Is the story of Adam & Eve a parable?

[PGS11]

Its a tricky one it has to be there because it depicts the fall of mankind which is why everything happened.Without it the entire faith falls apart Jesus sacrifice would of been for nothing.You don't want to mess with it.Its in Islam and Judaism but they have no solution for it.Actually Judaism did have a solution to bring peace between man and God the covenant they made with God. If they had kept it I wonder would Judaism of been the world religion?But they couldn't keep it so Jesus had to come and you know the rest.

 

[RedFan]

Its a tricky one it has to be there because it depicts the fall of mankind which is why everything happened.Without it the entire faith falls apart Jesus sacrifice would of been for nothing.You don't want to mess with it.

I see it differently. I think you are correct that without the fall of mankind the entire faith falls apart and Jesus's sacrifice would have been pointless. But understanding precisely HOW the fall of mankind occurred -- as opposed to agreeing THAT it occurred -- is unnecessary.

 

[PGS11]

Well it will be extremely difficult for the modern world to accept the theology that has been followed for 2000 years were in a time when people will no longer be able to believe core Christianity.They will want Jesus without the sacrifice but there is no Jesus without the sacrifice.

 

[NotTheRock]

I see it differently. I think you are correct that without the fall of mankind the entire faith falls apart and Jesus's sacrifice would have been pointless. But understanding precisely HOW the fall of mankind occurred -- as opposed to agreeing THAT it occurred -- is unnecessary.

I believe that our fall was a part of God's plan and that the "why" is far more interesting than the "how".

 

[Aunty Jane]

I believe that our fall was a part of God's plan and that the "why" is far more interesting than the "how".

How can the fall be part of “God’s plan”, when a knowledge of evil was withheld under sentence of death?
If the fall was planned, then the pain and suffering of mankind was also planned…..that makes God the worst terrorist in history…..only satan could pull off such trickery, getting people to blame the Creator for something he did himself….and you fell for it?

God used the fall to teach us the value of obedience, but he did not cause it. As free willed beings, we choose our own destiny…..unfortunately, Adam chose the destiny for all of his children….Christ came to pay Adam’s debt, and to get us back to God and his original purpose for putting us here on planet Earth in the first place. Why are we here? If you don’t know that, then nothing will make a lick of sense.

“God is love”…..remember? Love was what the first humans had showered upon them in the beginning…..if they had simply obeyed God instead of satan, we would not be in this mess.
Sin is the cause of death…..no sin would have meant…..no death.

 

[Christian Soldier]

If GOD told me today that you and your buddy were on a deep sea fishing trip 20 years ago where you caught a 14 foot long Marlin, and then GOD told me tomorrow that it was 12 feet long, then GOD was mistaken one of those times! That's what it would mean. In my estimation, if the One GOD rather than two men related both stories -- as you insist He did in every case of contradictory Scriptural couplets -- then God's word contains errors. Not man's word. GOD'S word. That's what you are committing yourself to logically.

I suggest you allow for human error in Scripture, and back off this nonsense about inspired = inerrant.

No, the so called "errors" are no errors at all. They don't change or contradict anything, God ordained them to be in the bible to confuse unbelievers, and hide the truth from them. So anyone who doesn't accept that the Bible is Gods perfect Word, is counted as an infidel.

 

[RedFan]

No, the so called "errors" are no errors at all. They don't change or contradict anything, God ordained them to be in the bible to confuse unbelievers, and hide the truth from them.

God placed apparent contradictions in the Bible to confuse unbelievers, instead of eliminating contradictions to foster believers? Is that what you think? Man, I need some of whatever you're smoking!

 

[Christian Soldier]

God placed apparent contradictions in the Bible to confuse unbelievers, instead of eliminating contradictions to foster believers? Is that what you think? Man, I need some of whatever you're smoking!

Your reply reveals that you're unaware of the fact tha God deliberatley hides the truth from those which He didn't choose to save before He created the world.

Only Gods chosen people are given the gift of discernment, the Word of God is foolishness to those who are perishing. And God deliberatley revealed the truth by means which are considered foolish by all the wise guys.

Matt. 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes.

Mark 8:18 Having eyes, do you not see? And having ears, do you not hear.

1 Cor 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

2 Tim 4:3-7 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

I can unload a truck load of verses to prove that God hides the truth from those who He has not chosen to save. But I'll just leave you with those few to deal with for now.

 

[face2face]

How can the fall be part of “God’s plan”, when a knowledge of evil was withheld under sentence of death?

Christ was plan A not plan B Jane - this should be obvious to you given the two trees and the promise of Christ from the very beginning.

It's God's foreknowledge and determinate council, isn't it!

If the fall was planned, then the pain and suffering of mankind was also planned…..that makes God the worst terrorist in history…..only satan could pull off such trickery, getting people to blame the Creator for something he did himself….and you fell for it?

You say planned - the Word states faith must be tested and tested it was and sin entered the world as God knew would happen.

If you think two naïve creatures made from dust would be able to attain to the full and complete knowledge of good and evil without sin, you must not be able to appreciate the promise of the Lord Jesus Christ and his unique birth.

Say it with me Jane "Christ was plan A, not an afterthought!"

