Justified by Works

[GracePeace]

Nope, stop infracting the law in oyur mind

LOL Infracting the Law of my mind would be if I was saying something I didn't believe in! You haven't understood anything I've said have you? First you say I said we were both "under Grace" and "under Law", now you're revealing you don't understand what I mean by my argument from Romans 14. I guess "you can't win them all"--some people just are contrarians.

 

[GracePeace]

You see, you cannot accept the bible as one cohesive whole, bye

Actually, that's exactly what I am doing when I say the guy had faith because he was forgiven based on Romans 4:6-8... so, again, another empty claim.

 

[GracePeace]

You read lireralistically what you want to read, you will never understand the bible that way:

In other words, "The only way to make the Bible make sense is to arbitrarily not take Christ seriously when He says this thing over here, but to arbitrarily decide to take Christ seriously over here! I call my theology cherry pie: I cherry-pick through the Bible parts I like and discard parts I don't like, and I make my theological pie out of my cherry picked truths!"

 

[Johann]

What i write next is a general reminder to us all .
I noticed you brought up a word . Convienient theology . HECK they been doing that for years and decades my friend .
Its a matter of what they make the bible say in order to FIT what they DESIRE .
a matter of what is CONVENIENT for them and a changing world . Many DO THIS my friend .
i have seen it for years . For years .
I truly wish folks would just read the bible for themselves and learn and grow .
Men have taught many of their own precepts as though they are the doctrine of GOD .
JESUS once warned about that too .
They worship GOD in vain , teaching the precepts of men . i seen this a lot my friend .
its why we got this two gospel junk stuff , this paul verses james stuff , and many other things they do and teach .
Coveinent theology . the theology that suits and pleases men , BUT NOT GOD .
Its time the church embraces the WORD and words inspired of GOD in that bible for themselves
and start loving them words and stop loving the words of men that twist things .

Brother, it seems you have a tendency to judge others for their approach to Scripture. Some here, like the Bereans in Acts 17:11, study diligently to show themselves approved, seeking to rightly divide the Word of Truth as instructed in 2 Timothy 2:15. The challenge arises when you view your method as the only valid one, while others may be content to focus on the words of Christ in the Gospels or are striving to understand the depth of the Pauline epistles.

Jesus taught in Matthew 7:3-5 about the importance of recognizing the plank in our own eye before pointing out the speck in someone else's. As I continue to study, I find that the more I learn, the more I realize my shortcomings in my walk with my Abba, echoing Philippians 3:12, where Paul expresses that he has not yet attained perfection.

Isn't it time for us to focus on preaching the gospel, as Paul exhorts in 1 Corinthians 1:17, and allow one another the grace to read and interpret the Scriptures for ourselves? Let’s utilize every available resource to dig deeper into His Word and seek a closer relationship with Jesus, as encouraged in James 4:8, where we are called to draw near to God.


J.

 

[amigo de christo]

You can't quote me saying believers are both "under grace" and "under law"--I don't believe that, and I reject that idea--so it didn't happen. Don't falsely accuse me.

i have a general reminder for us all .
The problem is that many within christendom are following another jesus , NOT JESUS THE CHRIST .
men have done this .
OH they think they are saved , they can even quoate the gospel , but me oh my they as bad as i once was when i too
could lip it and use JESUS name .
The problem is many follow another version , another image of said CHRIST .
And that other image of their version , SURE WILL OMIT and NEGATE the very words of What JESUS told his own
as it will other scrips too . THeir jesus sure dont seem to LINE UP with THE JESUS IS SAID BIBLE .
now that should scare folks big time .
Even their own so called pauline or etc gospels and etc DONT even add up to what them apostels said either .
This is not looking good at all .
And now in this last generation a strong delusion has now come to unite the divided
to come back home to be as one . ONLY IT AINT UNDER GOD OR HIS CHRIST .
MEN did this . We need to get in our bible and learn it well .
For many now believe the god , the jesus , the love they follow is OF GOD , AND IT AINT . its of another who USED
that NAME and wore it some wool as did its men , to come from within to DECIEVE and to merge
the denominations and even the other religoins under what they all think is LOVE and of GOD , only
as i wrote afore , ITS NOT COMING FROM GOD , its coming from HE who has desired to be AS GOD . that ol serpent dont sleep .

