The Way/Theosis/entire sanctification.
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Interesting.
I appreciate your point about scripture conveying deep spiritual truths to our inner man. The Bible is indeed rich with metaphor, imagery, and symbolism that speaks to the heart and spirit. At the same time, I also think there are moments where the literal meaning plays an important role in understanding God’s word, especially when it comes to historical events or specific teachings. It seems to me that a balance of both approaches—recognizing the spiritual layers while also respecting the clear, literal meanings—helps us grasp the full depth of scripture. What are your thoughts on how to discern when to interpret something literally versus spiritually?
The details aren't important. His strength (power) is made perfect in our WEAKNESS (softness, pliableness, yieldedness), not in our strength. And that way too, He gets the glory (is glorified) and not us.
Spiritually discerned brother. By the Spirit. Comparing spiritual with spiritual. Revealed to little children, and hid from the wise and learned, so we must become as little children.
1Co 2:12-14
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
I can push back. The tendency is to pit Scripture [not to be taken too "literally"] against fellow brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus. The irony.
FOOLISH
This attitude/person is expressed by several OT terms.
"Fool," "foolish person" (BDB 17, KB 21) – cf. Job 5:2,3; Ps. 107:17; Prov. 1:7 (and many more); Isa. 19:11; 35:8; Jer. 4:22; Hosea 9:7
"Self-confident one" (BDB 493, KB 489) – cf. Ps. 49:10; 92:6; 94:8; Prov. 1:22,32 (many more); Eccl. 2:14-16; 5:1,3,4 (many more)
"Empty person" (BDB 614, KB 663) – cf. Deut. 32:6,21; 2 Sam. 3:33; 13:13; Job 2:10; 30:8; Ps. 14:1; 39:8; 53:1; 74:18,22; Prov. 17:7,21; 30:22; Jer. 17:11
"Thickheaded" (BDB 698, KB 754) – cf. Gen. 31:28; 1 Sam. 13:13; 2 Sam. 15:31; 24:10; 1 Chr. 21:8; 2 Chr. 16:9; Eccl. 2:19; 10:3,14; Isa. 44:25; Jer. 5:21
Jesus used three words (and their related forms) to describe foolish people.
aphrōn, Mark 7:22; Luke 11:40; 12:20
anoētos, Luke 24:25
mōros, Matt. 5:22; 7:26; 23:17,19; 25:3,8
The strongest statement by Jesus in regard to the use of this characterization of one person by another is in Matt. 5:22, where mōros reflects the Aramaic word raca, which means a person incapable of life. This section is not dealing with what specific titles one can or cannot call another person, but with a supposed believer’s attitude toward others, especially covenant brothers.
The Greek term, mōros, translated "fool," was meant to reflect the Aramaic term raca. However, Jesus’ word play was not to the Greek word mōros, but the primarily Hebrew word mōreh, BDB 598, which meant "rebel against God" (cf. Num. 20:10; Deut. 21:18,20; see F. F. Bruce, Answers to Questions, p. 42). Jesus called the Pharisees by this very term in Matt. 23:17.
Not only our actions, but our motives, attitudes, and purposes determine sin against our fellow human. Murder, as far as God is concerned, can be a thought! Hatred of our brother or sister clearly shows that we do not know God (cf. 1 John. 2:9-11; 3:15, and 4:20). Socially speaking, a hateful thought is better than a death, but remember that this section of Scripture is meant to shatter all self-righteousness and pride in one’s own goodness.
Paul follows the OT and Jesus in using several terms to describe foolish people.
aphrōn, Rom. 2:20; 1 Cor. 15:36; 2 Cor. 11:1,16,17,19,21; 12:6,11; Eph. 5:17
anoētos ‒ Rom. 1:14,22; Gal. 3:1,3
mōros, 1 Cor. 1:20,25,27; 3:18; 4:10 and a related form in Rom. 1:22
People who claim to know God, but think and act in inappropriate ways, are often characterized as poor thinkers! Paul's sarcastic comments, so frequent in 1 and 2 Corinthians, reveal this type of person. They were so confident that they possessed knowledge that they could not see nor recognize true knowledge!
As to the one verse theology let's determine the context.
