Oddly OSAS

[Marymog]

Ezekiel 18:24 presents a dynamic which is at play today--but, today, "faith is counted as righteousness", so when He forgets righteousness today He forgets the person ever had faith at all, so they were never saved, whereas the saved never lose salvation.

Nope, not true. He does not forget that a person ever had faith. God doesn't have Alzheimer's.

Thank you for your time.

 

[GracePeace]

Nope, not true. One can have faith but still commit sins. And if you don't atone for those sins, you fall away from grace.

IF we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Even if I grant your premise, when you say they fall away from grace, if they fall away irretrievably, their righteousness of faith is forgotten, and they were never saved.

 

[GracePeace]

1 John 2:19 KJV
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Those who go out never were truly in.

Much love!

Yes, those who go out were never of us because their righteousness of faith is forgotten.

 

[Marymog]

Ezekiel 18:24 presents a dynamic which is at play today--but, today, "faith is counted as righteousness", so when He forgets righteousness today He forgets the person ever had faith at all, so they were never saved, whereas the saved never lose salvation.

You didn't answer my question:

Where do any of those verses say that "faith is counted as righteousness"?

 

[GracePeace]

Nope, not true. He does not forget that a person ever had faith. God doesn't have Alzheimer's.

Thank you for your time.

Why is it "either God has Alzheimer's or He has a good memory"?
Doesn't God say He will "remember" our sins no more (Jer 31:31-34)?
That doesn't mean God has a bad memory does it?
If He says He forgets sins, and He forgets righteousness, I believe it.

 

[GracePeace]

You didn't answer my question:

Where do any of those verses say that "faith is counted as righteousness"?

Romans 4:5

 

[GracePeace]

You didn't answer my question.

Much love!

You are kinda funny.
What you do is you take things in tiny, tiny contexts--ie, take them out of context--and then project that onto the whole of Scripture. I'm not saying you're unsaved--obviously--but if I took your view I would be without answers to so many verses.

 

[Marymog]

Even if I grant your premise, when you say they fall away from grace, if they fall away irretrievably, their righteousness of faith is forgotten, and they were never saved.

This is the only way a Christian can fall away "irretrievably": I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

Where does that passage say that God forgot their faith?

 

[Marymog]

Romans 4:5

You quoted Ezekial and alleged that it said, "faith is counted as righteousness". Clearly it doesn't.

Mary

 

[marks]

Yes, those who go out were never of us because their righteousness of faith is forgotten.

Doublethink. I'm just not interested in that level of discussion.

Much love!

 

[GracePeace]

You didn't answer my question.

Much love!

You are kinda funny.
What you do is you take things in tiny, tiny contexts--ie, take them out of context--and then project that onto the whole of Scripture. I'm not saying you're unsaved--obviously--but if I took your view I would be without answers to so many verses.

You tried this with Heb 3 before--you said "'we have become partakers of Christ IF we endure to the end' means true believers remain, and if you fall away you were never a partaker of Christ"... but the entire passage is all about starting well but ending badly... again, the partaking of Christ "unbecomes" if you do not endure... such that those who partake always endure.

 

[GracePeace]

You quoted Ezekial and alleged that it said, "faith is counted as righteousness". Clearly it doesn't.

Mary

Sorry. Please quote me ever having said that.

 

[Marymog]

Why is it "either God has Alzheimer's or He has a good memory"?
Doesn't God say He will "remember" our sins no more (Jer 31:31-34)?
That doesn't mean God has a bad memory does it?
If He says He forgets sins, and He forgets righteousness, I believe it.

Nothing you just wrote has ANYTHING to do with God forgetting that we had faith.

Thanks for your opinion......Mary

 

[marks]

You are kinda funny.
What you do is you take things in tiny, tiny contexts--ie, take them out of context--and then project that onto the whole of Scripture. I'm not saying you're unsaved--obviously--but if I took your view I would be without answers to so many verses.

I believe what I read. I'm guessing then that your answer is then, Yes, I believe that passage, but only with my unwritten caveats.

Much love!

 

[GracePeace]

This is the only way a Christian can fall away "irretrievably": I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

Where does that passage say that God forgot their faith?

IDK if the Christians mentioned in Heb 6 committed that sin, but it says they cannot be brought back to repentance... so they are distinct from the Galatians, whom Paul seeks to restore.

Irrespectively, if their faith counted as righteousness is forgotten, they are no longer in the saved category but in the never known category.

 

[GracePeace]

I believe what I read. I'm guessing then that your answer is then, Yes, I believe that passage, but only with my unwritten caveats.

Much love!

If "unwritten caveats" means "context", yes.

 

[Marymog]

Sorry. Please quote me ever having said that.

YOUR OPENING POST: (their faith counted as righteousness is forgotten (Ez 18:24),

 

[GracePeace]

YOUR OPENING POST: (their faith counted as righteousness is forgotten (Ez 18:24),

That was never intended as a statement that Ezekiel says faith is counted as righteousness, I only cited Ez 18:24, and not Ro 4, because "faith counted as righteousness" is already known, whereas the dynamic from Ezekiel isn't as well known.

 

[Marymog]

That was never intended as a statement that Ezekiel says faith is counted as righteousness, I only cited Ez 18:24, and not Ro 4, because "faith counted as righteousness" is already known, whereas the dynamic from Ezekiel isn't as well known.

It appears as a statement to me.

 

[GracePeace]

I believe what I read. I'm guessing then that your answer is then, Yes, I believe that passage, but only with my unwritten caveats.

Much love!

Do you believe God forgets righteousness? LOL That that might have anything to do with being blotted out of the Book of Life?