Why many Christians will be deceived by Satan

[Hobie]

Dear AuntyJane,
Your understanding of "free will" is incorrect. Free will is having the ability to make choices that are free of divine intervention. Scripture strongly teaches that Christ intervenes in all our choices.

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Prov 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Isa 26:12 O Jehovah, thou appointest peace to us, for, all our works also thou hast wrought for us.

Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

Verses that say to make a "choice" do not mean that mankind has a free will ability to do so. You are adding that to the scripture.

The Old Covenant of Law was given to prove that mankind cannot ever be good enough by their own works. When a fallen away believer realizes this truth, it will be their schoolmaster to lead them to the New Covenant where Christ will do all the works through them. Only in this way can we be acceptable to God.

As for those who are "deserving", they are the ones who have the Early Rain of the Spirit. The Apostles were sent out to find those people and present the Gospel to them. Those who were not given the Early Rain of the Spirit will only reject the Gospel so Christ told the Apostles to move on to another place.

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

John 1:12 But as many as received him (those who were given the Early Rain of the Spirit), to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, BUT OF GOD.

You need to add to your beliefs what these two scriptures above teach. At present, they are void from your understanding.

What I explained above is how it works even up to this day and that is why the foolishness of preaching is necessary - only those who have had their hearts prepared by the Early Rain of the Spirit will make a confession of faith. All others will continue to reject Christ.

You say that I ignore a lot of scripture but I have not. It is your misunderstanding of how God works within mankind that causes you to think so. Christ purposely teaches His truth "here a little and there a little". A person MUST put the pieces of scripture together to understand the truth of God.

Psa 119:160 The sum of your word is truth, and every one of your righteous rules endures forever.

The carnal mind of man will automatically fill in the missing pieces of truth from their preconceived beliefs just as you are doing to support your false belief in mankind's free will ability. The verses you quoted are ALL silent on whether or not the choice that is made is free of God's intervention. To fill in that missing part of those verses, you must look at other scripture like the ones I presented above.

God does not operate in this world as the carnal mind believes He should.

As for doing good works; yes, we are to do good works and follow Christ's commandments of loving God and our neighbors. But when we do these things, it is Christ who is doing them through us. This is actually the way it happens. Christ deserves all the credit and the glory.

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Rev 4:10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

The phrase "twenty four elders" is a spiritual symbol which represents all the Elect. When they cast their crowns before Christ, they are acknowledging that Christ is 100% responsible for who they have become (including their good works).

If a believer does not do good works, it is only because Christ as directed their steps to not do them. They are Christ's workmanship. Think about that for a minute. We act only in the manner that Christ causes us to act. We have no works that we can claim as our own.

Consider this verse:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

This scripture directly contradicts your foundational beliefs.

With your beliefs, those who make the "right" choice in following Christ absolutely have something they can boast about to those who reject Christ. In your mind, you have to believe that you are smarter, wiser or just not has evil as the others, and therefore, you deserve salvation when the others do not. This is what scripture calls filthy rags because it is void of faith.

When you read scriptures, you should not add to them things that fit into your preexisting beliefs. Look to other scripture to fill in the parts that the verse in question is silent on. Take this verse you quoted:

"For we actually become partakers of the Christ only if we hold firmly down to the end the confidence we had at the beginning.”

Our ability to "hold firmly to the end" is given to us and is caused by Christ (to will and do of His good pleasure). You are adding to the verse your belief in your own works to accomplish "holding firm", rather that trusting Christ to make you hold firm. You have no ability to do anything a part from Christ causing it to happen. You should be at rest (the spiritual fulfillment of the Sabbath Day law) but with your beliefs, you are still working.

As for OSAS, all believers will fall away and lose their salvation shortly AFTER they have been given the Early Rain of the Spirit. The verses that teach about falling away only apply to these believers (babes). They are the "many" who make up the 2,000 different denominations/sects of Christianity in the world. They are the apostate church. None of the churches are following Christ. They are following Satan because they all mix works with faith. This is the crooked way of the crooked serpent.

