The time, times, and a half does not include the season and time, which is the thousand years.

[Spiritual Israelite]

The seventh angel did not make a sound before the two witnesses ascend to heaven.
What are you doing,trying to rewrite revelation 11?

This is when the seventh angel makes his sound.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdom of this world are become the kingdom of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

You're not recognizing that Revelation 11 is not all meant to be interpreted in chronological order from beginning to end. Revelation 11:14 picks up where Revelation 9:21 left off because the second woe, which is the sixth trumpet, is described in Revelation 9:13-21 and not in Revelation 10 or in Revelation 11:1-13 which are both parenthetical passages and not a continuation from the end of Revelation 9. The seventh trumpet is mentioned in Revelation 10, so why can't you see that the text in Revelation 9-11 is not all in chronological order? If you try to interpret all or even most of the book of Revelation in chronological order, it results in an interpretation that makes no sense.

The inability of premils to recognize the parallels in the book of Revelation is the biggest reason that they misinterpret much of it. A literal, chronological approach to the book does not work.

 

[tailgator]

You're not recognizing that Revelation 11 is not all meant to be interpreted in chronological order from beginning to end. Revelation 11:14 picks up where Revelation 9:21 left off because the second woe, which is the sixth trumpet, is described in Revelation 9:13-21 and not in Revelation 10 or in Revelation 11:1-13 which are both parenthetical passages and not a continuation from the end of Revelation 9. The seventh trumpet is mentioned in Revelation 10, so why can't you see that the text in Revelation 9-11 is not all in chronological order? If you try to interpret all or even most of the book of Revelation in chronological order, it results in an interpretation that makes no sense.

The inability of premils to recognize the parallels in the book of Revelation is the biggest reason that they misinterpret much of it. A literal, chronological approach to the book does not work.

There's no need to rewrite revelation in your image.

The seventh angel does not make a sound before this.


Revelation 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

There's no need to rewrite revelation in your image.

The seventh angel does not make a sound before this.


Revelation 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

You need to actually read it before trying to tell me what to do.

Revelation 10:7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.”for once before trying to tell me what to do.

If that isn't a reference to the seventh trumpet, then what is it?

Do you try to claim that Revelation 10 is part of the description of the sixth trumpet, too? Your literal, chronological approach to interpreting Revelation is the wrong one and leads to all kinds of false interpretations. You clearly have no clue as to the format of the book.

 

[tailgator]

You need to actually read it before trying to tell me what to do.

Revelation 10:7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.”for once before trying to tell me what to do.

If that isn't a reference to the seventh trumpet, then what is it?

Do you try to claim that Revelation 10 is part of the description of the sixth trumpet, too? Your literal, chronological approach to interpreting Revelation is the wrong one and leads to all kinds of false interpretations. You clearly have no clue as to the format of the book.

I am reading the text.
The seventh angel was not begining to sound when the two witnesses leave.They are already removed from the kingdom before he begins.




Revelation 10:7
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.



In a moment,in the twinkling of an eye at that last trump does not mean after the 6th Trump or before the last trump.
The trumpet sounds and the dead in Christ rise first..
There is something wrong with the two witnesses rising before the trumpet sounds.


1 Corinthians 15:52

in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed


Now are you calling Paul a lier,?
You saying Paul's prophecy is wrong and Paul should have written we are changed before the trumpet will sound?

What
What?

You disagreeing with Paul?

 

[tailgator]

You need to actually read it before trying to tell me what to do.

Revelation 10:7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.”for once before trying to tell me what to do.

If that isn't a reference to the seventh trumpet, then what is it?

Do you try to claim that Revelation 10 is part of the description of the sixth trumpet, too? Your literal, chronological approach to interpreting Revelation is the wrong one and leads to all kinds of false interpretations. You clearly have no clue as to the format of the book.

And here I thought Paul was your hero and you are saying Paul is wrong.

1 Corinthians 15:52

in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed

 

[Davidpt]

You need to actually read it before trying to tell me what to do.

Revelation 10:7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.”for once before trying to tell me what to do.

If that isn't a reference to the seventh trumpet, then what is it?

Do you try to claim that Revelation 10 is part of the description of the sixth trumpet, too? Your literal, chronological approach to interpreting Revelation is the wrong one and leads to all kinds of false interpretations. You clearly have no clue as to the format of the book.

Come on, be real here. How does it make sense that after the 2Ws rise followed by an earthquake that same hour, and then John telling us the 2nd woe is past, that this rising of the 2ws nor the earthquake that same hour, that it isn't meaning during the 2nd woe, it is meaning during the 3rd woe?


Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Revelation 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.


You would have us believe that verses 11-13 are meaning after the 2nd woe is past rather than before it is past. Like such, above?

