Leaders That Don't Support Good Works or Overcoming Sin

[Eternally Grateful]

@WalkInLight @Lizbeth @amigo de christo I wanted to direct this post to all of you. since 2 of you responded to my comment asking what Church you all went to to come up with this thinking that churches today are just sinful churches that do not care about sin.

I think what we are witnessing is a new revival. I grew up in churches and have visited many churches around the country in my time in the military, where they demanded you clean up your sin first. THEN maybe God will allow you to come to him. As an example. if someone came to the church and was sexually active outside of marriage, the church would ask her to confess her sin, if she did not. they asked her to leave and when she was ready to repent and stop her sin, she could return and they would introduce her to God.

This is not what the church is about. Jesus did not do this. He came to love, he came not to judge, he also came to save.

That sexually active girl had no power to stop. Unless she was saved first. and if she did stop based on fear (as many churches promoted) then she did nto stop because she really understood. she stopped because she was forced to. Chances are very high that she would fall back into sin again and walk away. because she was never healed to begin with. This is why legalism is so dangerous.

Jesus was called a friend of sinners. He was judged by the religious elite of being a person who allowed sin to run rampant. and basically had the same false accusations thrown at him, I see people throwing at many churches today.

My church is one of them being accused. I can tell you right now my church does not allow sin. In fact. i have witnessed a few people being called out on the final form of discipline in front of the home group and told to repent or they would be asked to leave until they repented of the sin they were doing. This after counseling and doing discipline the way the word tells us to discipline church members (known believers)

Many churches have left the denominational churches because many of those churches have lost their way, Just because a church wants to win the lost. and THEN help them clean up their lives does not mean they endorse sin, or ignore it.. They are just going back to the way Jesus did things.

 

[WalkInLight]

@WalkInLight @Lizbeth @amigo de christo I wanted to direct this post to all of you. since 2 of you responded to my comment asking what Church you all went to to come up with this thinking that churches today are just sinful churches that do not care about sin.

I think what we are witnessing is a new revival. I grew up in churches and have visited many churches around the country in my time in the military, where they demanded you clean up your sin first. THEN maybe God will allow you to come to him. As an example. if someone came to the church and was sexually active outside of marriage, the church would ask her to confess her sin, if she did not. they asked her to leave and when she was ready to repent and stop her sin, she could return and they would introduce her to God.

This is not what the church is about. Jesus did not do this. He came to love, he came not to judge, he also came to save.

That sexually active girl had no power to stop. Unless she was saved first. and if she did stop based on fear (as many churches promoted) then she did nto stop because she really understood. she stopped because she was forced to. Chances are very high that she would fall back into sin again and walk away. because she was never healed to begin with. This is why legalism is so dangerous.

Jesus was called a friend of sinners. He was judged by the religious elite of being a person who allowed sin to run rampant. and basically had the same false accusations thrown at him, I see people throwing at many churches today.

My church is one of them being accused. I can tell you right now my church does not allow sin. In fact. i have witnessed a few people being called out on the final form of discipline in front of the home group and told to repent or they would be asked to leave until they repented of the sin they were doing. This after counseling and doing discipline the way the word tells us to discipline church members (known believers)

Many churches have left the denominational churches because many of those churches have lost their way, Just because a church wants to win the lost. and THEN help them clean up their lives does not mean they endorse sin, or ignore it.. They are just going back to the way Jesus did things.

There are two distinct issues here. How we encounter God and community behaviour.
The community of believers is tied together by love of Jesus and a behaviour pattern that acknowledges this.

Obviously people come to meetings and desire to become part of the community of believers but repentance and showing
that repentance is part of overcoming and following Jesus is needed. We cannot control how people encounter God or gain the power
to change sinful behaviour, but we need to love and not hurt one another.

It appears that the idea of holding to standards of behaviour in your view is legalism.
But I cannot resolve love working out in actions of the body, is by its nature righteous and loving, and to behave otherwise
would harm others.

What can easily confuse things is deep seated emotional issues from peoples background that control them, to which it is
not simple coming to the Lord will resolve things, but maybe therapy, building trust and supportive relationships will be a
next step. What one cannot do is compromise the desire to walk in a loving righteous way simply because this is the only
way to walk, walking in the light.

Some fellowships go as far as to say there is no walking in righteousness, it is just being honest we are sinners bound to
sin. This is not the gospel of Jesus. God bless you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There are two distinct issues here. How we encounter God and community behaviour.
The community of believers is tied together by love of Jesus and a behaviour pattern that acknowledges this.

Obviously people come to meetings and desire to become part of the community of believers but repentance and showing
that repentance is part of overcoming and following Jesus is needed. We cannot control how people encounter God or gain the power
to change sinful behaviour, but we need to love and not hurt one another.

It appears that the idea of holding to standards of behaviour in your view is legalism.
But I cannot resolve love working out in actions of the body, is by its nature righteous and loving, and to behave otherwise
would harm others.

What can easily confuse things is deep seated emotional issues from peoples background that control them, to which it is
not simple coming to the Lord will resolve things, but maybe therapy, building trust and supportive relationships will be a
next step. What one cannot do is compromise the desire to walk in a loving righteous way simply because this is the only
way to walk, walking in the light.

Some fellowships go as far as to say there is no walking in righteousness, it is just being honest we are sinners bound to
sin. This is not the gospel of Jesus. God bless you

when a pastor. or any person in any church tells a person that have to clean up their act. then maybe just maybe God will save them.

They do not represent God.

 

[Lizbeth]

@WalkInLight @Lizbeth @amigo de christo I wanted to direct this post to all of you. since 2 of you responded to my comment asking what Church you all went to to come up with this thinking that churches today are just sinful churches that do not care about sin.

