The world has been “made right” in front of God.

[Ronald Nolette]

That’s not what Paul said @Ronald Nolette.

Romans 5:18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

That’s true or not. One must decide for themselves.

If you wanna make it to heavenly city, yes faith seems to be the requirement.

It is true but you do not understand the grammar. Verse 18 contains no verbs at all in the original. It is because it is part of verse 19 and gains it strength from the verbs there.

Also you cannot take this one verse apart from the topic of justification in the rest of the bible. We know from the rest of Scripture that all men are under condemnation (katakrima). But when we study justification in the rest of Scripture we see that only those who trust Jesus receive that justification.(diakoasos).

Even the4 word all here is uded in its two varied meanings. the first all (condemnation) means everysingle person, but the second all though the same word means all sorts of people which is also its definition.

That is why justification has been taught for believers only through the centuries, because folks with faqr greater knwoledge of the Greek taught how th elanguage is used.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

@amigo de christo , do you have anything to share about the topic? If you wanna address the topic me and Ronald was talking about.

Do you believe the people addressed in Thess, were lied too? Misquoting scriptures, typically also leaves out the original audience.

Unfortunately Matthew you do not realize that when Paul was speaking He was speaking in the generic "we". You are inconsistent in applying your hyper literal meaning to the text. If we are going to believe what you are saying about the rapture, then we have to also believe it was only for the believers in Thessalonica and for no one else for Paul was writing to the Thessalonians. Also your hypothesis that whe a believer dies now His body immediately goes to heaven has no warrant in Scripture.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

They beleive a lot of this occured in seventy ad and etc . its known as preterism .
BUT i tell us all , This is not the case .
JESUS will appear for the saints and we who are alive will be caught up with HIM
the dead in Christ shall rise and we shall all be forever with the glorious LORD .
In fact , that day and that hour is a WHOLE LOT CLOSER than most folks would even imagine .
The signs of the times are very clear . VERY clear . for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear .
OH JESUS is coming back for the church my friend . and most mock this . but HE IS a coming
and that sky gonna rip . OH you can bank on that my friend . HOME with the LORD forever too .

They are like the Mormons who tell us that there were massive civilization here in South and Central America with massive buildings, ironclad ships etc. But there is not one scintilla of evidence to support that in archeology or from the preserved writings of the major civilizations.

Thousands of people instantly disappearing before the yes of many would have had writings preserved in history. That would have been an enormous shocking and memorable event.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This is also something where we differ. While I believe their was a resurrection of people out of the graves when Yeshua had resurrected. That was to tell the tale of overcoming death. Even with Yeshua, he had to use the same body otherwise they would have never seen that he overcame death...

I do believe that when we die, we raise spiritually resurrected.

1 Corinthians 15:42-44 New International Version 42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.


But that is between you and yourself in what you believe about that sir. It in the end doesn't effect my life whether you believe I am wrong or right.

Just sharing and hope that the Holy Spirit leads people to truth, and not just our remarks.

So do you believe that when a believer dies now, his body goesd to teh ground to rot and his soul and spirit go to be with the Lord?

 

[MatthewG]

It is true but you do not understand the grammar. Verse 18 contains no verbs at all in the original. It is because it is part of verse 19 and gains it strength from the verbs there.

Also you cannot take this one verse apart from the topic of justification in the rest of the bible. We know from the rest of Scripture that all men are under condemnation (katakrima). But when we study justification in the rest of Scripture we see that only those who trust Jesus receive that justification.(diakoasos).

Even the4 word all here is uded in its two varied meanings. the first all (condemnation) means everysingle person, but the second all though the same word means all sorts of people which is also its definition.

That is why justification has been taught for believers only through the centuries, because folks with faqr greater knwoledge of the Greek taught how th elanguage is used.

Unfortunately Matthew you do not realize that when Paul was speaking He was speaking in the generic "we". You are inconsistent in applying your hyper literal meaning to the text. If we are going to believe what you are saying about the rapture, then we have to also believe it was only for the believers in Thessalonica and for no one else for Paul was writing to the Thessalonians. Also your hypothesis that whe a believer dies now His body immediately goes to heaven has no warrant in Scripture.

