God's Hatred

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Christian Soldier

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This is not a request!

Matthew 5:44
44 But I say to you, love your enemies,
Nobody is denying that Jesus did say that, but we need to consider the context in which it was spoken. We can't pluck out short verses and force the rest of the bible to conform to it.

Remember, Jesus is God. He is the same God who ordered His people to slaughter entire ethnic groups of people, including their children and their pregnant women and their animals as well. You don't slaughter entire country of people, unless you hate them.

The same Jesus said "love not the world", the world is my enemy and here is Jesus telling me not to love it. So, again we need to consider the context of every verse.
 

Jack

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Nobody is denying that Jesus did say that, but we need to consider the context in which it was spoken. We can't pluck out short verses and force the rest of the bible to conform to it.

Remember, Jesus is God. He is the same God who ordered His people to slaughter entire ethnic groups of people, including their children and their pregnant women and their animals as well. You don't slaughter entire country of people, unless you hate them.

The same Jesus said "love not the world", the world is my enemy and here is Jesus telling me not to love it. So, again we need to consider the context of every verse.
I'll stick with Jesus!

Matthew 5:44
44 But I say to you, love your enemies,
 

Christian Soldier

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I'll stick with Jesus!

Matthew 5:44
44 But I say to you, love your enemies,
OK, you stick with that Jesus,

But I'll stick with the Jesus who commanded us to hate our parents.

Luke 14:26 ,“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, cannot be my disciple.“

The Jesus of hate, is more exciting that the meek and mild, long haired hippy version of Jesus, who loves everyone unconditionally. I just don't like that Jesus.
 

Jack

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OK, you stick with that Jesus,

But I'll stick with the Jesus who commanded us to hate our parents.

Luke 14:26 ,“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, cannot be my disciple.“

The Jesus of hate, is more exciting that the meek and mild, long haired hippy version of Jesus, who loves everyone unconditionally. I just don't like that Jesus.
You HATE your parents? Do you also hate your own life? You truly have my sympathy!
 
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Christian Soldier

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You HATE your parents? Do you also hate your own life? You truly have my sympathy!
Yes I hate my parents and I hate my life, because I obey my Lord and Savior. Unlike you, I don't cherry pick Gods Word to trash the bitter things and only eat the sweet things.

As a born again elect Saint of God, I don't have the luxury you enjoy. I don't have the option to spit out those bitter things that God feeds me. You don't trust God, so you spit out all those things you don't like and you lean on your own wisdom to save yourself.
 

Jack

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Yes I hate my parents and I hate my life, because I obey my Lord and Savior. Unlike you, I don't cherry pick Gods Word to trash the bitter things and only eat the sweet things.

As a born again elect Saint of God, I don't have the luxury you enjoy. I don't have the option to spit out those bitter things that God feeds me. You don't trust God, so you spit out all those things you don't like and you lean on your own wisdom to save yourself.
Wow! Do you also cut off your body parts and pluck out your eyes?

Mark 9:45-47
45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched-- 46 where 'Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.'47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire--
 
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Phoneman777

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Yes I hate my parents and I hate my life, because I obey my Lord and Savior. Unlike you, I don't cherry pick Gods Word to trash the bitter things and only eat the sweet things.

As a born again elect Saint of God, I don't have the luxury you enjoy. I don't have the option to spit out those bitter things that God feeds me. You don't trust God, so you spit out all those things you don't like and you lean on your own wisdom to save yourself.
If you hate your brother, you're a murderer "and ye know that know murderer hath eternal life abiding in him".
 

Phoneman777

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As an elect Saint of God, I am being sanctified and transformed to be more and more like Christ everyday. And I know that Jesus hates the vast majority of mankind so much that He castes them into the lake of fire to be tormented for all eternity.
"No murderer hath eternal life abiding in him" - right?

So, if no murderer hath eternal life, how can he have eternal suffering?

The wicked "pass away" and "shall be as though they had not been" and "shall not be" and their place "shall not be". They won't be found anywhere because they will have ceased to exist.
 

Phoneman777

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John 2:15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
The next verse tells us specifically what is is about the world and in the world from which we're to withhold our love - and it's not people. It's "lust".
Luke 14:26-30 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his...brothers."
We're to hate our brother (Luke 14:26 KJV) but doing so makes us a murderer (1 John 3:15 KJV).

A massive contradiction.

Of course, you'll say "that's talking about unsaved brethren". Now we've become "antichrist" by "taking the place of Christ" on His judgment seat. We may judge a prophet is true or false by his outward fruits but never pass judgment on another's inward salvational condition because God alone is able to look upon the heart. Sure, God had no problem with Christians condemning Saul's words and actions, but did He approve of anyone judging him as "lost" while in His foreknowledge He knew that he as Paul would write most of the NT?