 

[Johann]

well i never said ALL the churches did this .

But DO imply it.
J.

 

[amigo de christo]

Brother, it seems you have a tendency to judge others for their approach to Scripture. Some here, like the Bereans in Acts 17:11, study diligently to show themselves approved, seeking to rightly divide the Word of Truth as instructed in 2 Timothy 2:15. The challenge arises when you view your method as the only valid one, while others may be content to focus on the words of Christ in the Gospels or are striving to understand the depth of the Pauline epistles.

Jesus taught in Matthew 7:3-5 about the importance of recognizing the plank in our own eye before pointing out the speck in someone else's. As I continue to study, I find that the more I learn, the more I realize my shortcomings in my walk with my Abba, echoing Philippians 3:12, where Paul expresses that he has not yet attained perfection.

Isn't it time for us to focus on preaching the gospel, as Paul exhorts in 1 Corinthians 1:17, and allow one another the grace to read and interpret the Scriptures for ourselves? Let’s utilize every available resource to dig deeper into His Word and seek a closer relationship with Jesus, as encouraged in James 4:8, where we are called to draw near to God.


J.

what part of GENERAL reminder did you not see my friend . I was not judging anyone here . but what i wrote was true .

 

[GracePeace]

i have a general reminder for us all .
The problem is that many within christendom are following another jesus , NOT JESUS THE CHRIST .
men have done this .
OH they think they are saved , they can even quoate the gospel , but me oh my they as bad as i once was when i too
could lip it and use JESUS name .
The problem is many follow another version , another image of said CHRIST .
And that other image of their version , SURE WILL OMIT and NEGATE the very words of What JESUS told his own
as it will other scrips too . THeir jesus sure dont seem to LINE UP with THE JESUS IS SAID BIBLE .
now that should scare folks big time .
Even their own so called pauline or etc gospels and etc DONT even add up to what them apostels said either .
This is not looking good at all .
And now in this last generation a strong delusion has now come to unite the divided
to come back home to be as one . ONLY IT AINT UNDER GOD OR HIS CHRIST .
MEN did this . We need to get in our bible and learn it well .
For many now believe the god , the jesus , the love they follow is OF GOD , AND IT AINT . its of another who USED
that NAME and wore it some wool as did its men , to come from within to DECIEVE and to merge
the denominations and even the other religoins under what they all think is LOVE and of GOD , only
as i wrote afore , ITS NOT COMING FROM GOD , its coming from HE who has desired to be AS GOD . that ol serpent dont sleep .

See, I believe we're not going to be slaves of sin (which he defines as "going against the Law of my mind", and is later iterated as "each man must be fully convinced in his own mind"), because we're "not under Law but under Grace"--this means that the Law gets written on our hearts, that God works in us to will and do for His pleasure, NOT that being "under Grace" doesn't make us live differently! We're NOT slaves of sin BECAUSE we're under Grace! It makes us be careful to keep God's commands, as Ezekiel says.

 

[amigo de christo]

But DO imply it.
J.

no . i say MOST ALL churches . i do not imply it . The churches i have seen , NOT looking good at all within them .
But i am sure there are genuine churches all around the world . Johann , judge not by appearance or assumptoin.
Judge the words spoken or in this case written .
Too many assume my friend and often assume wrong . Heck we all done that before .
But i say TEST their words . for we know not the heart of the person typing , nor do we see his tears he do cry for the peoples .
I aint the judger or hater johann . You got me misunderstood . Now i am direct and i am grave . YES .

 

[Johann]

what part of GENERAL reminder did you not see my friend . I was not judging anyone here . but what i wrote was true .

