Oddly OSAS

[Phoneman777]

I hold to OSAS. I thought you held to OSAS.

(Cue reprogrammed T-800 voice): Now, listen to me very closely:

In Matthew 24:12-13 KJV, the "many" in verse 12 who allow widespread iniquity to kill their "agape" cold and dead that Jesus contrasts with the man in verse 13 who "shall endure to the end" and "shall be saved"...are former saints.

Because only saints can demonstrate "agape" which is "happily keeping the commandments of God (1 John 5:3 KJV) while the wicked can't keep God's commandments even if they wanted to (Romans 8:7 KJV).

 

[GracePeace]

(Cue reprogrammed T-800 voice): Now, listen to me very closely:

In Matthew 24:12-13 KJV, the "many" in verse 12 who allow widespread iniquity to kill their "agape" cold and dead that Jesus contrasts with the man in verse 13 who "shall endure to the end" and "shall be saved"...are former saints.

Because only saints can demonstrate "agape" which is "happily keeping the commandments of God (1 John 5:3 KJV) while the wicked can't keep God's commandments even if they wanted to (Romans 8:7 KJV).

1a. So, you're NOSAS?
1b. Even NOSAS should trust they are foreknown, predestined, that they were with Christ from the beginning, that Christ won't lose them, etc, just like OSAS. You'll obtain grace, trust in God.

2. Right, what do you do with "if they were of us, they would've remained with us", or that Christ will lose none? That's what this thread seeks to answer, if you'll read it.

 

[Phoneman777]

Right, what do you do with "if they were of us, they would've remained with us"

A warning that certain individuals would creep in and pretend to be Christian in order to hijack Christianity - which the papal Antichrist indeed accomplished - doesn't establish OSAS.

or that Christ will lose none?

Did not Judas - who belonged to God because he had His spirit (Romans 8:9 KJV) - wind up lost?

And, why was Judas lost? Because while the 11 "kept Thy word" by choosing to invite Jesus in to keep it for them, Judas ceased to keep it by kicking Jesus off the throne of his heart.

 

[Phoneman777]

1a. So, you're NOSAS?

I think Matthew 24:12-13 KJV, 1 John 5:3 KJV, and Romans 8:7 KJV - and the lukewarm Laodiceans - leave us no other choice.

 

[GracePeace]

A warning that certain individuals would creep in and pretend to be Christian in order to hijack Christianity - which the papal Antichrist indeed accomplished - doesn't establish OSAS.

Asking about the principle "if they were of us they would've remained". What does that mean to you?

Did not Judas - who belonged to God because he had His spirit (Romans 8:9 KJV) - wind up lost

John 7 says the Spirit hadn't been given until Christ's glorification.

And, why was Judas lost? Because while the 11 "kept Thy word" by choosing to invite Jesus in to keep it for them, Judas ceased to keep it by kicking Jesus off the throne of his heart.

Judas was selected specifically to betray Jesus. He was "the son of perdition", and "a devil", and was, unlike the other disciples "unclean".

 

[GracePeace]

I think Matthew 24:12-13 KJV, 1 John 5:3 KJV, and Romans 8:7 KJV - and the lukewarm Laodiceans - leave us no other choice.

Right, this thread addresses the issue--and I'd argue you, as a NOSAS, should still affirm God foreknew and predestined you and will keep you.

 

[Phoneman777]

Asking about the principle "if they were of us they would've remained". What does that mean to you?

It's a warning of the coming papal apostasy - not evidence of OSAS.

John 7 says the Spirit hadn't been given until Christ's glorification.

Which verse says that?

Judas was selected specifically to betray Jesus. He was "the son of perdition", and "a devil", and was, unlike the other disciples "unclean".

There is no verse that says God "selected" Judas to betray Jesus. Foreknowledge of what a person will do is not the same as the directing him to do it - like a news helicopter high above a long tunnel reporting a tunnel crash that hasn't happened yet upon seeing a speeding VW enter one side and two racing semi trucks enter the other.