I think what we are witnessing is a new revival. I grew up in churches and have visited many churches around the country in my time in the military, where they demanded you clean up your sin first. THEN maybe God will allow you to come to him. As an example. if someone came to the church and was sexually active outside of marriage, the church would ask her to confess her sin, if she did not. they asked her to leave and when she was ready to repent and stop her sin, she could return and they would introduce her to God.

This is not what the church is about. Jesus did not do this. He came to love, he came not to judge, he also came to save.

That sexually active girl had no power to stop. Unless she was saved first. and if she did stop based on fear (as many churches promoted) then she did nto stop because she really understood. she stopped because she was forced to. Chances are very high that she would fall back into sin again and walk away. because she was never healed to begin with. This is why legalism is so dangerous.

Jesus was called a friend of sinners. He was judged by the religious elite of being a person who allowed sin to run rampant. and basically had the same false accusations thrown at him, I see people throwing at many churches today.

My church is one of them being accused. I can tell you right now my church does not allow sin. In fact. i have witnessed a few people being called out on the final form of discipline in front of the home group and told to repent or they would be asked to leave until they repented of the sin they were doing. This after counseling and doing discipline the way the word tells us to discipline church members (known believers)

Many churches have left the denominational churches because many of those churches have lost their way, Just because a church wants to win the lost. and THEN help them clean up their lives does not mean they endorse sin, or ignore it.. They are just going back to the way Jesus did things.

Brother, sorry to take so long to answer. Of COURSE it is so wrong what those churches are doing and they are part of the general apostasy for being like that. Some churches are too soft and lenient regarding sin, and others are just plain nutty and religious and cultishly controlling. Jesus was so right that the children of this world are wiser than the children of light.....Christians so often bring the gospel into disrepute by foolishness. But we are not to use the same approach with the lost that we do with those who know or claim to know Christ. Paul was plain and clear that it's not our business to judge those outside, but we are to judge (in the sense of governing, disciplining if necessary), those who are inside. And yes, how can someone have power or dominion over sin really, until they first receive Jesus! That is the whole point of the gospel as opposed to being under the letter of the Law and therefore unsaved.

There is a middle road between the two ditches of leniency and legalism, may the Lord give us His wisdom and guidance to find it.

 

[WalkInLight]

when a pastor. or any person in any church tells a person that have to clean up their act. then maybe just maybe God will save them.

They do not represent God.

I personally divide accepting or rejecting people and their behaviour separate from salvation. I do not know who is or is not saved,
but I can interact with people who behave in a loving way and those who do not.

Jesus did not call us to have fellowship and openness with abusers, but rather to call those who walk with Him our
brothers and sisters.

The apostles were keen to encourage righteous behaviour and avoid looking down on others but rather consider others
better than ourselves. Peter expressed brotherly love to be a way to make sure of our salvation.

Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall,
2 Peter 1:10

Peter is emphasising that love does not guarantee anything, it is giving outwards to bless others, without a condition of a
positive response. In this way I believe our view of salvation is assured, we know we love, and have faith the Lord loves us
back, and that is enough. Insecurity that wants a guarantee puts the emphasis in the wrong place, I belong so everything is
fine, rather than I share because love from Jesus changed me. I trust the Lord will bless on the last day, but that is His
choice, not mine. Status, rank, position, theology, can lead to pride and assumption, that the pharisees fell into, so it is always
a tension. And in this tension, there is also a dividing line between sin and inappropriate behaviour, one being worthy of
action and the other coping in love.

God bless you

 

[amigo de christo]

when a pastor. or any person in any church tells a person that have to clean up their act. then maybe just maybe God will save them.

They do not represent God.

Correct all sin and error within the church . However i , i have never once said YOU must clean up your act
BEFORE GOD will save you . No sir my dear friend . its just called correcting all sin within the church
All sin must be exposed . But telling anyone you have to clean up your act before You can come to GOD , is a lie
i dont say or imply . i just correct all sin . These tricksters are getting wise on how they deceive these days .
Very wise . i bet most of them would accuse ME of doing this junk , just cause I DO correct sin .
So allow me to remind us of what i do .
ANYONE is welcome to come to the church and visit .
Believer or unbeliever can walk in them doors and sit their behinds down on them pews .
Because unbelievers will come to churches . WE should want them to come , RIGHT .
BUT THIS IS KEY . IF anyone comes within that church and claims to believe and is in SIN and YOU KNOW THEY IN SIN
IT GETS CORRECTED asap fast . as for the unbeliever , well they should be hearing LOTS of biblical truth in them sermons .
You see most churches have made big boo boo . THEY stopped the reading of certain scrips in said churches
BIG mistake . telling themselves oh we dont want to offend or run off anyone . BIG mistake .
TRUTH should be preached at all times . HE or she who hears , WILL hear , he or she who dont , WONT .
BUT all bible should be taught in them churches and all sin should be corrected in all churches .

 

[amigo de christo]

Brother, sorry to take so long to answer. Of COURSE it is so wrong what those churches are doing and they are part of the general apostasy for being like that. Some churches are too soft and lenient regarding sin, and others are just plain nutty and religious and cultishly controlling. Jesus was so right that the children of this world are wiser than the children of light.....Christians so often bring the gospel into disrepute by foolishness. But we are not to use the same approach with the lost that we do with those who know or claim to know Christ. Paul was plain and clear that it's not our business to judge those outside, but we are to judge (in the sense of governing, disciplining if necessary), those who are inside. And yes, how can someone have power or dominion over sin really, until they first receive Jesus! That is the whole point of the gospel as opposed to being under the letter of the Law and therefore unsaved.

There is a middle road between the two ditches of leniency and legalism, may the Lord give us His wisdom and guidance to find it.

The war for the souls of men rages onward hour by hour and time is getting late dear sister .
To the trenches .