I've read your words carefully, and it seems you resist correction while judging and critiquing others here. Why is it that you feel exempt from needing correction, yet challenge the "theology" of those who wish to study? Do you genuinely believe that no one here is engaging with the Scriptures?

You are not my judge, my friend, and if I choose to write about James and Paul, I will continue to do so. It’s disheartening when you selectively quote my posts to cast me in a negative light while portraying yourself as a virtuous saint.

J.

 

[amigo de christo]

See, I believe we're not going to be slaves of sin (which he defines as "going against the Law of my mind", and is later iterated as "each man must be fully convinced in his own mind"), because we're "not under Law but under Grace"--this means that the Law gets written on our hearts, that God works in us to will and do for His pleasure, NOT that being "under Grace" doesn't make us live differently! We're NOT slaves of sin BECAUSE we're under Grace! It makes us be careful to keep God's commands, as Ezekiel says.

Actaully the law is Written upon our hearts . that is correct my friend . the righteousness of it is .
That was and is the new covenant . FOR GOD DOES work in us that which is WELL pleasing in HIS SIGHT .
I will write my laws upon their hearts and in their minds . GOD DESIRED a people who would worship him IN SPIRIT and IN TRUTH .
HE was wore out with disobediance . now due to the flesh was weak , WELL IN THE SON and BY THE SON
by that pure and holy shed blood of CHRIST , that DO reach into the INNER concious of man
We are cleansed . ON THE INSIDE , a NEW HEART , with new desires to serve honor and obey , GOD .
The agape LOVE of GOD that is shed upon the heart of a lamb
That KIND of LOVE actually WOULD FULLFILL the righteousness of the law . IT would OBEY GOD as HE always desired .
But again many probably have no idea as to what i am talking about my friend .
Many use the name of GOD , of CHRIST , but many do not KNOW HIM , just as i once was . lips could lip but the heart
was far from HIM . The Grace of God sure can change a man . A whole new creature indeed .
and though we walk in these earthen bodies and though our flesh be contrary and it will produce contrary lustful thoughts
WE who have the SPIRIT get alarm bells from teh SPIRIT when such lusts do ENTER INTO OUR MINDS by the flesh .
He gives us the desire and ablity to SERVE HIM and not the flesh . Now if one do err
of course the method of repent , confess , etc , correct is done . But many today now freely follow the flesh
NOTTHE SPIRIT and yet they think its the Spirit they do follow . We got a serious problem in the house
of christendom . Many have sat under teachers who preached another jesus to them
in order to get the pews and keep the pews FILLED . more money folks . and people have no idea .
But lambs . they got no desire to sit under false doctrines and ear tickling crowd pleasing sermons . FOR GOD
has changed their heart and HIS WORDS are now their meat .

 

[amigo de christo]

I've read your words carefully, and it seems you resist correction while judging and critiquing others here. Why is it that you feel exempt from needing correction, yet challenge the "theology" of those who wish to study? Do you genuinely believe that no one here is engaging with the Scriptures?

You are not my judge, my friend, and if I choose to write about James and Paul, I will continue to do so. It’s disheartening when you selectively quote my posts to cast me in a negative light while portraying yourself as a virtuous saint.

J.

then correct the doctrine i am saying . but you keep assuming i am doing or judging or etc .
Remember the other day we had this problem . I kept saying TELL me my specific error .
SO that is what you must do . SHOW me where my words have error . At least start with that . and remember
I said GENERAL REMINDER .

 

[GracePeace]

