him, while we are allowed only the things that are revealed and belong to us and to our children forever (Deut 29:29).

It consists of non-sensical terms like "perfect will" and "contingent will" and has a real problem with God's ability to manage the paradox of sovereignty and free will, the latter of which is a thoroughly abused term that makes the ability to give or withhold love as an autonomous being pleases sound like a hopeless technical challenge.

This ability is much like the origin of sin or evil which is, frankly, inexplicable. Although we do have more clear instruction about how God empowers us to love than we do about what caused Lucifer's initial encounter with pride, and the consequential fall of man. The Bible seems to be more concerned about teaching us how to escape bondage than how we were originally (oh, the "O" word) bound.

Where we get into difficulty is when we ignore the query:

Job 11:7-9 — Canst thou by searching find out God? canst thou find out the Almighty unto perfection? It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know? The measure thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea.

And this comes to mind, as well, when I see so many subjects treated with speculation disguised as scholarship:

Exodus 3:5 KJV — And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

:)

 

[Johann]

We're having a discussion on the reformed faith here.
If you think I'm overpowering because of my posts, you're free not to reply to them.
I'd speak to women exactly the same way I'm speaking to the men here.
Why bring up my sex?
Does my being a woman preclude me from knowing any theology?
Am I not allowed to have a serious discussion on a matter that interests me because I'm female?

And, I happen to like men....I don't know how the world would get along without them.

Now...

This is completely on topic, but it seems you might be a bit slow to catch on.
If you had taken the time to read the links, you would have noticed that I’m also against Reformed theology.
However, you're not giving me the opportunity to fully engage in the discussion.

J.

 

[Ritajanice]

"Calvinism" or the five-point, reformed faith, as it is sometimes called, was conceived by some unfortunate men who reckoned themselves too intelligent to submit themselves to God's will unless they could presume to explain it, and that God is not to be trusted with the secret things that belong to Him, while we are allowed only the things that are revealed and belong to us and to our children forever (Deut 29:29).

It consists of non-sensical terms like "perfect will" and "contingent will" and has a real problem with God's ability to manage the paradox of sovereignty and free will, the latter of which is a thoroughly abused term that makes the ability to give or withhold love as an autonomous being pleases sound like a hopeless technical challenge.

This ability is much like the origin of sin or evil which is, frankly, inexplicable. Although we do have more clear instruction about how God empowers us to love than we do about what caused Lucifer's initial encounter with pride, and the consequential fall of man. The Bible seems to be more concerned about teaching us how to escape bondage than how we were originally (oh, the "O" word) bound.

Where we get into difficulty is when we ignore the query:

Job 11:7-9 — Canst thou by searching find out God? canst thou find out the Almighty unto perfection? It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know? The measure thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea.

And this comes to mind, as well, when I see so many subjects treated with speculation disguised as scholarship:

Exodus 3:5 KJV — And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

:)

Do you think John Calvin based his belief on his own conversion?

I’m probably talking a load of rubbish, ..therefore he couldn’t possibly understand how other believers were converted?

When you think about how can anyone have exactly the same conversion as another?

 

[Johann]

Do you remember the article I sent you on Calvinism?

:)

I'm liberated brother-but should the spinning, twirling @GodsGrace read this I'm "off topic!"
Actually, no, I don't remember Barn'

J.

 

[Ritajanice]

Saved and born again is the same thing Ritajanice.
There's no difference between the two terms.

I disagree, we are not saved from eternal damnation, not until our spirit is Born Again, once that happens we are then saved from eternal damnation.

Born Again and saved from eternal damnation..that’s the context I have always believed.

Just as his word says.

Mark 16:16 - He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

I don’t understand “ saved” unless it’s in that context.

 

[BarneyFife]

Do you think John Calvin based his belief on his own conversion?

I’m probably talking a load of rubbish, ..therefore he couldn’t possibly understand how other believers were converted?

When you think about how can anyone have exactly the same conversion as another?

I think there's a definite difference between testimony and orthodoxy—a difference most folks are not willing to fully parse.

And I think Calvin was tormented by his own intellect, as many other theologians have been throughout history.

I also believe he was a good man, contrary to conventional wisdom regarding his faults.

:)

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

But you didn't reply to Calvin's statement about having the rug pulled from under some...

How could a reformed person be sure he is saved ?
It seems to me he won't be until the end comes.

Exactly the same as for every other Christian, BTW.

