Daniel's Final "one week" of Daniel 9:27 Made Simple

[covenantee]

Using the word "after" in the above way is serious error.

That's good for a few guffaws.

"Using the word "after" in the Scriptural way is serious error".

Keep 'em coming.

 

[Davy]

That's good for a few guffaws.

"Using the word "after" in the Scriptural way is serious error".

Keep 'em coming.

Just implying... that he was using "after" in a so-called imagined "Scriptural way" is in itself another error.

 

[Phoneman777]

If you had read my post above you would have noticed that I referenced Daniel 9:26b. This is what this part verse prophecy tells us: -

Daniel 9:26b: -​

And the people of the prince who is to come​

Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.​

The end of it shall be with a flood,​

And till the end of the war desolations are determined. ​

Now, first of all, there are six independent prophecies found in Daniel 9:24-27 and these independent prophecies are as follows: -

First Prophecy is: - {Duration: - 490 years}

24 "Seventy weeks are determined​

For your people and for your holy city,​

To finish the transgression,​

To make an end of sins.​

​

Second Prophecy is: - {Duration: - three days}

​

{And then} to make reconciliation for iniquity,​

To bring in everlasting righteousness,​

To seal up vision and prophecy,​

And to anoint a scared place {as being} Holy. ​

​

Third Prophecy is: - {Duration: - 483 years}

25 "Know therefore and understand,​

That from the going forth of the command​

To restore and build Jerusalem​

Until Messiah the Prince,​

There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;​

The street shall be built again, and the wall, ​

Even in troublesome times. ​

​

Fourth Prophecy is: - {Duration: - three days, the same as the Second prophecy}

​

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks​

Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;​

Fifth Prophecy is: - {Duration: - 2,000 years}

And the people of the prince who is to come​

Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.​

The end of it shall be with a flood,​

And till the end of the war desolations are determined. ​

​

Sixth Prophecy is: - {Duration: - seven years}

​

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;​

But in the middle of the week​

He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.​

And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,​

Even until the consummation, which is determined,​

Is poured out on the desolator."​

Now the fifth prophecy spanned from 66 AD until 73 AD and Wikipedia records this event in this manner: -

​

The siege of Jerusalem of 70 CE was the decisive event of the First Jewish–Roman War (66–73 CE), in which the Roman army led by future emperor Titus besieged Jerusalem, the centre of Jewish rebel resistance in the Roman province of Judaea. Following a five-month siege, the Romans destroyed the city, including the Second Jewish Temple.​

​

. . . . . .​

​

On Tisha B'Av, 70 CE (August 30),[8] Roman forces overwhelmed the defenders and set fire to the Temple. Resistance continued for another month, but eventually the upper and lower parts of the city were taken as well, and the city was burned to the ground.​

Now the last line of the of the fifth independent prophecy tells us this: -

And till the end of the war desolations are determined​

Now since Jerusalem and the surround country has been left desolated up and until this present time period, we can only conclude that there is a period of some 2,000 years between when Jerusalem was sacked in 70 AD and this present time period. The question is what war was being referenced by Daniel when he used the words, "till the end of the war"?

I would suggest that the war was in heaven and that it will end in around 20 years' time when Isaiah 24:21-22 is fulfilled.

Isaiah 24:21-22 tells us that the judged Heavenly hosts and the kings of the earth will be imprisoned for many days to await the time of their punishment. In the Book of Revelation, we are also told that the time period of this imprisonment will be for 1,000 years.

Your claim that 'You can't fit a "2000" or "1000" year "gap" in a prophecy that's numerically specified to be only 490 years.' is a man-made constraint which does not fit the historical record of the associated events.