Revelation 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

You have this meaning after Christ has returned during the 7th trumpet, and that you argue there are no unsaved survivors during the 2nd coming, when verse 13 is clearly showing unsaved survivors--and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. The remnant of who? The saved? How could it be the remnant of the saved if you have all of the saved up in the clouds with Jesus when Revelation 11:13 is meaning, since you insist the era of time is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17? And the fact this remnant is giving God the glory, God is still going to destroy them, regardless? Is that what we are to believe? And I'm the one that's never logical about anything?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I am reading the text.
The seventh angel was not begining to sound when the two witnesses leave.They are already removed from the kingdom before he begins.




Revelation 10:7
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.



In a moment,in the twinkling of an eye at that last trump does not mean after the 6th Trump or before the last trump.
The trumpet sounds and the dead in Christ rise first..
There is something wrong with the two witnesses rising before the trumpet sounds.


1 Corinthians 15:52

in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed


Now are you calling Paul a lier,?
You saying Paul's prophecy is wrong and Paul should have written we are changed before the trumpet will sound?

What
What?

You disagreeing with Paul?

What are you babbling about? Are you unable to communicate coherently? I said absolutely nothing about disagreeing with Paul. Where are you coming up with that nonsense? And, why are you using Paul to back up your view, anyway? You don't believe you can trust Paul. I showed you how 1 Cor 15:22-23 indicates that all of the dead in Christ are resurrected at the same time and that the order of resurrection was Christ's first and all those who belong to Christ at His second coming next and you denied it all and acted like Paul didn't have the full revelation of Bible prophecy and didn't know what he was talking about. Ever since then I knew you were a fraud and no one can take anything you say seriously.

 

[tailgator]

What are you babbling about? Are you unable to communicate coherently? I said absolutely nothing about disagreeing with Paul. Where are you coming up with that nonsense? And, why are you using Paul to back up your view, anyway? You don't believe you can trust Paul. I showed you how 1 Cor 15:22-23 indicates that all of the dead in Christ are resurrected at the same time and that the order of resurrection was Christ's first and all those who belong to Christ at His second coming next and you denied it all and acted like Paul didn't have the full revelation of Bible prophecy and didn't know what he was talking about. Ever since then I knew you were a fraud and no one can take anything you say seriously.

Yes you said the dead are raised before the trumpet sounds.

Now who is wrong,you or Paul?


1 Corinthians 15:52

in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed



What are you going to blabber about now blabber boy?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Come on, be real here.

I'm being very real here. Your literal, chronological approach to interpreting the book of Revelation doesn't work. You conveniently see some parallels between the seals and trumpets, but then somehow can't see that when it comes to the vials. There's no consistency in your approach to interpreting the book whatsoever.

How does it make sense that after the 2Ws rise followed by an earthquake that same hour, and then John telling us the 2nd woe is past, that this rising of the 2ws nor the earthquake that same hour, that it isn't meaning during the 2nd woe, it is meaning during the 3rd woe?

It makes complete sense to me that both Revelation 10 and Revelation 11:1-13 are parenthetical passages. The sixth trumpet is the second woe. You understand that, right? Well, the sixth trumpet is described in Revelation 9:13-21. How do you figure that Revelation 11:1 picks up where Revelation 9:21 left off instead of Revelation 11:14 when we know that Revelation 9:13-21 specifically describes the event related to the sixth trumpet? The two witnesses symbolically represent the witness of the church during the NT time period, so there's no way that Revelation 11:1 is part of the description of the sixth trumpet. You can never convince me of that, so don't bother trying.

Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Revelation 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.


You would have us believe that verses 11-13 are meaning after the 2nd woe is past rather than before it is past.

Yes, that is correct. Because Revelation is not just chronological from beginning to end. I know you understand that, so why are you so insistent on all of Revelation 11 being chronological from beginning to end? Does what is described in Revelation 12 follow what is described at the end of Revelation 11? No, right? So, clearly, it's not all chronological. It goes back and forth in time in the book.

Revelation 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

You have this meaning after Christ has returned during the 7th trumpet, and that you argue there are no unsaved survivors during the 2nd coming, when verse 13 is clearly showing unsaved survivors--and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

You continually miss the symbolism in the book of Revelation and this is no exception. You continually interpret symbolic things literally and literal things symbolically. The number 7 is used to symbolically reference perfection and completeness. The word thousand represent a large, indefinite number. So, when it talks about seven thousand people being destroyed, it's referring to all unbelievers.

The remnant of who? The saved?

Yes, of course! You think the unsaved would give glory to God? Read the text more carefully.

How could it be the remnant of the saved if you have all of the saved up in the clouds with Jesus when Revelation 11:13 is meaning, since you insist the era of time is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17? And I'm the one that's never logical about anything?