 

[GracePeace]

It's a warning of the coming papal apostasy - not evidence of OSAS.

Is it true thst those who are "of us" have the destiny to "remain with us"?

Which verse says that?

John 7
39Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

There is no verse that says God "selected" Judas to betray Jesus.

John 6
70Jesus answered them, “Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”

Foreknowledge of what a person will do is not the same as the directing him to do it - like a news helicopter high above a long tunnel reporting a tunnel crash that hasn't happened yet upon seeing a speeding VW enter one side and two racing semi trucks enter the other.

Irespectively, you were known by God, so He predestined you, thus called you, thus you believed and were justified. God laid out His plans beforehand.

 

[Phoneman777]

Right, this thread addresses the issue--and I'd argue you, as a NOSAS, should still affirm God foreknew and predestined you and will keep you.

We can just as easily say God predestined all of humanity to be saved, but most choose to not follow that destiny.

 

[GracePeace]

We can just as easily say God predestined all of humanity to be saved, but most choose to not follow that destiny.

I'd disagree, but I'd prefer you read the thread so I don't have to repeat myself.

 

[Phoneman777]

Is it true thst those who are "of us" have the destiny to "remain with us"?

No - the Unmerciful Servant went out fully forgiven, but was returned with that forgiveness withdrawn.

John 7
39Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

David in the OT had the Spirit, for he prayed "take not Thy Holy Spirit from me" - so "the Spirit" in John 7 must refer to something other than what you're suggesting...and it does.

It refers to the "fulness of the Spirit" that was poured out on Pentecost which provided the "gifts of the Spirit" for the purpose of evangelism.

John 6
70Jesus answered them, “Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.

Where does it say "chose you to betray Me"?

The only "choosing" that took place with regard to Judas was his own choice to betray Jesus.

Irespectively, you were known by God, so He predestined you, thus called you, thus you believed and were justified. God laid out His plans beforehand.

If God is forcing everyone to be saved or lost, why all the pleadings for people to choose God and all the warnings for those who decide to make a wrong choice?

 

[Phoneman777]

I'd disagree, but I'd prefer you read the thread so I don't have to repeat myself.

I did read the OP. It's about counting impenitently backslidden saints as "never having been saved".

 

[GracePeace]

I did read the OP. It's about counting impenitently backslidden saints as "never having been saved".

Not just the OP, the thread.

 

[GracePeace]

No - the Unmerciful Servant went out fully forgiven, but was returned with that forgiveness withdrawn.

Yep.

David in the OT had the Spirit, for he prayed "take not Thy Holy Spirit from me" - so "the Spirit" in John 7 must refer to something other than what you're suggesting...and it does.

Yep.

It refers to the "fulness of the Spirit" that was poured out on Pentecost which provided the "gifts of the Spirit" for the purpose of evangelism.

No, Jesus says the Spirit has been with the disciples, but will be in the disciples (Jn 14:17)--it is Jesus drawing the distinction, not me : Judas wasn't indwelt by the Spirit of Truth; rather, he was "a devil", and, as time went on, he was indwelt by satan (Jn 13:27).

Where does it say "chose you to betray Me"?

The only "choosing" that took place with regard to Judas was his own choice to betray Jesus.

Where does the Bible say "trinity"? It is inferred.
Why else would Christ, Who came to give His life, intentionally select a "devil" whom He knew "from the beginning" would "betray" Him (Jn 6:64)? Christ "knew what He was intending to do" (Jn 6:6), and chose a devil for that purpose.

If God is forcing everyone to be saved or lost, why all the pleadings for people to choose God and all the warnings for those who decide to make a wrong choice?

We preach the Good News, and the people who obey the Gospel were foreknown and predestined. They were Christ's sheep.

 

[Taken]

Since those who fall away from the faith are counted as having never been saved (their faith counted as righteousness is forgotten (Ez 18:24), their names blotted out of the Book of Life), in a way, those who have the faith never fall away, but continue on with the believers (1 Jn 2:19), which is, in an odd way, a form of OSAS--which frees me to accept and be comforted by the verses that speak of having been predestined, etc.