Goodbye

Wrong. The "six" are not "additional prophecies" - they are "six reasons" for why the 70 Weeks are determined (Hebrew: "chatak" aka "amputated") from the 2300, and are centered around Christ's 1st Advent mission:

"70 Weeks are determined (aka "chatak" aka "amputated"):
1. to finish the transgression (the Jewish refusal to prepare the world for the coming Messiah)
2. and make and end of sins (by taking it away from them and giving it to the Gentiles)
3. to make reconciliation for iniquity (to die for the sins of the world)
4. and to bring in everlasting righteousness (in the lives of those who believe He died for them)
5. to seal up the vision/prophecy ("seal up" or "guarantee" the 2300 will fulfill as surely as the 70 will be)
6. to anoint the Most Holy." (the "Most Holy" in the Jordan -or- the "Most Holy place" in heaven)

The 70 Weeks is not an "Event Specific Prophecy" with six different prophetic timetables - it is a "Numerically Specific Duration Prophecy" that lasts 70 weeks (457 B.C. to 34 A.D.) that contains six reasons for why the numerically specific duration of "70 Weeks" are cut off from the "2300 Days" of the previous prophecy which Gabriel had to come and explain to Daniel and used the 70 Weeks to explain it.

 

[Phoneman777]

Using the word "after" in the above way is serious error.

The meaning in Daniel 9 is at the completion of the 69th week is when Christ being cut off was represented. After the 69th week, Jesus' Ministry had nothing to do with those events that happened afterwards.

Read with me:

From the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem (457 B.C.)

...unto messiah the prince..." ("anointing of the Prince of Peace" in the Jordan)

Archaeological evidence proves the only year Tiberius, Pilate, and Augustus reigned simultaneously was 27 A.D. - exactly 69 Weeks from the Ezra 7 decree of Artaxerxes in 457 B.C. - the very year Luke 3 says Jesus was baptized.

Understand? The 69th Week ended and the 70th Week began when Jesus was baptized and walked out of the Jordan to start His public ministry.

 

[Davy]

Lol, you have v26 contradicting v25. Not wise.

V 25 states that 7 and 62 weeks have to pass until Messiah.

25 So you are to know and understand that from the issuance of the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until [the coming of] the Messiah (the Anointed One), the Prince, there will be seven weeks [of years] and sixty-two weeks [of years];

How then can he be cut off before he arrives?
Ridiculous.

I must have missed responding to the above.

Your premise above is ludicrous simply because Daniel 9:26 is covering the subject of the 'prince' that would destroy the city and the sanctuary, pointing to the Romans in 70 A.D. that destroyed Jerusalem and the 2nd temple.

That is where you are placing Jesus' Ministry with your false suggestion of the 70th week being fulfilled then, during that desolation period by the Romans! Thinking that isn't very wise, and it shows you are determined to push an agenda of man that you learned somewhere, and is not Biblical.

 

[David in NJ]

Just implying... that he was using "after" in a so-called imagined "Scriptural way" is in itself another error.

Good Morning

The scripture says "AFTER" = not me Davy

You can look it up in Strong's

SHALOM

 

[jeffweeder]

I must have missed responding to the above.

Your premise above is ludicrous simply because Daniel 9:26 is covering the subject of the 'prince' that would destroy the city and the sanctuary, pointing to the Romans in 70 A.D. that destroyed Jerusalem and the 2nd temple.

That is where you are placing Jesus' Ministry with your false suggestion of the 70th week being fulfilled then, during that desolation period by the Romans! Thinking that isn't very wise, and it shows you are determined to push an agenda of man that you learned somewhere, and is not Biblical.

We all know Jesus ministry was 40 years Before 70AD.
He was cut off 3 1/2 years after the 7 and 62 weeks ended. Thats 3 1/2 years into the 70th week.

jeffweeder said:
Lol, you have v26 contradicting v25. Not wise.

V 25 states that 7 and 62 weeks must pass until Messiah.

25 So you are to know and understand that from the issuance of the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until [the coming of] the Messiah (the Anointed One), the Prince, there will be seven weeks [of years] and sixty-two weeks [of years];

How then can he be cut off before he arrives?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Using the word "after" in the above way is serious error.