You think it's logical to conclude that the unsaved will give glory to God at that point?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes you said the dead are raised before the trumpet sounds.

Now who is wrong,you or Paul?


1 Corinthians 15:52

in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed

I did not say that. Stop lying. I've always said they are raised when the last trumpet sounds and that Jesus returns when the last trumpet sounds. So, the timing of 1 Cor 15:22-23 and 1 Cor 15:50-54 is the same.

 

[tailgator]

I did not say that. Stop lying. I've always said they are raised when the last trumpet sounds and that Jesus returns when the last trumpet sounds. So, the timing of 1 Cor 15:22-23 and 1 Cor 15:50-54 is the same.

Well,the two witnesses ascend into heaven before the trumpet sounds.
They are already removed from the kingdom of this world before it becomes Christs.

Now,without completely rewriting the text as blabber would .Here is the text as it is written.


Revelation 11
12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.

13 At that very hour there was a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the survivors were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 The second woe has passed; the third woe is coming soon.

15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:

“The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever.”

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Well,the two witnesses ascend into heaven before the trumpet sounds.
They are already removed from the kingdom of this world before it becomes Christs.

Now,without completely rewriting the text as blabber would .Here is the text as it is written.


Revelation 11
12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.

13 At that very hour there was a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the survivors were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 The second woe has passed; the third woe is coming soon.

15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:

“The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever.”

The sixth trumpet is the second woe. That is described in Revelation 9:13-21. If you insist on not recognizing that not all of Revelation is in chronological order then you will continue to misinterpret it. Tell me, do you think that what is described in Revelation 12 chronologically follows what is described in Revelation 11:15-19 (the seventh trumpet)?

 

[tailgator]

The sixth trumpet is the second woe. That is described in Revelation 9:13-21. If you insist on not recognizing that not all of Revelation is in chronological order then you will continue to misinterpret it. Tell me, do you think that what is described in Revelation 12 chronologically follows what is described in Revelation 11:15-19 (the seventh trumpet)?

Blabber blabber blabber
Why do you keep blabbering

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Blabber blabber blabber
Why do you keep blabbering

LOL. Did I touch a nerve by calling your nonsense "babbling"? At least I don't falsely represent your view like you do mine, such as when you said "Yes you said the dead are raised before the trumpet sounds.". I never said anything close to that. So, which is it? Do you have terrible reading comprehension skills or are you a liar?

 

[tailgator]

LOL. Did I touch a nerve by calling your nonsense "babbling"? At least I don't falsely represent your view like you do mine, such as when you said "Yes you said the dead are raised before the trumpet sounds.". I never said anything close to that. So, which is it? Do you have terrible reading comprehension skills or are you a liar?

Blabber blabber blabber
That is all you do.Post after post of nonsense blabber.You don't have an ounce of common sense.

Revelation 11
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Except 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 involves the sounding of a trumpet. Where do you see the sounding of a trumpet taking place when the 2Ws rise and ascend into heaven? Don't they do that before the 7th trumpet sounds rather than when the 7th trumpet sounds?

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God : and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Revelation 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The 7th trumpet is obviously the 3rd woe. When the 2Ws rise and ascend to heaven, they do that during the 2nd woe not the 3rd woe. Therefore, this event couldn't possibly be meaning 1 Corinthians 4:13-17. The last trump is not during the 2nd woe, it is during the 3rd woe. There is no trumpet sounding towards the end of the 2nd woe. But even if there was it would not be the last trump, though. The last trump is the 7th trumpet.

It’s shown in the 7th angel sounding…
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[tailgator]

It’s shown in the 7th angel sounding…
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The two witnesses are removed from the kingdom before the seventh Trump sounds.Before Jerusalem is secured.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

The two witnesses are removed from the kingdom before the seventh Trump sounds.Before Jerusalem is secured.

It does say the dead in Christ rise first….

with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God : and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[tailgator]

It does say the dead in Christ rise first….

with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God : and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

So why do you suppose the two witnesses are removed from Jerusalem when the Lord and the saints arrive to Jerusalem,?

Zechariah 14:5
And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.


Seems like an odd time to leave as the Lord arrives to his destination..They are removed from Jerusalem before Christ recieves the kingdom of this world.The same Jerusalem that is secured when Christ comes.


Zech 14:11
And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

So why do you suppose the two witnesses are removed from Jerusalem when the Lord and the saints arrive to Jerusalem,?

The marriage supper of the Lamb happens first in heaven until the indignation and fiery wrath of God is complete on earth. Then a tenth part of the saints return to dwell in Jerusalem, the rest outside Jerusalem.

Revelation 11:13

King James Version

​

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Revelation 19:7-9​

King James Version​

​

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.”

Isaiah 6:11-13​

King James Version​

​

11 Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,
12 And the Lord have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.
13 But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof.”