But after Christ gives a chosen believer the Latter Rain of the Spirit, followed by judgment (this is conversion), Christ will not allow them to ever fall away again.

Falling away only happens when a believer mixes their own works with faith. That is the ONLY sin that leads to death (loss of salvation). After a believer is converted, they cannot fall away again because Christ has increased their faith which causes them to fully trust in Him to direct their steps only on the path of righteousness. Any other sin will be dealt with by Christ from His continued teaching of truth to them and by His chastisement. Once the converted believer has become a "perfect man" of full age (fully matured son of God), they will be like Christ who does not ever sin. Don't confuse "sin in general" with the sin of mixing works with faith.

Until Christ comes to a fallen away believer a second time and pours out the Latter Rain of the Spirit, they will remain in an apostate condition. They have no free will ability to change it. In this age, Christ only returns to the chosen Elect. The "many" who have only received the Early Rain of the Spirit will remain in their lost condition until they die. This happens solely to satisfy the purposes of God - just as the conversion of the Elect satisfies the purposes of God. Christ is in full control of everything that happens within His creation. You should not believe differently.

Joe

So when Eve took the fruit from the snake was it freewill?

 

[FaithWillDo]

So when Eve took the fruit from the snake was it freewill?

Dear Hobie,
No. Adam and Eve did not have a free will and neither does any of their offspring.

Christ plainly tells us that He is the one who caused Eve to sin. It didn't happen by chance or by her supposed free will ability.

Ecc 1:13 An experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

Prov 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Lam 3:38 Out of the mouth of the Most High doth not there proceed evil and good?

Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?
the LORD.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Isa 44:18 They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.

Prov 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

It is a lie of the apostate church that mankind has any free will ability. Only God the Father has a free will and it rules supreme over mankind's "will'.

I have shown you these scriptures before and you rejected the truth that they teach. Has anything changed for you?

Joe

 

[Aunty Jane]

So when Eve took the fruit from the snake was it freewill?

How could it not be?
Every action of each rebel in Eden was an abuse of their free will. They were not created to sin, but free will meant that they could sin if they chose to. They were not robots, but created in God’s image…freewill is part of that.
The devil could not have rebelled unless he abused his free will.
Eve could not have disobeyed God after the devil lied to her, if she did not exercise free will….…
…..and Adam likewise had choices in his decision to join her.

If all three had simply obeyed God, we would not have ever been subjected to sin and death….and the dire consequences of alienation from God. He has allowed these consequences to teach us the value of obedience because we live in a world where God and his standards have been thrown out as unnecessary and outdated. Soon Jehovah will bring back his first purpose, and restore all that we have lost…..but heaven was never a destination meant for humans.

 

[face2face]

The devil could not have rebelled unless he abused his free will.

The serpent was an expression of the carnal mind - it didnt rebel as it cannot know moral goodness it can only speak as it perceives with its eyes.

@Hobie if you read the exchange between the serpent and Eve you will see the serpent made observations of the first pair and the angels who were teaching them.

If you want to understand the carnal mind it is an expression used by Paul; or rather, it is the translation of the words used by him, in his epistle to the Romans. It is not so explicit as the original. The words he wrote are to phronema tes sarkos, the thinking of the flesh. In this phrase, he intimates to us that the flesh is the thinking substance, that is, the brain; which, in another place, he terms, 'the fleshly tablet of the heart'.

Aunty Janes knows this very well but has been deceived into thinking something more sinister is at play behind the serpent, when in fact, it was after all, as discribed in Genesis 3 an animal more shrewd or cunning of all the animals God had made.

Hope that helps

F2F

 

[face2face]

So when Eve took the fruit from the snake was it freewill?

Hi Hobie

Notice how Eve adopted the serpents thinking when she "reached forth"

She saw:

(1)"That the tree was good for food" — The lust of the flesh aroused.