Wisdom from the Spirit
1Co 2:6 And wisdom we speak among the perfect, and wisdom not of this age, nor of the rulers of this age—of those becoming useless,
1Co 2:7 but we speak the hidden wisdom of God in a secret, that God foreordained before the ages to our glory,
1Co 2:8 which no one of the rulers of this age did know, for if they had known, the Lord of the glory they would not have crucified;
1Co 2:9 but, according as it hath been written, 'What eye did not see, and ear did not hear, and upon the heart of man came not up, what God did prepare for those loving Him—'
1Co 2:10 but to us did God reveal them through His Spirit, for the Spirit all things doth search, even the depths of God,
1Co 2:11 for who of men hath known the things of the man, except the spirit of the man that is in him? so also the things of God no one hath known, except the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 And we the spirit of the world did not receive, but the Spirit that is of God, that we may know the things conferred by God on us,
1Co 2:13 which things also we speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Holy Spirit, with spiritual things spiritual things comparing,
1Co 2:14 and the natural man doth not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for to him they are foolishness, and he is not able to know them , because spiritually they are discerned;
1Co 2:15 and he who is spiritual, doth discern indeed all things, and he himself is by no one discerned;
1Co 2:16 for who did know the mind of the Lord that he shall instruct Him? and we—we have the mind of Christ.
Thank God for His Word and truth and the God-breathed Scriptures in the sphere of the Holy Spirit and not in fallible man.
You have a blessed day.
J.
Here is something interesting, the word for perfect, can mean mature and complete. Naturally, the word perfect is always perceived as something that is without flaw. If the word perfect in greek can mean mature or complete that would symbolize that you become mature - in faith.
Something people may or may not know is that - faith is something that needs to built upon. Just as the scripture talks about "building on a foundation which is unshakable." That would be placing your life upon the Lord Yeshua, and his foundation which he had laid and will never move.
While your flesh, or even faith can be shakable, you can continue to walk faithfully towards Yahavah, and build up your faith become mature. Just as a flower grows into maturity before fading away and coming back again the next spring.
All people of faith, walk and build up their faith until they become "mature - complete." Lacking nothing, you wont even need to be told by a person in what you need to do or anything like that because you will have become growing from a "Child of Yahavah" to becoming a "Mature Son, or Mature Daughter of Yahavah."
You will never perfect that flesh, I don't care how hard you try to make it flawless, sometimes if you make yourself on ridged rules, you'll wanna do something bad because it will just naturally feel good to you... so be careful in those who suggest you can perfect that flesh.
They are lying to you. It's only Jesus Christ that comes through you that does any good, by the holy spirit of God which only performs nothing but good. However, how strong is your faith in such things? I don't know.
I am just a by standard sharing information.
Something people may or may not know is that - faith is something that needs to built upon. Just as the scripture talks about "building on a foundation which is unshakable." That would be placing your life upon the Lord Yeshua, and his foundation which he had laid and will never move.
While your flesh, or even faith can be shakable, you can continue to walk faithfully towards Yahavah, and build up your faith become mature. Just as a flower grows into maturity before fading away and coming back again the next spring.
All people of faith, walk and build up their faith until they become "mature - complete." Lacking nothing, you wont even need to be told by a person in what you need to do or anything like that because you will have become growing from a "Child of Yahavah" to becoming a "Mature Son, or Mature Daughter of Yahavah."
You will never perfect that flesh, I don't care how hard you try to make it flawless, sometimes if you make yourself on ridged rules, you'll wanna do something bad because it will just naturally feel good to you... so be careful in those who suggest you can perfect that flesh.
They are lying to you. It's only Jesus Christ that comes through you that does any good, by the holy spirit of God which only performs nothing but good. However, how strong is your faith in such things? I don't know.
I am just a by standard sharing information.
What characterizes little children....for one thing it is that they are relying implicitly on their parents, not on themselves.
I'm a fully grown son, who has his mother right now paying the bills for me. (And I have lived on my own for the past 3 years and normally I will be able to pay her back.) As a fully mature faithful man, Yahavah knows whats going on in my life and where my efforts are put.
Peace.
Amen. Building on and growing our faith. We are learning to become as little children depending on our heavenly Father, His spirit...and this is "how" we are entering the kingdom of God, as I believe that scripture is implying. And by experience too - when we are in the spirit we are walking in the kingdom of God, which is a spiritual kingdom. And when we're not, we're not.
Sure but you don’t wanna stay a babe in Christ forever.
1 Corinthians
Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ.
Ephesians 4:
This will continue until we all come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God’s Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ.
Eventually people grow up, sometimes they don’t, I don’t even know if you know this information or not, but people can stay as babes in Christ or continue to grow…
I get something said by “Jesus unless you become like little children”, that’s just in reference to having faith.
Children believe in Santa Claus?
Careful-you are in the lion's den.