God used the fall to teach us the value of obedience, but he did not cause it.

He established all the circumstances to allow it to happen.

As free willed beings, we choose our own destiny…..unfortunately, Adam chose the destiny for all of his children….

Correct - the scene was perfectly set for free will to have its way with the first pair.

Christ came to pay Adam’s debt, and to get us back to God and his original purpose for putting us here on planet Earth in the first place. Why are we here? If you don’t know that, then nothing will make a lick of sense.

“God is love”…..remember?

His love is without question.

In testing the loyalty of Adam and Eve God would be able to select His own, those who choose to love Him and serve Him from their free will.

Love was what the first humans had showered upon them in the beginning…..if they had simply obeyed God instead of satan

The serpent Jane - an animal more cunning than all the beasts of the field.

You will get that eventually!

, we would not be in this mess.
Sin is the cause of death…..no sin would have meant…..no death.

Yep, the Law of Sin and Death was a given - Dust creatures with free will = sin

Which leads to Christ

Amen

F2F

 

[Wick Stick]

Is some of it symbolic, such as the talking snake?

Yes, I believe the snake is a symbol of wisdom - not God's wisdom, but human wisdom.

Adam's a literal person, but like most people in the early parts of the Bible, he also stands for ALL his descendants.

 

[Wick Stick]

...Understanding precisely HOW the fall of mankind occurred -- as opposed to agreeing THAT it occurred -- is unnecessary.

Yes. Even if the whole book of Genesis were omitted, we would still know that happens. All have sinned... and it's observable.

 

[RedFan]

Your reply reveals that you're unaware of the fact tha God deliberatley hides the truth from those which He didn't choose to save before He created the world.

Only Gods chosen people are given the gift of discernment, the Word of God is foolishness to those who are perishing

Deliberate hiding of the truth is not accomplished by Biblical contradictions -- which make one or the other an UNtruth. If you are one of "God's chosen people" who is "given the gift of discernment," kindly "discern" for me how a Biblical contradiction does anything less than make one or the other an UNtruth.

 

[PGS11]

Gods plan is to save humanity offering eternal life which was Gods plan from the beginning.God seem to know the first covenant would fail we see that when he asked Abraham to sacrifice his only son so the plan was already in the works then.I agree Jesus was always plan A.

 

[Jericho]

I find this discussion interesting.

That descent is tough for me to believe. The present day human race is too biologically and racially diverse to descend from Noah in the time allotted by the Torah.

Ethnically diverse, sure (we're all the same human race). Biologically diverse, not really. Beyond the superficial differences in hair, eye, and skin color, we're all pretty much the same biologically. It's the reason why two mixed races (really ethnicites) can produce offspring.

Ignoring the evidence of evolution is a perfect example of accepting the Bible "blindly," and I can't do that. Does this view make me a "disbeliever?"

Can you give an example for the evidence of evolution?

 

[PGS11]

It also was a secret of what Jesus was coming to do no one seemed to know except him.There were prophecies of his coming not what he was going to do. He ran into evil spirits and Satan himself and they were all clueless asking him why he came.By the time it was over it was was too late for them it was a absolute victory for Jesus.If you follow the gospel of John he tells us that Jesus is God and was there from the very beginning as the Word. First line in the Gospel of John.

 

[Wick Stick]

It also was a secret of what Jesus was coming to do no one seemed to know except him. There were prophecies of his coming not what he was going to do.

I disagree, at least partially.

The Zealots certainly got it wrong - they were looking for a Messiah to be a military leader to throw off Roman rule.

But the Essenes had it right - they were looking for a Messiah to abolish the corrupt priesthood, which DID happen. The Melchizedek scroll (part of the Dead Sea scrolls) writes about a messiah coming after the order of Melchizedek, which is also just what the book of Hebrews says about Jesus.

The Sadducees also understood that the Messiah would overthrow the priesthood. But they WERE that priesthood, and so they were trying to KILL Jesus to prevent that from happening.

The Pharisees were not priests, but they did hold positions of civil authority - the 'chair of Moses.' They either understood or at least suspected that the advent of a Messiah would mean the end of their positions and influence.

He ran into evil spirits and Satan himself and they were all clueless asking him why he came. By the time it was over it was was too late for them it was a absolute victory for Jesus.

Matthew 8:29 And, behold, [the demons] cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

It seems to me they knew what was coming, but they thought they had more time.

 

[TheHC]

You are making excuses by indulging improbable explanations

No, I’m giving you reasons to accept the text. The explanations are not improbable, when precedent is available.
Courts accept evidence that have precedent, all the time.

 

[RedFan]

Can you give an example for the evidence of evolution?

Chemical element dating. Dating

 

[Jericho]

Chemical element dating. Dating

What would that have to do with evolution?

 

[RedFan]

No, I’m giving you reasons to accept the text. The explanations are not improbable, when precedent is available.
Courts accept evidence that have precedent, all the time.

Where did you get your law degree? Courts accept evidence that (a) has some tendency in logic to make the matter in issue more or less probable, and (b) is subject to cross examination or, if hearsay, has some other basis for trustworthiness. Precedent has nothing to do with it. Courts accept precedent for LEGAL rulings ONLY.