Another massive contradiction.

So, since we can't determine who is "saved" and "lost" we have no basis upon which to withhold love from anyone. Therefore, the only interpretation of "hate" which maintains Scriptural harmony is this:

God does "hate" sin for what it did to Jesus - but "hate" for sinners means "love less" or "prefer less".
 
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Christian Soldier

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Wow! Do you also cut of your body parts and pluck out your eyes?

Mark 9:45-47
45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched-- 46 where 'Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.'47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire--
Yes Sir, I' missing my left foot and my right eye. So I'm good to go. Thankfully mine were symbolic amputations, because I know Jesus knows I'm not that stupid to take those things literally. :jest:
If you hate your brother, you're a murderer "and ye know that know murderer hath eternal life abiding in him".
Why are you abusing Gods Word and calling God a liar. The verse you mentioned, exhorts us to love our brethren. You obviously don't know the difference between "brethren" and "biological brother".

As an Elect Saint of God, I'm commanded to love my fellow Saints "brethren". As opposed to the biological brother, whom I'm commanded to hate.

May I suggest you find and join a beginners bible class, so you can learn the basics, before you embarrass yourself any further.

1 John 3:14 "We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren". Can you see which brothers, the verse is referring to . It's certainly not referring to my reprobate brother.
 
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Christian Soldier

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"No murderer hath eternal life abiding in him" - right?

So, if no murderer hath eternal life, how can he have eternal suffering?

The wicked "pass away" and "shall be as though they had not been" and "shall not be" and their place "shall not be". They won't be found anywhere because they will have ceased to exist.
Annihilationism is taught in the Church of Satan, it is a lie which came from the pits of hell. It was conjured up by Satan, to give sinners a false hope that they won't be tormented in hell for all eternity as God promised He would do to those who die in their sin.

You already died once, and if you haven't been born again, you're still dead, and if you die in your dead state, you will suffer the second death from which you can never be born again out of.

Death is a state of being, Adam and Eve died on the day they ate the forbidden fruit. So death is not annihilation, those who die in their sin are cast into hell against their will and there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth, where the worm dies not and the fire never goes out and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Every unbeliever wishes that they could case to exist, when they pass from this life and step into eternity. But sadly for them, they will realize that there is no way to stop existing and they will feel the pain as much as they ever did in this body.
 

Christian Soldier

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The next verse tells us specifically what is is about the world and in the world from which we're to withhold our love - and it's not people. It's "lust".

We're to hate our brother (Luke 14:26 KJV) but doing so makes us a murderer (1 John 3:15 KJV).

A massive contradiction.

Of course, you'll say "that's talking about unsaved brethren". Now we've become "antichrist" by "taking the place of Christ" on His judgment seat. We may judge a prophet is true or false by his outward fruits but never pass judgment on another's inward salvational condition because God alone is able to look upon the heart. Sure, God had no problem with Christians condemning Saul's words and actions, but did He approve of anyone judging him as "lost" while in His foreknowledge He knew that he as Paul would write most of the NT?

Another massive contradiction.

So, since we can't determine who is "saved" and "lost" we have no basis upon which to withhold love from anyone. Therefore, the only interpretation of "hate" which maintains Scriptural harmony is this:

God does "hate" sin for what it did to Jesus - but "hate" for sinners means "love less" or "prefer less".
The world is the enemy of God and His people, so you can include your lust as an enemy of God and you are right to do so. So you should hate yourself, because your lust is a part of the world.

The world is made up of mostly hell fodder scum, so I don't love the scum of the world because they are Gods enemy. If I loved them then I would be an enemy of God, because He Himself hates them.

I can only have fellowship and love my fellow Saints, you can love the world if you are of the world, because the world loves it's own. I don't know who Gods elect are, but that doesn't mean that I should risk loving unbelievers or having any fellowship with them. I can only have fellowship with those who are born again believers, and their profession of faith is confirmed by the life they live. I don't accept anyone's word, I need proof.

No God doesn't just hate sin, He hates the sinner before he is even born. He confirmed that by saying "Esau I have hated, while he was still in his mothers womb, before he done any good or bad". See you're gob smacked by these verses which blow your false doctrine to smithereens.
 

Phoneman777

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Annihilationism is taught in the Church of Satan, it is a lie which came from the pits of hell. It was conjured up by Satan, to give sinners a false hope that they won't be tormented in hell for all eternity as God promised He would do to those who die in their sin.
No, that would be eternal torment, which Satan uses to sew doubt in man concerning God's love. The only "proof" for eternal torment is a handful of verse that are either misinterpreted or misapplied.
You already died once, and if you haven't been born again, you're still dead, and if you die in your dead state, you will suffer the second death from which you can never be born again out of.
Exactly - the wicked die the "second death" which is eternal death, everlasting death, permanent death...a death from which there will be no resurrection. They're not "alive in torment" - they're dead.
Death is a state of being
No, it's a state of non-being.