(2)"And that it was pleasant to the eyes" — The "lust of the eyes." or "a desire to the eyes".

(3) "And a tree to be desired to make one wise" — The pride of life.

"She took of the fruit ..."

2:16 because all that is in the world (the (1) desire of the flesh and the (2) desire of the eyes and the (3) arrogance (pride of life) produced by material possessions) is not from the Father, but is from the world. 1 Jn 2:16.

Eve took possession of carnal thinking and it now had dominion in her mind. The rest of Genesis 3 is about how God will put down Flesh's dominion and bring the Spirit into it's rightful place.

F2F

 

[Christian Soldier]

o what does it say of how Christ will return, Gods Word tells us..

“And when He had spoken these things, while they beheld, He was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they were looking steadfastly toward Heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; which also said, 'Ye men of Galilee; why stand ye gazing up into Heaven? This same Jesus which is taken up from you into Heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into Heaven'.Acts 1:9-l l.

Jesus was taken up into heaven by a cloud, and He will return in the clouds. The clouds refer to the angels of God that surround Him. Jesus Himself promised that He would return with the clouds (the angels).

“And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” Matthew 24:30

“When the Son of man shall come in His glory and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory.” Matthew 25:31

The glory of Christ's coming surpasses anything we can imagine. He will return in the glory of His angels, and that of the Godhead:

“...when He shall come in His own glory, and in His Father's and of the holy angels.” Luke 9:26

The Second Coming will be universally visible..

“Behold He cometh with clouds, and every eye shall see Him”... Revelation 1:7

We could go on and on, but the point is we must study Gods Word and know its truth, because it sanctifies us as it is the truth from Christ, it has His power to cleanse us, it has His power to save us. It is His truth, which keeps us from Satans deception..

All of that is well and good, but there are two major problems with it. The first mistake you made is your title is not true. You say Christians will be deceived by Satan but God said it's impossible to deceive a Christian. So that's the first problem.

The second big problem is with your closing statement, you say "we must study God's Word, because it has the power to save us". I'm sure you don't mean that and you just said it because you didn't think before you sated it.

I'm sure you don't believe that Gods saves people, based on their ability to understand the Bible. We know that most Christians (Sheep) rely on our Shepherd to tell us what the Bible is saying. A shepherd is qualified because He has spent years studying the Bible in Seminary.

God doesn't expect a dumb sheep like me to interpret the bible correctly, that's why He appoints shepherds, to teach us.

The other thing to consider is, you don't need to read a single word of the bible to be saved. Jesus didn't say, "read the bible and you shall be saved" He said "if you believe in Me you shall be saved" and the "if" there is not a comandment. He's not saying "you must believe in me" He's simply saying if you believe, that means you already believe or you already don't believe.

In any case, just consider that the vast ,majority of people in heaven never read a singe word of the bible. Because the bible wasn't even available to the public until recent times. So how do you explain the fact that all of those people got into heaven without using your formular.
The thief on the cross was saved in the final moments of his life, he never got a chance to crack the bible code and discover the correct interpretation, for God to reward him for being a wise guy. There is only one condition to salvation, your name must be in Gods book of life. You must be one of Gods elect, or you will never be saved. That takes salvation out of your hands and gives it to God, I know must Christians hate this truth but that's just the way it is.

 

[bro.tan]

We see Christ laying down what will happen at the Second Coming and the signs and events to watch for...

Matthew 24 King James Version (KJV)
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand.
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Take a close look at one verse especially..
“For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."
Matthew 24:24

Christ repeatedly gave warnings against deception. From what He says in this chapter, these warnings seem to constitute a greater sign of the climax of the ages than any other sign given, with the exception of the worldwide preaching of the gospel. His disciples questioned Him, "When shall these things be?" In reply Christ opened His discourse on the destruction of Jerusalem and the end of the world with a strong warning against deception. His first remark was " Take heed that no man deceive you." in verse 4. Christ connected His warning against deception, not just with the events we would see, but with the spiritual realm.