The meaning in Daniel 9 is at the completion of the 69th week is when Christ being cut off was represented. After the 69th week, Jesus' Ministry had nothing to do with those events that happened afterwards.

What in the world is this nonsense? You are blatantly twisting God's word to fit your doctrine.

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

The word "after" doesn't mean "at the completion of". Since when does the word "after" ever mean "at the completion of" instead of sometime after something is completed? You are making up a definition for the word after that doesn't exist. What comes after 69? 70. Hello? Wake up. That puts Jesus's death within the 70th week. The dishonest way that you interpret this scripture is shameful.

If I said to you that I was going to eat dinner after I get done with work would you try to say that means I would be eating my dinner at the completion of my work or some time after I'm done working?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Good Morning

The scripture says "AFTER" = not me Davy

You can look it up in Strong's

SHALOM

This is what people do when their doctrine has been refuted. They dishonestly make up their own definitions for words in an effort to keep their false doctrine afloat . This is the same kind of thing that Douggg does with the word "generation" in Matthew 24:34 by defining it as the human life span even though that is not one of the definitions for that word. I can't believe how dishonestly some people treat scripture like this. Do they have no conscience?

 

[Jay Ross]

Wrong. The "six" are not "additional prophecies" - they are "six reasons" for why the 70 Weeks are determined (Hebrew: "chatak" aka "amputated") from the 2300, and are centered around Christ's 1st Advent mission:

"70 Weeks are determined (aka "chatak" aka "amputated"):
1. to finish the transgression (the Jewish refusal to prepare the world for the coming Messiah)
2. and make and end of sins (by taking it away from them and giving it to the Gentiles)
3. to make reconciliation for iniquity (to die for the sins of the world)
4. and to bring in everlasting righteousness (in the lives of those who believe He died for them)
5. to seal up the vision/prophecy ("seal up" or "guarantee" the 2300 will fulfill as surely as the 70 will be)
6. to anoint the Most Holy." (the "Most Holy" in the Jordan -or- the "Most Holy place" in heaven)

The 70 Weeks is not an "Event Specific Prophecy" with six different prophetic timetables - it is a "Numerically Specific Duration Prophecy" that lasts 70 weeks (457 B.C. to 34 A.D.) that contains six reasons for why the numerically specific duration of "70 Weeks" are cut off from the "2300 Days" of the previous prophecy which Gabriel had to come and explain to Daniel and used the 70 Weeks to explain it.

I have no issue with you disagreeing with what I had posted on Sept 9th.

But I will make the following bold claims that in around 20 years' time, there will be some prophecies that will conclude as well as a number of prophecies that will start. Here is my list of events

1. The prophecy embedded in Exodus 20:4-6 ends at the end of the sixth age which co-insides with the conclusion of the fourth age of the existence of Isael.
2. The prophecy in Daniel 8:13-14 concerning the giving of God's Sanctuary and His earthly Hosts to be trampled for 2,300 years comes to its conclusion.
3. The gathering of the kings of the earth to Armageddon to be judged for their part in the Daniel 8:9-14 in being the armies that the Little Horn used to trample God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts.
4. While God is judging the kings of the earth at Armageddon, He will also judge the heavenly hosts in heaven and gather them together with the judged kings of the earth and imprison them for many years in a pit to await the time of their final punishment. Isaiah 24:21-22.
5. God begins gathering the nation of Israel once more to Himself, where they are living scattered throughout the whole earth, to redeem them and to cleanse them and to renew the Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His Possession among the Nations Covenant which they had rebelled against at Mt Sinai.
6. During the time of the kings of the fifth segment of the Daniel 2 prophecy a rock will come down out of heaven which will become the greatest mountain/religion in all the earth and at the same time God will establish His Everlasting Kingdom which shall never ever be destroyed. Daniel 2:34-35, 44-45.
7. After the judgement of the heavenly hosts in heaven, God will then give the Son of Man dominion over all the peoples of the earth such that they should worship Him and an established kingdom. Daniel 7:13-14.