People WHO ARE Saved, ARE Saved AFTER their BODY…IS physically DEAD….or by through, of Jesus’ BETTER TESTAMENT, of such mans BODY “ACCOUNTED” Dead, “crucified with Jesus’ Body”….

Once a BODY “IS” physically or accounted DEAD…it no LONGER can MAKE A CHOICE to NOT BE DEAD…and THEN Decide to Believe or Not Believe…..

At the PHYSICAL Death of a body…their salvation Depends on IF they believed IN their heart, IN the Lord God…WHILE they were ALIVE.

At the time a person decides to become Crucified with Jesus’ Body….God searches that mans HEART that his Heart truly believes OR NOT… If true belief, He becomes Soul SAVED RIGHT THEN.

And WHY….some “ARE” walking about this earth ALREADY “soul” saved….and others ARE NOT “soul’ saved.

Salvation is ALWAYS given ONCE…FOREVER…AFTER a bodily death…(physical. death or freely given death, crucified with Jesus)….called a living Sacrifice). They can NOT thereafter FREELY, resurrect their own DEAD body and make a different choice….And why Scripture WARNS to be diligent and sure of ones Choosing.)

2 Pet 1:
[10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Heb 10:
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[GracePeace]

People WHO ARE Saved, ARE Saved AFTER their BODY…IS physically DEAD….or by through, of Jesus’ BETTER TESTAMENT, of such mans BODY “ACCOUNTED” Dead, “crucified with Jesus’ Body”….

Once a BODY “IS” physically or accounted DEAD…it no LONGER can MAKE A CHOICE to NOT BE DEAD…and THEN Decide to Believe or Not Believe…..

At the PHYSICAL Death of a body…their salvation Depends on IF they believed IN their heart, IN the Lord God…WHILE they were ALIVE.

At the time a person decides to become Crucified with Jesus’ Body….God searches that mans HEART that his Heart truly believes OR NOT… If true belief, He becomes Soul SAVED RIGHT THEN.

And WHY….some “ARE” walking about this earth ALREADY “soul” saved….and others ARE NOT “soul’ saved.

Salvation is ALWAYS given ONCE…FOREVER…AFTER a bodily death…(physical. death or freely given death, crucified with Jesus)….called a living Sacrifice). They can NOT thereafter FREELY, resurrect their own DEAD body and make a different choice….And why Scripture WARNS to be diligent and sure of ones Choosing.)

2 Pet 1:
[10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Heb 10:
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Glory to God,
Taken

I don't think this addresses what I've said.

 

[Taken]

1 John 2:19 KJV
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Those who go out never were truly in.

Much love!

Men speak from their minds thoughts, which satisfy the ears of Other men.

God Who is Spirit, is interested in a mans “spirit’s” thoughts, which is in a mans Heart…(otherwise called the mans TRUTH)…

God further express His VIEW of a natural mans CARNAL MIND….as being Against God and incapable of understanding spiritual things.

Correct…test everything…God does, when He search’s a mans spirit in his heart….as to whether the man is entertaining LIP SERVICE or a spirit declaration of belief.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

I don't think this addresses what I've said.

What you said gives me no clear conviction of your view.

What I said is Scripturally taught.

 

[GracePeace]

What you said gives me no clear conviction of your view.

What I said is Scripturally taught.

Are you asking me to clarify my view?
If you are open to it, I do clarify my view as the thread goes on, in my interactions with other users; to avoid having to repeat myself, could I ask you to read the thread?

 

[Taken]

Are you asking me to clarify my view?
If you are open to it, I do clarify my view as the thread goes on, in my interactions with other users; to avoid having to repeat myself, could I ask you to read the thread?

What does “oddly OSAS” mean?

Talking about a topic is simply invoking a discussion…
I know what a person claims to believe, when they say….I believe such and such….otherwise it’s just guesswork.