"They shall be as though they had not been".
"And never shalt thou be anymore".
"Yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be."
"The day that cometh shall burn them up...that it shall leave them neither root nor branch."
(The phrase "leave them neither root nor branch" was a Hebrew proverb for complete, total destruction.)
Adam and Eve died on the day they ate the forbidden fruit.
Yes, the died "spiritually". Also, since "a day with the Lord is as 1,000 years" and both died long before the age of 1,000, yes, they died that "1,000" year day.
So death is not annihilation, those who die in their sin are cast into hell against their will and there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth
After the resurrection of the damned, they wicked are cast into the LOF and pass out of existence once again for all eternity.
where the worm dies not and the fire never goes out
The same expression is used in connection with a destruction of Jerusalem - are there immortal worms and eternal fire burning there now?

"Worm dieth not" and "fire that is not quenched" refers to the "Valley of Hinnom" which was the "city dump" that was kept burning perpetually, and there was a continual supply of maggot ridden carcasses that were brought there for burning.
and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
The NT word "forever" is the Greek "aionios" which means "duration" and can refer to duration which is "undefined but not endless" or "undefined because endless". The context determines which.

Scholars agree that the words for "forever" in the OT and NT means "eternity when it is applied to God but when applied to man, it generally means "all the says of life".

Plenty of examples in Scripture have "forever" being used in conjunction with things that have ended, such as when a slave was granted freedom but could not bear to leave behind a wife and child he'd acquired while enslaved (because they remained the property of his master), he could choose to remain his slave and "serve him forever". Will he be a slave to that master in heaven? Of course not.
Every unbeliever wishes that they could case to exist, when they pass from this life and step into eternity. But sadly for them, they will realize that there is no way to stop existing and they will feel the pain as much as they ever did in this body.
Since the Soul comes into existence as a consequence of the union of the Body and Breath of Life, when the Breath returns to God and the Body to dust, the Soul cannot but cease to exist.
 

Jack

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Christian Soldier

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Symbolic? That's JW doctrines!

But you believe God wants you to HATE people! That's doctrines of demons!
The gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing, please don't make a mockery of Gods Word. You cherry pick the bible, at your own peril. You're accusing God of hypocrisy and double standards.
 
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Johann

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God hates teh lost and knows who will be lost.

We are called to love all, for the simple fact we do not know who will or will not be saved.
This is false and not what the Scripture is saying. Praise God I am not a follower of Calvin!
Election is corporate and for SERVICE.


Ezekiel 33:11 (NKJV):
"'Say to them: ‘As I live,’ says the Lord God, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?’"
This verse is perhaps the most direct statement from God declaring that He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked and calls them to repentance and life.

Ezekiel 18:23 (NKJV):
"Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? says the Lord God, and not that he should turn from his ways and live?"
God questions whether He finds any pleasure in the death of the wicked, making it clear that He desires their repentance.

Ezekiel 18:32 (NKJV):
"For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. 'Therefore turn and live!'"
Once again, God emphasizes that He has no delight in death, urging sinners to turn from their ways and live.

2 Peter 3:9 (NKJV):
"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance."
While not using the exact phrase "pleasure in death," this verse shows God's desire that no one perish and that all come to repentance.

Romans 5:8 (NKJV):
"But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
This verse highlights that God's love is not dependent on our righteousness but is extended to us even while we are sinners.

John 3:16 (NKJV):
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
God's love for the whole world, which includes sinners, is demonstrated in His giving of Jesus as a sacrifice.

Luke 19:10 (NKJV):
"For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost."
Jesus' mission to seek and save the lost shows God's heart for sinners.

1 Timothy 1:15 (NKJV):
"This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief."
Paul acknowledges God's love for sinners, including himself as the foremost example.

Luke 15:7 (NKJV):
"I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance."
This passage speaks of God's joy and love for sinners when they repent.

Ezekiel 33:11 (NKJV):
"Say to them: 'As I live,' says the Lord God, 'I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?'"
God expresses His desire for the wicked to turn from their ways and live, showing His love for sinners by offering them life.

Titus 3:4-5 (NKJV):
"But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit."
God's love and mercy toward sinners is highlighted in His act of saving us, not based on our works, but according to His mercy.
 

Jack

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The gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing, please don't make a mockery of Gods Word. You cherry pick the bible, at your own peril. You're accusing God of hypocrisy and double standards.
You're the one who HATES people. Not me. Hate filled people are heading for Hell fire! Do you even believe in Hell?
 