Satan has set about to plan the last great deception of man. "Jesus is going to come so he must find a way to deceive the world. He is planning a great, masterful delusion to falsify the coming of Christ. Satan wants every man, woman, and child to be duped by the persuasive powers is his plan. And the Bible says it will succeed with everyone, that is, except those who have built a firm foundation upon the Scriptures. The devil is planning one last massive attack against man. The Bible speaks of it.
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves" (Matt. 7:15). "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light" 2 Cor. 11:14.

In Revelation is a description of one last great deception where all the world will be deceived except one small group, the very elect, those who seek put the truth from Christ in their hearts and minds and will go into Gods kingdom.

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Let's go into Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Think about it, how does he deceive the whole world? Which means me, you and everyone else has been deceive at some point for the scriptures did not say he deceive some of the world, or part of the world, but the whole world. Let's take a look and see how Satan used his power with these kingdoms. Let's go into Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. This places are the church, brothers and sisters. Let's go into Luke 22:52 Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders, which were come to him, Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves? 53 When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.

Did you notice it was the church people who came to arrest Jesus? They did the bidding for there "father" the Devil. I know that ye are Abraham’s seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it (John 8:37-44)

See, spiritual wickness is in the pulpits of the church, which is the highest place on the earth. The church is the true government that governs the earth. The men in the postitons of feeding the flock teaches the lies of the Devil, they deceive the people into worshiping another Jesus. Paul said in 2Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. Now any Christian in their right mind wouldn’t dare say that it’s okay to steal, kill or commit adultery or break any of the other seven commandments. But when it comes to the fourth commandment, people avoid it like a plague! They are either uninformed about which day is the Sabbath day of the God of the Bible or they are just following the tradition of religion that was passed down through the family or maybe they have let some preacher give them other excuses for ignoring God’s true day of worship. But this is one of Satan's master deception.

 

[quietthinker]

Why many Christians will be deceived by Satan​

Many??....what about self?

 

[Hobie]

How could it not be?
Every action of each rebel in Eden was an abuse of their free will. They were not created to sin, but free will meant that they could sin if they chose to. They were not robots, but created in God’s image…freewill is part of that.
The devil could not have rebelled unless he abused his free will.
Eve could not have disobeyed God after the devil lied to her, if she did not exercise free will….…
…..and Adam likewise had choices in his decision to join her.

If all three had simply obeyed God, we would not have ever been subjected to sin and death….and the dire consequences of alienation from God. He has allowed these consequences to teach us the value of obedience because we live in a world where God and his standards have been thrown out as unnecessary and outdated. Soon Jehovah will bring back his first purpose, and restore all that we have lost…..but heaven was never a destination meant for humans.

Very true Aunty, except that till the New Jerusalem comes down after the 1000 years, Heaven will be our home..

 

[PGS11]

The one way to identify the Antichrist is he will take a fatal wound and seem to be resurrected and the world will be in awe of this resurrection bowing down to him thinking he is the savior.He will pretend to be the savior of the world and many will follow thinking he can resurrect them also.We know no savior is to come he already did and died for our sins you shouldn't even take a second look it will all be lies.
We should never be in awe of another human being to treat them as God.Bow down to no man bow down to the Lord Jesus only he is the only true savior.But the bible says many will be fooled and follow him.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Very true Aunty, except that till the New Jerusalem comes down after the 1000 years, Heaven will be our home.

Like the old Jerusalem, the “new Jerusalem” will be the seat of God’s worship and the location of his holy Temple…..neither will be on earth. What is seen coming down from heaven is the rulership of God’s Kingdom. It rules from heaven over earthly subjects as it states in Rev 21:2-4…

”I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

God’s “tent” or tabernacle was the place where his high priest entered the “most holy” compartment to commune with Jehovah before the sacred ark and to receive his instructions. The tent was earthly but the instruction came from heaven. God was “with” his people Israel, by means of his representatives on earth and only in a structure that he himself designed and sanctified.