Actaully the law is Written upon our hearts . that is correct my friend . the righteousness of it is .
That was and is the new covenant . FOR GOD DOES work in us that which is WELL pleasing in HIS SIGHT .
I will write my laws upon their hearts and in their minds . GOD DESIRED a people who would worship him IN SPIRIT and IN TRUTH .
HE was wore out with disobediance . now due to the flesh was weak , WELL IN THE SON and BY THE SON
by that pure and holy shed blood of CHRIST , that DO reach into the INNER concious of man
We are cleansed . ON THE INSIDE , a NEW HEART , with new desires to serve honor and obey , GOD .
The agape LOVE of GOD that is shed upon the heart of a lamb
That KIND of LOVE actually WOULD FULLFILL the righteousness of the law . IT would OBEY GOD as HE always desired .
But again many probably have no idea as to what i am talking about my friend .
Many use the name of GOD , of CHRIST , but many do not KNOW HIM , just as i once was . lips could lip but the heart
was far from HIM . The Grace of God sure can change a man . A whole new creature indeed .
and though we walk in these earthen bodies and though our flesh be contrary and it will produce contrary lustful thoughts
WE who have the SPIRIT get alarm bells from teh SPIRIT when such lusts do ENTER INTO OUR MINDS by the flesh .
He gives us the desire and ablity to SERVE HIM and not the flesh . Now if one do err
of course the method of repent , confess , etc , correct is done . But many today now freely follow the flesh
NOTTHE SPIRIT and yet they think its the Spirit they do follow . We got a serious problem in the house
of christendom . Many have sat under teachers who preached another jesus to them
in order to get the pews and keep the pews FILLED . more money folks . and people have no idea .
But lambs . they got no desire to sit under false doctrines and ear tickling crowd pleasing sermons . FOR GOD
has changed their heart and HIS WORDS are now their meat.

It seems so obvious--don't know why (other than they flounder around saying "justification by faith alone! nothing that I do!", not understanding He wants us also to WALK IN FAITH) people misunderstand!

 

[amigo de christo]

I've read your words carefully, and it seems you resist correction while judging and critiquing others here. Why is it that you feel exempt from needing correction, yet challenge the "theology" of those who wish to study? Do you genuinely believe that no one here is engaging with the Scriptures?

You are not my judge, my friend, and if I choose to write about James and Paul, I will continue to do so. It’s disheartening when you selectively quote my posts to cast me in a negative light while portraying yourself as a virtuous saint.

J.

There it is . you THOUGHT i was talking about you . I was not talking about you . You can talk about james and paul .
I was talking about them other teachers and how i have seen THEM try and pit paul against james or james against paul .
NEVER was i talking about you . You are assuming .
And ps , the post i clicked on , your post , I was AGREEING with it . Agreeing johann . agreeing .
you got something in your head my friend about me . We must clear this up fast too .
You somehow get it in your head like i am talking about you , EVEN when i aint .
Now i will say this , IF you DO believe that james and paul taught contrary to the other , YOU are incorrect .
BUT i aint saying you do . I just said IF you do .

 

[Johann]

then correct the doctrine i am saying . but you keep assuming i am doing or judging or etc .
Remember the other day we had this problem . I kept saying TELL me my specific error .
SO that is what you must do . SHOW me where my words have error . At least start with that . and remember
I said GENERAL REMINDER .

That's the problem-you don't quote doctrine, just a bunch of words, always in a negative light.
And please saint, see the good in those that err, not willfully.

J.

 

[amigo de christo]

It seems so obvious--don't know why (other than they flounder around saying "justification by faith alone! nothing that I do!", not understanding He wants us also to WALK IN FAITH) people misunderstand!

Technically we are JUSTIFIED BY FAITH alone . Its just if our faith is as dead was mine once was , cause the works didnt add up
WELL then its not real faith .
JAMES knew this too . Even paul knew and agreed with james about dead faith .
Watch this . IF one provides not for his own , A DOING ACTION , specially they of his own household
HE has DENIED THE FAITH and is worse than an infidel .
You see both james and paul are on the same page .
THE HOW one is JUSTIFIED is what needs to be learned . HOW . how are we justified .
BY JESUS THE CHRIST . FAITH . we are his workman ship created unto good works . HE works in us that which is WELL pleasing
SO its very true we are only JUSTIFIED by FAITH IN CHRIST . however dead faith AINT FAITH now is it . it aint . james knew that too .
Let me say this my friend .
Many claim to believe in Christ , but sure dont seem to BELIEVE HIM .
Even the devils believe and tremble .
MANY seem to believe and claim to believe in JESUS , but many sure dont seem to BELEIVE HIS WORDS .
WHICH is pretty much DEAD FAITH right there in action .
IF WE TRULY BELIEVE JESUS IS THE CHRIST , WOULD WE NOT HAVE ALSO BELIEVED HIS WORDS .
yet many sure seem to rather believe men , NOT GOD .
so looks like dead faith to me my friend . CAUSE WHO WE BELIEVE is whose are . THAT DO INCLUDE HIS WORDS .
NOT a one of us has ever seen GOD or CHRIST . HOW do we treat HIS WORDS . bingo .