Division in the Church (1 Corinthians 1:10-17):
Before diving into the message of the cross, Paul addresses divisions within the Corinthian church, where people were aligning themselves with different leaders (Paul, Apollos, Cephas, or Christ). Paul stresses that Christ is not divided and that the gospel he preaches is centered solely on Christ and His work on the cross, not human personalities or eloquence. Paul’s mission was to preach the gospel, not to make it appealing through human wisdom or clever speech.
2. The Foolishness of the Cross (1 Corinthians 1:18-25):
In verse 18, Paul contrasts the two reactions to the gospel: to those who are perishing (those rejecting Christ), the message of the cross is foolishness (μωρία, mōria); but to those who are being saved, it is the power (δύναμις, dynamis) of God. The cross represents something that, from a worldly perspective, looks weak, shameful, and irrational. However, Paul asserts that this apparent "foolishness" is actually the wisdom and power of God.
He goes on to say that the wisdom of this world is powerless to grasp the saving message of the cross. Human wisdom values power, success, and intellectual understanding, but God subverts those values by choosing what seems weak and foolish in the eyes of the world to bring salvation.
3. Old Testament Reference (1 Corinthians 1:19):
Paul quotes Isaiah 29:14, where God declares that He will destroy the wisdom of the wise. This reinforces Paul’s point that God’s plan of salvation is not something that can be arrived at through human reasoning or intellect. It requires divine revelation and spiritual understanding.
4. The Limits of Human Wisdom (1 Corinthians 1:20-21):
Paul continues to emphasize the limitations of human wisdom and understanding when it comes to the things of God. He rhetorically asks, "Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age?" (v. 20). These represent the intellectual elite of the time—philosophers, scholars, and debaters—who cannot comprehend the profound spiritual truth of the cross. According to Paul, God in His wisdom made it so that the world could not come to know Him through their wisdom. Instead, it pleased God to save those who believe through the apparent foolishness of the message preached.
5. Jews Seek Signs, Greeks Seek Wisdom (1 Corinthians 1:22-23):
Paul explains that different groups respond to the gospel in distinct ways:
The Jews demand signs and miraculous displays of power, perhaps expecting the Messiah to perform great wonders or to overthrow their enemies.
The Greeks (Gentiles) seek wisdom, expecting a philosophical system or intellectual insight.
However, Paul says that the gospel proclaims Christ crucified, which is a stumbling block (σκάνδαλον, skandalon) to Jews and foolishness (μωρία, mōria) to Gentiles. The message of a crucified Messiah defies both the Jewish expectation of a powerful deliverer and the Greek pursuit of sophisticated wisdom.
6. The Power and Wisdom of God (1 Corinthians 1:24-25):
For those who are called (both Jews and Greeks), the crucified Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God. Paul concludes by asserting that even the "foolishness" of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the "weakness" of God is stronger than human strength.
7. God’s Choice of the Weak and Foolish (1 Corinthians 1:26-31):
To drive the point home, Paul reminds the Corinthians of their own situation: most of them were not wise by worldly standards, not powerful, nor of noble birth. Yet, God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and the weak things of the world to shame the strong. This is God's way of showing that no one can boast in their own abilities or status, but all glory belongs to Him.
The closing verses (v. 30-31) stress that it is because of God that they are in Christ Jesus, who has become for them wisdom from God—that is, righteousness, sanctification, and redemption. Therefore, boasting should be only in the Lord.
The context of 1 Corinthians 1:18 is Paul’s critique of the Corinthian church's tendency to elevate human wisdom and eloquence over the simple, powerful message of the cross. Paul emphasizes that the message of Christ crucified is perceived as foolishness by those who rely on human wisdom or are focused on outward signs of power. Yet, for those who are being saved, the cross is the very power and wisdom of God. This passage shows the countercultural nature of the gospel, where God uses what seems weak and foolish by worldly standards to accomplish His ultimate purpose of salvation and bring glory to Himself.
Today, many have their own terminologies, philosophies with it's own human wisdom and eloquence which is a facade.
A red flag is to not take the Scriptures "too literally" and woe betide should you want to exegete Scriptures.
You have a blessed day @MatthewG
J.
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I will—please keep me in your prayers as well, especially regarding finances.
I'm on a downward spiral and in a slough of despondency for weeks now.
J.
In God the way up higher....is down. In a manner of speaking....because God's ways are not man's ways. Those references to children are not talking about immaturity, but are giving us a key to becoming mature. His strength being perfected in our weakness.
Thank you MatthewG. I agree, we will never be perfect in the flesh, but we are commanded to be in the Spirit instead. What does a 'pure heart' mean to you?
Please everyone keep on topic thanks. Johann has been removed for high-jacking the thread.