The 1000 year reign of Christ is to restore humanity back to their original sinless state, so that they can live the life that God intended for them to live in the beginning, before their fall. (Isa 55:11)

What was God’s first purpose for mankind? Were they ever promised heaven as a destination? No Jew was ever promised that. Their belief in the coming Kingdom of God was entirely earthly…..they saw themselves as “the royal priesthood and a holy nation” that was foretold.

Ex 19:5-6…Through Moses God told his people….
”Now therefore, if you will indeed obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession among all peoples, for all the earth is mine; and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you shall speak to the people of Israel.” (ESV)

But this promise was conditional “IF you obey my voice…and keep my covenant” this would be their destiny.
But we know that Israel’s history was anything but obedience to God’s commands and the conditions of his covenant were often broken, invalidating it. But true to his purpose, God kept his nation in existence until he had fulfilled his part of the promise made to Abraham…to produce the seed who would save the world from their sins.

After they had produced the Messiah, and it’s leaders had wickedly orchestrated his murder, God abandoned that nation to the world, (Matt 23:37-39) where we see them to this day as enemies of Christ and his disciples.…and as bloodguilty before God in the deaths of innocent ones caught up in wars that God never sanctioned. There is no “holy land” anymore because it is polluted with blood. No one with innocent blood on their hands can serve the true God. (Isa 1:15)
There is no Temple either, because the true Temple is in heaven where it cannot be contaminated by sinful men.

At the end of the 1000 years, the devil will be “let loose for a little while” to test all humanity one last time, (Rev 20:1-3) before he and his minions join the wicked and disobedient ”goats” in the lake of fire, where they are forever destroyed. (Matt 25:41)

Only then will “everlasting life” be returned to humankind on earth as it was meant to be in the beginning.
God selects the “joint heirs” of his son for rulership positions in the heavenly Kingdom so that through their priesthood, mankind can be brought back into reconciliation with God by the removal of all sin. (Rev 20:6) That is what the 1000 years is for…the rehabilitation of the human race and a regeneration of the planet in undoing all that the devil has guided wicked humans to accomplish.

God’s first purpose for this earth and its inhabitants will be restored…..why would he take us to heaven when he had paradise conditions on earth for humans to enjoy forever ?
Where did Jesus promise the evildoer hung alongside him that he would be with him? It was in paradise…not heaven.
The resurrection that Jesus foretold was a restoration of life in the flesh…a life that in the garden of Eden originally had provision made so that mortal humans could live forever as long as they were obedient. (Gen 3:22-24) “The tree of life” became off limits only after sin entered into mankind.

Jesus made redemption possible by paying the ransom demanded under God’s perfect law. He died in our place, and the life he saved for us will yet be lived with everlasting life in the restoration of paradise on earth.

What will the future hold after that remains to be seen, but we first have to get there…..and the only way we can do that is by doing what Israel failed to do….to obey God in all things.

 

[Aunty Jane]

The one way to identify the Antichrist is he will take a fatal wound and seem to be resurrected and the world will be in awe of this resurrection bowing down to him thinking he is the savior.

Do you have Scripture to back up what you say? Is this referring to Gen 3:15 by any chance?

He will pretend to be the savior of the world and many will follow thinking he can resurrect them also.

Scripture?

We know no savior is to come he already did and died for our sins you shouldn't even take a second look it will all be lies.
We should never be in awe of another human being to treat them as God. Bow down to no man bow down to the Lord Jesus only he is the only true savior. But the bible says many will be fooled and follow him.

Can you explain by Scripture what the “mark of the beast” is….and how it will lead disobedient ones to their everlasting death?
Who or what is the “wild beast” and what is its “mark”? Who or what is the “image of the wild beast”?
Can you tell us using the Bible instead of an opinion as to how these things will occur? The world is full of opinions….so which interpretation is correct?

 

[MatthewG]

bump.