The above list of events will all occur soon and will be observable such that we can conclude that the last age, i.e. the seventh age, has begun. Jesus in Matthew 24:32 also indicated when the seventh age would begin with the signpost which will herald the starting point for his prophecy being the rebirthing of the nation of Israel in 1948 AD and the flexible time period between the early spring when the leaves of the Fig tree will bud and when the summer season of harvest would begin.

Shalom

 

[David in NJ]

This is what people do when their doctrine has been refuted. They dishonestly make up their own definitions for words in an effort to keep their false doctrine afloat . This is the same kind of thing that Douggg does with the word "generation" in Matthew 24:34 by defining it as the human life span even though that is not one of the definitions for that word. I can't believe how dishonestly some people treat scripture like this. Do they have no conscience?

Do they have no conscience?

There is a serious lack of the 'fear of God'.
This lack is generated by "seeking honor from men rather then seeking honor from God"

Each of us must give an account for every word we have spoken!

That is why i make sure i NEVER add or take away from God's words.
AND
If, and when i slip up and someone clearly shows my error, then i receive it, ask God for forgiveness and then Rejoice that i was 'rebuked' in the Holy Spirit.

Proverbs 9:8-9
Do not rebuke a mocker, or he will hate you; rebuke a wise man, and he will love you.
Instruct a wise man, and he will be wiser still; teach a righteous man, and he will increase his learning.

It is their choice who they wish to become.

 

[CTK]

I have no issue with you disagreeing with what I had posted on Sept 9th.

But I will make the following bold claims that in around 20 years' time, there will be some prophecies that will conclude as well as a number of prophecies that will start. Here is my list of events

1. The prophecy embedded in Exodus 20:4-6 ends at the end of the sixth age which co-insides with the conclusion of the fourth age of the existence of Isael.
2. The prophecy in Daniel 8:13-14 concerning the giving of God's Sanctuary and His earthly Hosts to be trampled for 2,300 years comes to its conclusion.

Jay, there is alot here within your response and I would like to discuss just one of your comments for the time being. If you do not mind, can you please tell me the following:

1) Specifically, what does verse 8:14 speak to? What is going to be accomplished according to these words?

2) Why do you think the 2300 evenings and mornings phrase should be converted to literal years? What tells you that in this verse?

Thanks so much.

1. The gathering of the kings of the earth to Armageddon to be judged for their part in the Daniel 8:9-14 in being the armies that the Little Horn used to trample God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts.
2. While God is judging the kings of the earth at Armageddon, He will also judge the heavenly hosts in heaven and gather them together with the judged kings of the earth and imprison them for many years in a pit to await the time of their final punishment. Isaiah 24:21-22.
3. God begins gathering the nation of Israel once more to Himself, where they are living scattered throughout the whole earth, to redeem them and to cleanse them and to renew the Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His Possession among the Nations Covenant which they had rebelled against at Mt Sinai.
4. During the time of the kings of the fifth segment of the Daniel 2 prophecy a rock will come down out of heaven which will become the greatest mountain/religion in all the earth and at the same time God will establish His Everlasting Kingdom which shall never ever be destroyed. Daniel 2:34-35, 44-45.
5. After the judgement of the heavenly hosts in heaven, God will then give the Son of Man dominion over all the peoples of the earth such that they should worship Him and an established kingdom. Daniel 7:13-14.

The above list of events will all occur soon and will be observable such that we can conclude that the last age, i.e. the seventh age, has begun. Jesus in Matthew 24:32 also indicated when the seventh age would begin with the signpost which will herald the starting point for his prophecy being the rebirthing of the nation of Israel in 1948 AD and the flexible time period between the early spring when the leaves of the Fig tree will bud and when the summer season of harvest would begin.

Shalom

 

[Davy]

Good Morning

The scripture says "AFTER" = not me Davy

You can look it up in Strong's

SHALOM

Still does not mean Christ's Ministry continued into the 70th week like your are wrongly claiming. You need to leave that dead horse, you've already beat it to death.