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Johann

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The gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing, please don't make a mockery of Gods Word. You cherry pick the bible, at your own peril. You're accusing God of hypocrisy and double standards.
My goodness!
You really believe we should hate our father and mother, children?

When interpreting the Bible, the decision to approach it literally or figuratively depends largely on the genre of the text, its context, and the intent of the author. The Bible includes different types of literature—history, poetry, prophecy, parables, and epistles—each of which may require a different approach. Here’s a guide to help discern whether to interpret passages literally or figuratively:

1. Literal Interpretation:
A literal interpretation means understanding the text in its plain, straightforward sense, taking the words at face value as they are presented.

Historical Narratives (e.g., Genesis, Exodus, the Gospels): These are generally understood literally, as they describe real events, people, and places. For example, the accounts of Jesus' life in the Gospels or the history of Israel in the Old Testament are taken to describe actual events.
Doctrinal and Ethical Teachings (e.g., Epistles of Paul): Teachings about salvation, Christian living, and doctrine are usually understood literally unless context indicates symbolism or metaphor. For instance, “love your neighbor as yourself” (Mark 12:31) is clearly a literal command.
Examples of Literal Interpretation:

The resurrection of Jesus (Luke 24) is a literal historical event.
The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20) are literal laws meant to be followed.
2. Figurative Interpretation:
A figurative interpretation applies when the text uses metaphors, symbols, parables, or poetic language to convey deeper or abstract meanings.

Poetry and Wisdom Literature (e.g., Psalms, Proverbs): These books often use figurative language to express spiritual truths, emotional experiences, or moral lessons. For example, in Psalm 23:1, "The Lord is my shepherd," the idea is not that God is literally a shepherd but that He cares for His people as a shepherd cares for his sheep.
Prophetic and Apocalyptic Literature (e.g., Daniel, Revelation): These genres often use symbolism and imagery to describe future events or spiritual realities. For instance, the beast in Revelation (Revelation 13:1-18) is typically understood as a symbol of a world power or a person, not a literal creature.
Parables (e.g., Luke 15:11-32 - the Parable of the Prodigal Son): Parables are stories Jesus used to illustrate spiritual lessons, often filled with figurative meaning. They are not meant to be taken literally but to teach moral or spiritual truths through fictional scenarios.
Examples of Figurative Interpretation:

Jesus as the “Lamb of God” (John 1:29): This is figurative language signifying Jesus as the sacrificial lamb who takes away the sin of the world.
The “Sword of the Spirit” (Ephesians 6:17): This refers to the Word of God, not a literal sword.
Principles for Deciding Literal vs. Figurative:
Context:

What is the immediate context of the passage? Look at the surrounding verses and the overall purpose of the book.
For instance, if the text is clearly written in a narrative or historical genre (e.g., Genesis 1), a literal interpretation is often appropriate. If the passage is prophetic or poetic (e.g., Psalms or Revelation), it is more likely figurative.
Genre:

Identify the genre of the text. Historical books are primarily literal. Poetry and prophecy often use figurative language.
Hebrew poetry (e.g., Psalms) is rich in metaphor and symbolism, requiring a figurative approach, while narrative sections (e.g., 1 Samuel) are usually literal.
Author’s Intent:

Ask what the author’s intent is. For example, did the author intend to convey a spiritual truth through symbolism, or are they recording an actual event? Jesus’ use of parables is clearly figurative because His intent was to teach lessons through symbolic stories.
Harmonizing with Scripture:

Does the interpretation align with the broader teaching of the Bible? Sometimes literal interpretations lead to theological problems or contradictions, so figurative interpretations provide a more harmonious understanding.
For example, Jesus’ statement, “I am the door” (John 10:9), is not to be understood literally as a wooden door, but figuratively as the way to salvation.
Cultural and Historical Background:

Understanding the culture and historical context of the time can help determine if something should be taken literally or figuratively. Ancient Eastern literature, for instance, is filled with symbolism and should be interpreted accordingly.

Literal Interpretation is used when the text clearly conveys factual history, commands, or doctrine, especially in narrative and epistolary genres.
Figurative Interpretation is used when the text contains symbolic language, parables, or prophecy, especially in poetic, prophetic, or apocalyptic genres.
The key is to discern the genre, context, and intent of the passage before deciding on an interpretive approach.
Balancing both methods ensures a responsible and meaningful engagement with Scripture.

And there are some here who think I have lost my marbles using the ancient hermeneutical approach to Scriptures-the donkey and 2 by four approach.
 
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Jack

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My goodness!
You really believe we should hate our father and mother, children?
I think he really believes that. If he hates his family he must hate everybody.
 
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