 

[David in NJ]

We see Christ laying down what will happen at the Second Coming and the signs and events to watch for...

Matthew 24 King James Version (KJV)
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand.
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Take a close look at one verse especially..
“For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."
Matthew 24:24

Christ repeatedly gave warnings against deception. From what He says in this chapter, these warnings seem to constitute a greater sign of the climax of the ages than any other sign given, with the exception of the worldwide preaching of the gospel. His disciples questioned Him, "When shall these things be?" In reply Christ opened His discourse on the destruction of Jerusalem and the end of the world with a strong warning against deception. His first remark was " Take heed that no man deceive you." in verse 4. Christ connected His warning against deception, not just with the events we would see, but with the spiritual realm.

Satan has set about to plan the last great deception of man. "Jesus is going to come so he must find a way to deceive the world. He is planning a great, masterful delusion to falsify the coming of Christ. Satan wants every man, woman, and child to be duped by the persuasive powers is his plan. And the Bible says it will succeed with everyone, that is, except those who have built a firm foundation upon the Scriptures. The devil is planning one last massive attack against man. The Bible speaks of it.
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves" (Matt. 7:15). "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light" 2 Cor. 11:14.

In Revelation is a description of one last great deception where all the world will be deceived except one small group, the very elect, those who seek put the truth from Christ in their hearts and minds and will go into Gods kingdom.

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

#1 Lie in the churches today is 'pre-trib rapture'

 

[CC7799]

Hello, Stash.

Many will be deceived in the latter days, but the 7,000 very Elect will never bow a knee to Baal when the Antichrist sets himself up in Jerusalem claiming to be God.

But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

- Romans 11:4 (KJV)

I agree.

 

[Hobie]

Dear Hobie,
No. Adam and Eve did not have a free will and neither does any of their offspring.

Christ plainly tells us that He is the one who caused Eve to sin. It didn't happen by chance or by her supposed free will ability.

Ecc 1:13 An experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

Prov 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Lam 3:38 Out of the mouth of the Most High doth not there proceed evil and good?

Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?
the LORD.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Isa 44:18 They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.

Prov 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

It is a lie of the apostate church that mankind has any free will ability. Only God the Father has a free will and it rules supreme over mankind's "will'.

I have shown you these scriptures before and you rejected the truth that they teach. Has anything changed for you?

Joe

So you cannot then choose to follow the truth or God then, and have stayed in the bondage of sin and iniquity and its consequences in the lake of fire..

 

[Taken]

You ignore one very important statement Jesus said: "If it were possible" and though we may succumb to lies for a time- we cannot stay deceived- The Holy Spirit will not allow it!

TRUE…on Judgement day, WHEN the Judge Appears….ALL will stand before Him, and “ BELIEVE …bow down to Him…

However…ALL will NOT be saved….TIMING…
They did not believe, as required, BEFORE their bodily death.

So;
1) all shall know the truth and believe & bow down in worship unto Him, fulfilling Scripture:

2) all will not be saved and rather some shall be damned.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[FaithWillDo]

So you cannot then choose to follow the truth or God then, and have stayed in the bondage of sin and iniquity and its consequences in the lake of fire..

Dear Hobie,
God's Word says that Christ created mankind with a marred spirit. As a result of this marred spirit, mankind became carnally minded and sinful (subject to vanity). In this condition, mankind is said to be the children of the devil who CANNOT understand and receive the truth of God or ever stop sinning.

Because the child of the devil sins, the child of the devil is "condemned already" (John 3:18). Nothing can stop the children of the devil from perishing. For that reason, we must be born again as a new creation.

To correct mankind's spiritual flaws, the Father sent Christ into the world to change mankind from being a child of the devil into being a child of God. This spiritual work is called conversion and is what it means to be "born again".

After Christ converts a person, they will then understand & receive the truth of God and will no longer be carnally minded and sinful.