 

[Davy]

He was cut off 3 1/2 years after the 7 and 62 weeks ended. Thats 3 1/2 years into the 70th week.

That certainly is a bogus speculation, not written.

The symbolic "one week" of Daniel 9:27, which represents a period of 7 years, is for the very end... of this world, not back at the time of Jesus' 1st coming.

This is why that final "one week" of events are given in verse 27, after... the 26th verse about the "prince" (Roman general Titus in 70A.D.) that would come and destroy the city and sanctuary.

1. Dan.9:26 - covers the time of 70 A.D. when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the temple. Did not occur during Christ's Ministry.
2. Dan.9:27 - occurs after... the events of 70 A.D., and definitely NOT during Christ's Ministry.

Thus it should be obvious that the final 70th "one week" is for the end of this world, and impossible to have been at the time of Christ's Ministry.

 

[jeffweeder]

Thus it should be obvious that the final 70th "one week" is for the end of this world, and impossible to have been at the time of Christ's Ministry.

The 70 weeks are all about redemption and impossible to be fulfilled without Jesus' anointing and ministry.

24 “Seventy weeks [of years, or 490 years] have been decreed for your people and for your holy city (Jerusalem),
to finish the transgression,
to make an end of sins,
to make atonement (reconciliation) for wickedness,
to bring in everlasting righteousness (right-standing with God),
to seal up vision and prophecy and prophet, and
to anoint the Most Holy Place.

Nothing about the end of this world.
Will Jesus deal with sin when he comes a second time at the end of the age?

Heb 9
He has appeared and been publicly manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
27 And just as it is appointed and destined for all men to die once and after this [comes certain] judgment, 28 so Christ, having been offered once and once for all to bear [as a burden] the sins of many, will appear a second time [when he returns to earth], not to deal with sin, but to bring salvation to those who are eagerly and confidently waiting for Him.

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay, there is a lot here within your response and I would like to discuss just one of your comments for the time being. If you do not mind, can you please tell me the following:

1) Specifically, what does verse 8:14 speak to? What is going to be accomplished according to these words?

2) Why do you think the 2300 evenings and mornings phrase should be converted to literal years? What tells you that in this verse?

Thanks so much.

History tells me that the trampling of God's earthly hosts has not yet run its full course as can be seen in the present Gaza/Hamas/Israeli exchanges and also the Lebanon/Hezbollah/Israeli exchanges.

The start of the 2,300 years of the Little Horn trampling God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts began sometime around the year 250 BC because of Israel's continual Idolatrous behaviour that has continued up and until this present time over some 2280 years. This prophecy still has in my humble opinion another 20 years for it to run to its completion.

The trampling of Israel and the temple sanctuary began around 70 years after the death of Alexandra the great.

Now if you want to know what God planned to do, we need to consider Lev 26 and Deu 28 as this outlines God's plan to draw Israel back to Himself.

In my study of the chronology oof the Old Testament, I found that I could not fit it into Ussher's 4,004 years that he attempted to force his chronology into. I found that I needed another 96 years in the chronology of the Old Testament. When I did this, I found that my chronology of the whole scriptures began to make sense, and the numbers all began to fall into place.

If the Daniel 8:14 was to define the extent of time as days only then the trampling of God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts would have been limited to just the 2,300 days but the trampling of God's earthly hosts has continued right up and until this present time period.

It is for this reason that I believe that the day for a year rule also applied to the Daniel 8:14 verse.

I hope this helps.


Shalom

 

[CTK]

History tells me that the trampling of God's earthly hosts has not yet run its full course as can be seen in the present Gaza/Hamas/Israeli exchanges and also the Lebanon/Hezbollah/Israeli exchanges.

The start of the 2,300 years of the Little Horn trampling God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts began sometime around the year 250 BC because of Israel's continual Idolatrous behaviour that has continued up and until this present time over some 2280 years. This prophecy still has in my humble opinion another 20 years for it to run to its completion.