 

[Johann]

It seems so obvious--don't know why (other than they flounder around saying "justification by faith alone! nothing that I do!", not understanding He wants us also to WALK IN FAITH) people misunderstand!

What is here you don't understand?

Romans 1:17: "For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, ‘The righteous shall live by faith.’"

James 2:17: "So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead."

Galatians 5:6: "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love."

2 Corinthians 5:7: "For we walk by faith, not by sight."

Ephesians 2:10: "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."

 

[GracePeace]

What is here you don't understand?

Romans 1:17: "For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, ‘The righteous shall live by faith.’"

James 2:17: "So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead."

Galatians 5:6: "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love."

2 Corinthians 5:7: "For we walk by faith, not by sight."

Ephesians 2:10: "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."

Please clarify your objection, because I don't see the objection to what I said.

 

[amigo de christo]

That's the problem-you don't quote doctrine, just a bunch of words, always in a negative light.
And please saint, see the good in those that err, not willfully.

J.

Did you just ask me to see the good in those who do err , not willfully .
WELL my near and my dear friend .
please allow me to show you the only good i see in me and perhaps this might help us all to see something .
You want me to see the good in them . WELL the only GOOD IN ME , IS THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD .
HE IS the ONLY GOODNESS I HAVE IN ME .
So how is that for an answer . You cant see him , but you can see him working good through me .
NOW if you do see me do evil , THAT YOU can pin on me . me . cause that be the flesh
I truly have no way to boast in me my friend . BUT i can say THE ONLY GOODNESS , RIGHTEOUSNESS in ME
COMES OF GOD . that i can say . now have a wonderful night my friend .

 

[GracePeace]

Technically we are JUSTIFIED BY FAITH alone . Its just if our faith is as dead was mine once was , cause the works didnt add up
WELL then its not real faith .
JAMES knew this too . Even paul knew and agreed with james about dead faith .
Watch this . IF one provides not for his own , A DOING ACTION , specially they of his own household
HE has DENIED THE FAITH and is worse than an infidel .
You see both james and paul are on the same page .
THE HOW one is JUSTIFIED is what needs to be learned . HOW . how are we justified .
BY JESUS THE CHRIST . FAITH . we are his workman ship created unto good works . HE works in us that which is WELL pleasing
SO its very true we are only JUSTIFIED by FAITH IN CHRIST . however dead faith AINT FAITH now is it . it aint . james knew that too .
Let me say this my friend .
Many claim to believe in Christ , but sure dont seem to BELIEVE HIM .
Even the devils believe and tremble .
MANY seem to believe and claim to believe in JESUS , but many sure dont seem to BELEIVE HIS WORDS .
WHICH is pretty much DEAD FAITH right there in action .
IF WE TRULY BELIEVE JESUS IS THE CHRIST , WOULD WE NOT HAVE ALSO BELIEVED HIS WORDS .
yet many sure seem to rather believe men , NOT GOD .
so looks like dead faith to me my friend . CAUSE WHO WE BELIEVE is whose are . THAT DO INCLUDE HIS WORDS .
NOT a one of us has ever seen GOD or CHRIST . HOW do we treat HIS WORDS . bingo .

Technically, we are justified by having God's righteousness, and this is by faith, but if we don't walk in faith, we don't have God's righteousness, and we are condemned (Ro 14:23), so, no, justification is not "faith alone", it's also walking in that faith, because justification isn't "one and done", but God continually assesses us--at least, that's my view.