The spiritual work of conversion can only be accomplished by Christ. Mankind has no ability to contribute anything toward their own conversion. They can't even repent of their works or have any faith in Christ until Christ gives them this ability by the free gift of the Spirit.

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Mankind is totally at the mercy of Christ to save us.

To convert the people who were blessed to be saved in the early harvest of mankind, Christ will come to them at a time of His choosing and freely give them the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit, followed by His judgment.

The Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit will give the Elect person their new birth. Christ's judgment will then follow and will destroy all the things within the person which has caused them to be carnally minded and sinful. This judgment will result in the death of the child of the devil and will satisfy the penalty of the law of sin and death. After Christ has completed His spiritual work within the Elect person, they will be like Christ. This is what it means to be saved.

And because Christ loves all mankind, He has promised to save all mankind. God is not a respecter of persons and will not exclude anyone from His free gift of salvation.

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one (Adam) judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one (Christ) the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

1Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

What I have just presented above is the true Gospel (Good News) of Christ and is what Christ's witnesses in this world (the Elect) are commanded to teach.

1Tim 4:10 For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, specially of those that believe. 11 These things command and teach.

Joe

 

[Taken]

Dear Hobie,
God's Word says that Christ created mankind with a marred spirit. As a result of this marred spirit, mankind became carnally minded and sinful (subject to vanity). In this condition, mankind is said to be the children of the devil who CANNOT understand and receive the truth of God or ever stop sinning.

Because the child of the devil sins, the child of the devil is "condemned already" (John 3:18). Nothing can stop the children of the devil from perishing. For that reason, we must be born again as a new creation.

To correct mankind's spiritual flaws, the Father sent Christ into the world to change mankind from being a child of the devil into being a child of God. This spiritual work is called conversion and is what it means to be "born again".

After Christ converts a person, they will then understand & receive the truth of God and will no longer be carnally minded and sinful.

The spiritual work of conversion can only be accomplished by Christ. Mankind has no ability to contribute anything toward their own conversion. They can't even repent of their works or have any faith in Christ until Christ gives them this ability by the free gift of the Spirit.

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Mankind is totally at the mercy of Christ to save us.

To convert the people who were blessed to be saved in the early harvest of mankind, Christ will come to them at a time of His choosing and freely give them the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit, followed by His judgment.

The Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit will give the Elect person their new birth. Christ's judgment will then follow and will destroy all the things within the person which has caused them to be carnally minded and sinful. This judgment will result in the death of the child of the devil and will satisfy the penalty of the law of sin and death. After Christ has completed His spiritual work within the Elect person, they will be like Christ. This is what it means to be saved.

Excellent commentary.

And because Christ loves all mankind, He has promised to save all mankind. God is not a respecter of persons and will not exclude anyone from His free gift of salvation.

Disagree in part.
Yes Christ loves all mankind.
No there is no promise to SAVE all mankind.
The promise is the Offering to the whole world they can FREELY TAKE his offering, it is not a Gift any individual is FORCED to TAKE.

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one (Adam) judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one (Christ) the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

1Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

ALL “shall” be MADE Alive…
Every departed (out of dead body’s) soul ARE LIVING SOULS.
Every LIVING soul SHALL return to its BODY, and their BODY rise up.
(Some bodys shall rise in glory, some bodys shall rise in damnation)….
However ALL risen body’s shall SEE the Lord, stand before the Judge….AND BELIEVE, AND bow down and worship Him.

(Then is the prophecy fulfilled….)

Isa 45:
[23] I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Will? Desire? Force? “ALL” men saved?
Saved….TO?
Or
Saved….FROM?
Or both…

Those raised up IN Glory, willingly gave their most precious possession (Their body, it’s LIFE (blood)) unto the Lord God as a testimony of their True heartful Belief…

Those who bodily died “against their will”, “against the Lord God”….freely, willingly GAVE what to the Lord God?

How would their NAME , (being against God) remain in the BOOK of Life?