The trampling of Israel and the temple sanctuary began around 70 years after the death of Alexandra the great.

Now if you want to know what God planned to do, we need to consider Lev 26 and Deu 28 as this outlines God's plan to draw Israel back to Himself.

In my study of the chronology oof the Old Testament, I found that I could not fit it into Ussher's 4,004 years that he attempted to force his chronology into. I found that I needed another 96 years in the chronology of the Old Testament. When I did this, I found that my chronology of the whole scriptures began to make sense, and the numbers all began to fall into place.

If the Daniel 8:14 was to define the extent of time as days only then the trampling of God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts would have been limited to just the 2,300 days but the trampling of God's earthly hosts has continued right up and until this present time period.

It is for this reason that I believe that the day for a year rule also applied to the Daniel 8:14 verse.

I hope this helps.


Shalom

Thank you for your thoughts!
For me, I believe 8:14 tells us that the “sanctuary will be cleansed in 2300 days.”

So, how can the sanctuary be cleansed? Before the cross, it would be cleansed by the sacrificial blood of the lamb being sprinkled on the Ark or the veil in the sanctuary.

But this would be replaced by the blood of Jesus- God’s perfect sacrifice on the cross. The Passover ceremony was a type and shadow of the sacrifice of the coming Messiah.

So, do you agree with that? Thanks.

 

[David in NJ]

Still does not mean Christ's Ministry continued into the 70th week like your are wrongly claiming. You need to leave that dead horse, you've already beat it to death.

Actually, it is a Eternal Horse that i will be Riding soon if the LORD takes me Home before His Second Coming = Rev ch19

 

[covenantee]

That certainly is a bogus speculation, not written.

The symbolic "one week" of Daniel 9:27, which represents a period of 7 years, is for the very end... of this world, not back at the time of Jesus' 1st coming.

This is why that final "one week" of events are given in verse 27, after... the 26th verse about the "prince" (Roman general Titus in 70A.D.) that would come and destroy the city and sanctuary.

1. Dan.9:26 - covers the time of 70 A.D. when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the temple. Did not occur during Christ's Ministry.
2. Dan.9:27 - occurs after... the events of 70 A.D., and definitely NOT during Christ's Ministry.

Thus it should be obvious that the final 70th "one week" is for the end of this world, and impossible to have been at the time of Christ's Ministry.

Still desperately clinging to your illusory decapitated orphaned indeterminate 70th week, eh?

 

[Jay Ross]

Thank you for your thoughts!
For me, I believe 8:14 tells us that the “sanctuary will be cleansed in 2300 days.”

So, how can the sanctuary be cleansed? Before the cross, it would be cleansed by the sacrificial blood of the lamb being sprinkled on the Ark or the veil in the sanctuary.

But this would be replaced by the blood of Jesus- God’s perfect sacrifice on the cross. The Passover ceremony was a type and shadow of the sacrifice of the coming Messiah.

So, do you agree with that? Thanks.

As the Daniel 8:9-14 prophecy is focused upon the events around and upon the nation of Israel, then since the location of God's building blocks for the temple is found within His Saints, it is the cleansing of the hearts of the Saints that must take place and that is our responsibility as we live in Christ's love. God's nourishment of the Saints is only effective when the Saints send their roots down into His fertile soil/field and that takes our full attention and endurance to abide in His Love as we live in His Love.

In the Book of Revelation, we are told that after the Final Judgement that God's Temple comes down out of heaven and that God then abides upon the Earth with His Saints worshipping Him. When Christ Sounds the Alarm, all of the saints will gather to form His Temple, and in that temple, we will worship God in all of His glory.

How long it takes the Saints to cleanse the temple of their own body is a mystery as some achieve the cleansing of their body instantly while with others their cleansing is a slow process and occurs over an extended period of time.

God requires us to focus on ourselves and if we cleanse ourselves through our relationship with Christ, then the whole Temple will also be cleansed within the big picture of God's purposes for all of mankind.

Shalom