So do you believe that when a believer dies now, his body goesd to teh ground to rot and his soul and spirit go to be with the Lord?

When I die, I do not expect to lay in the grave forever. When I die, my judgement is then, and given my resurrected spiritual body as far as I am concerned.


Perhaps I am stupid and need to go back to school in your eyes.


But I don't have to take your word for anything.

You're a man talking to another man on the internet. You act like a malicious gaslighter too.

 

[Behold]

(I am someone who believes there is an outside of the kingdom, and inside of the Kingdom, and believe that those who choose faithlessness remain on the outside, however their sins were paid for, before they had come to judgement, what was the judgement?

"Judgement", as in eternal judgment, does not fall on the Born Again, as Jesus has been Judged for them, already, 2000 yrs ago.

"God hath made JESUS... to be SIN for US"..

A.) "US" is the BORN AGAIN

This is why the BORN AGAIN......... ((not the water baptized and religious but lost))... but the BORN AGAIN.... "not by water" but "by my SPIRIT sayeth the LORD">....= The BORN AGAIN..... will meet God after they die as their Heavenly Father, and not as their Eternal Judge.
How do you know?
Its because GOD...is already become the eternal Heavenly Father, regarding all the BORN..... AGAIN....

Whereas..

UNBELIEVERS... never born again, are currently DAMNED, and are waiting for the JUDGEMENT that is their "2nd Death".

= Eternal Damnation

See,... the CHRIST REJECTOR... who is never born again, is already DAMNED< ... dead or alive and currently breathing.
Is your neighbor, an unbeliever? Is your family member?
Do you know people who are not born again?
They are DAMNED, right now, and need to be SAVED.... = born again.

The only way to get out of this Eternal DAMNATION, that is God's WRATH, that is ON THEM right now.... .

These.. People..

Read the verse..

John 3:36

The only way they can escape that Wrath of God, that is ON THEM..... is when they receive Jesus (by faith) as their Messiah... Savior.

= "all who call on the name of Jesus.. SHALL... BE.. SAVED"... = right then..

Saved from WHAT?

= John 3:36

Eternal Damnation

The "2nd Death".

 

[MatthewG]

"Judgement", as in eternal judgment, does not fall on the Born Again, as Jesus has been Judged for them, already, 2000 yrs ago.

"God hath made JESUS... to be SIN for US"..

A.) "US" is the BORN AGAIN

This is why the BORN AGAIN......... ((not the water baptized and religious but lost))... but the BORN AGAIN.... "not by water" but "by my SPIRIT sayeth the LORD">....= The BORN AGAIN..... will meet God after they die as their Heavenly Father, and not as their Eternal Judge.
How do you know?
Its because GOD...is already become the eternal Heavenly Father, regarding all the BORN..... AGAIN....

Whereas..

UNBELIEVERS... never born again, are currently DAMNED, and are waiting for the JUDGEMENT that is their "2nd Death".

= Eternal Damnation

See,... the CHRIST REJECTOR... who is never born again, is already DAMNED< ... dead or alive
Is your neighbor, an unbeliever? Is your family member?
Do you know people who are not born again?
They are DAMNED, right now, and need to be SAVED.... = born again.

The only way to get out of this Eternal DAMNATION, that is God's WRATH, that is ON THEM right now.... .

These.. People..

Read the verse..

John 3:36

The only way they can escape that Wrath of God, that is ON THEM..... is when they receive Jesus as their Messiah... Savior.

= "all who call on the name of Jesus.. SHALL... BE.. SAVED"... = right then..

Saved from WHAT?

= John 3:36

Eternal Damnation

The "2nd Death".

I got you on ignore as well.


All people are sharing is simply the views they have. My view is in the original post.

The wrath of God was poured out on Israel in 70 Ad. Thats my view.

 

[keithr]

"Judgement", as in eternal judgment, does not fall on the Born Again, as Jesus has been Judged for them, already, 2000 yrs ago.

"God hath made JESUS... to be SIN for US".