Matt 12:
[30] He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

What I have just presented above is the true Gospel (Good News) of Christ and is what Christ's witnesses in this world (the Elect) are commanded to teach.

1Tim 4:10 For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, specially of those that believe. 11 These things command and teach.

Saved TO?
Saved FROM?

I trust ALL who ARE or SHALL be soul saved….shall be ALSO spirit quickened and LIFE FOREVER with the Lord God…

I trust ALL who ARE not or SHALL not be soul saved….shall ALSO not be “spirit quickened”, And THUS….SAVED FROM Being eternally ALIVE but separated from God in the Lake of Fire, (where unfaithful fallen eternally alive Celestial spirits AGAINST God shall exist)

Additionally…in consideration of numerous scriptural WARNINGS…
WHY ?
Why teach belief, confession, submission IF at the end “ALL” are saved…willingly and forcefully? Making Damnation and Separation from God a HOAX?

God bless you,
Glory to God,
Taken

 

[FaithWillDo]

Excellent commentary.



Disagree in part.
Yes Christ loves all mankind.
No there is no promise to SAVE all mankind.
The promise is the Offering to the whole world they can FREELY TAKE his offering, it is not a Gift any individual is FORCED to TAKE.

Dear Taken,
Scripture teaches that no man has a desire to seek out God (the true God) nor can they understand the truth of God.

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

And not only that, each person's carnal mind hates the things of God and will never submit to Him.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Because mankind is in this wicked & sinful condition, Christ was sent to change mankind into a new creation who is spiritually like God.

After Christ has given the Spirit to a person, their heart and mind will be changed. This is when a person bows to the knee and calls Jesus "Lord". It is only this unforced confession of faith that will give the Father glory. In fact, scripture says that only when a person is governed by the Spirit can they make this confession of faith. This confession of faith is the evidence of their having become a new creation.

You asked:
Why teach belief, confession, submission IF at the end “ALL” are saved…willingly and forcefully? Making Damnation and Separation from God a HOAX?

It seems you do not understand salvation. Mankind's salvation is to be converted from a child of the devil (who is condemned already) and into a child of God who does not sin. This is the work that the Father sent Christ to do in every person who has ever lived (all who have died in Adam).

Rom 5:18 so then as it was by one offence towards all men to condemnation, so by one righteousness towards all men for justification of life. 19 For as indeed by the disobedience of the one man the many have been constituted sinners, so also by the obedience of the one the many will be constituted righteous.

It is only your false belief in man's free will ability that causes you to believe that Christ cannot succeed in saving the world. But after Christ gives each person the Holy Spirit, the only thing they will do when presented the truth is to make a confession of faith in Christ. They will not be able to reject Christ any longer.

You really don't believe this verse below:

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Christ will give this free gift of the Holy Spirit to every person who has ever lived but only at a time of His choosing. In this age, Christ is ONLY saving the people who were chosen for this blessing from the foundation of the world. They are the Elect and the First Fruits of the harvest. They are NOT the full harvest.

The Elect start out life just as carnal and sinful as anyone else. But because Christ comes to them and does His spiritual work within them, their hearts and minds are changed as a result. Christ is not working to save anyone else at this time.

However, in the final age while the balance of mankind is being judged by Christ in the Lake of Fire (a symbol for Christ's judgment), Christ will "bless His enemies" by pouring out His love and mercy upon them before they perish. His love and mercy will come to them as the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit - just as the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit were freely given to the Elect. It is the Spirit that will give them their faith and their new birth. The child of the devil will remain under judgment until he is destroyed. This death will satisfy the penalty of sin.

These verses apply:

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

The process of conversion is happening now to the Elect and it will happen to the rest of mankind in the final age. After the last person is saved, mankind will cease to exist but the Kingdom of Heaven will be that much fuller. Only this result of Christ's work will give the Father glory. The confession of faith that each person makes is a result of their being spiritually converted. It is not forced because Christ changed each person's heart and mind to be like His. It was a free gift and it was given to them because of His grace.

Joe