Assurance of salvation comes with our walking with and under God's rule along with the victories God gives us through Jesus' triumph.

 

[Johann]

Assurance of salvation comes with our walking with and under God's rule along with the victories God gives us through Jesus' triumph.

How about sharing some Scripture references, brother? And "God" sounds a bit impersonal.

How many wills are there in Reformed Theology and when asked a question you cannot make an appeal to mystery.

The Decretive Will (or Sovereign Will): This refers to God's eternal plan and purpose, which cannot be thwarted. Everything that happens in history occurs according to this will, even if humans don't understand it fully.

The Preceptive Will (or Revealed Will): This refers to God's moral will, as revealed in Scripture, which outlines how humans ought to live. Unlike the decretive will, this can be disobeyed (e.g., the Ten Commandments).

The Permissive Will: This reflects God's allowance of certain events, including evil or suffering, without directly causing them, yet still using them within His sovereign plan.

Now, Reformed theologians often appeal to mystery when the tension between these wills arises. However, when addressing questions like this, it’s important not to default to mystery but to provide clear Scriptural backing for each concept.

Correct?
J.

 

[GodsGrace]

I disagree, we are not saved from eternal damnation, not until our spirit is Born Again, once that happens we are then saved from eternal damnation.

Born Again and saved from eternal damnation..that’s the context I have always believed.

Just as his word says.

Mark 16:16 - He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

I don’t understand “ saved” unless it’s in that context.

If you believe you're saved.
If you believe you're born again.

Saved could be discussed...what are we saved from?
Born again is a condition...our spirit is joined with God's spirit.

Salvation has the word saved in it.
We are saved...we are born again, as Jesus commanded in John 3:5
YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN.

Born again in spirit.....not of flesh, we're born of flesh at our birth.
We're born again at our spiritual birth.
At that instant, we become saved.

Saved from the stronghold of satan.
saved from the evil morals of this world,
saved from an eternity without God.

 

[GodsGrace]

Assurance of salvation comes with our walking with and under God's rule along with the victories God gives us through Jesus' triumph.

Agreed.
Walking with God
Being under God's rule

do the above require action from us?
Is it our action? Libertarian free will....

 

[Ritajanice]

Saved could be discussed...what are we saved from?

Our spirit is saved from eternal damnation once our spirit is Born Again, we are also certainly saved from the wrath of God....he acknowledges us when we are Born Again.

We are in His Kingdom, we are His spirit children, His way is the only way we can go, we no longer belong to this world even though we’re in it....we belong to God and was bought for a price...his name is Jesus.....we worship and follow Him.

 

[GodsGrace]

I think there's a definite difference between testimony and orthodoxy—a difference most folks are not willing to fully parse.

And I think Calvin was tormented by his own intellect, as many other theologians have been throughout history.

I also believe he was a good man, contrary to conventional wisdom regarding his faults.

:)

Tormented by his own intellect....
RC Sproul wrote in one of his books that he was taken aback by what was being taught in the University ? he attended to learn theology.
It was Reformed of course, and he said that he went into it with his mind but not with his heart, sounded like he wasn't too happy about what it taught.

It does go against what man naturally expects from the creator that created him.
We pray He's benevolent and will give us the opportunity for salvation.

 

[Ritajanice]

Born again in spirit.....not of flesh, we're born of flesh at our birth.
We're born again at our spiritual birth.
At that instant, we become saved.

Yes!...Amen!

Wow we’re in agreement, Praise God!

 

[GodsGrace]

This is completely on topic, but it seems you might be a bit slow to catch on.
If you had taken the time to read the links, you would have noticed that I’m also against Reformed theology.
However, you're not giving me the opportunity to fully engage in the discussion.

J.

I responded to you...
I looked at the link.
It was to Leighton Flowers.
I agree with everything LF teaches.
Don't know what else to say.

 

[GodsGrace]

LOL
My thoughts are higher than your thoughts, my ways past finding out... (for you anyway)


Aha, that's where you went wrong.

Do you agree with Seventh Day Adventism?
Their beliefs are VERY biblical.
Few have gone as far as they have to provide a biblical religion.

It's not for me. In fact I argue against it.
But their position is as biblical as mine.

I suppose your head is really spinning now. - LOL

[

You won't be making my head spin SS.
If you believe the SDA are correct and their teaching is biblical,
I do hope that you worship on Saturday.