Or as Paul puts it, Romans 8:28-39 (WEB):

(28) We know that all things work together for good for those who love God, to those who are called according to his purpose.​

(29) For whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.​

(30) Whom he predestined, those he also called. Whom he called, those he also justified. Whom he justified, those he also glorified.​

(31) What then shall we say about these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?​

(32) He who didn’t spare his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how would he not also with him freely give us all things?​

(33) Who could bring a charge against God’s chosen ones? It is God who justifies.​

(34) Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, yes rather, who was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.​

(35) Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Could oppression, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?​

(36) Even as it is written, “For your sake we are killed all day long. We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”​

(37) No, in all these things, we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.​

(38) For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,​

(39) nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from God’s love, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.​

A Christian's judgement is not to decide a punishment, but to decide on what reward we he will get, what his inheritance will be.
Edit: i.e. we are not judged on our sins (which have been forgiven - Romans 8:1, "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus") but we are judged on our service as ambassadors of Christ and God.

2 Corinthians 5:10 (WEB):

(10) For we must all be revealed before the judgment seat of Christ; that each one may receive the things in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.​

 

[MatthewG]

Why is Yahavah gonna punish anyone though? He punished Israel in 70AD, that was the coming of the Wrath of God. That cup is empty.


Yahavah is gonna resurrected condemnation spiritual body, or a resurrection of life spiritual body, or a better than that spiritual body...



Why is Yahavah made at people for not believing? when he continues to call for them to believe and loves them and their sins are paid for it's just unbelief that keeps them from having newness of life in Christ.

There are two destinations, just as two trees existed in the Garden. Outside the kingdom or inside the kingdom.

Those are my questions @keithr

 

[MatthewG]

Not to try to take anything out of context but,

God is a giver of good gifts.

16 Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters. 17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. 18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.

Ever though this context talks a lot about wisdom and seeking and asking Yahavah, does Yahavah still give good gifts, even resurrected of condemnation? You wonder if people outside of the Kingdom are happy where they are at.

Revelation 22:15
Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.


All I can do is speculate as much as everyone else. :)

 

[keithr]

Why is Yahavah gonna punish anyone though? He punished Israel in 70AD, that was the coming of the Wrath of God. That cup is empty.

God wants all His created beings to have eternal, abundant, perfect and joyful lives - because God is love and He loves us so much. If imperfect, sinful people are allowed to continue living then life for them and all the righteous people will not be joyful. Our experience with sin teaches us that. We don't want to live with sinners, and neither does God:

Revelation 21:3-4 (WEB):

(3) I heard a loud voice out of heaven saying, “Behold, God’s dwelling is with people, and he will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.​

(4) He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. Death will be no more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more. The first things have passed away.”​

In order that God can wipe away all tears, and that there will be no more death (the wages of sin is death) then all sin must be done away with, so all sinners must perish - they must die again and remain eternally dead - the "second death", Revelation 21:8 (WEB):

(8) But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”​

The overthrow of Israel in A.D. 70 was a judgement of God for their rejection of Jesus. Matthew 23:38-39 (WEB):

(38) Behold, your house is left to you desolate.​

(39) For I tell you, you will not see me from now on, until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!’”​

The wrath of God is something quite different - see Revelation 16. (Note this is a future event. The whole of Revelation is a revelation from Jesus revealing future events, and was given to John after A.D. 70, at around A.D. 95-98.)

Why is Yahavah mad at people for not believing? when he continues to call for them to believe and loves them and their sins are paid for it's just unbelief that keeps them from having newness of life in Christ.

There are two destinations, just as two trees existed in the Garden. Outside the kingdom or inside the kingdom.

There are two destinies - eternal life or eternal death. God's Kingdom, to be established and goverened by Jesus, covers heaven and earth - all living beings will be in God's Kingdom. No unrighteous sinners will be allowed in, therefore the only alternative is their destruction - they will perish (second death for humans, a first death for demons and Satan).

Those are my questions @keithr

I hope that helps you to understand more clearly. If not, wait awhile - I expect other people will chime in with answers!.

 

[MatthewG]

God wants all His created beings to have eternal, abundant, perfect and joyful lives - because God is love and He loves us so much. If imperfect, sinful people are allowed to continue living then life for them and all the righteous people will not be joyful. Our experience with sin teaches us that. We don't want to live with sinners, and neither does God:

Sin was paid for.

Revelation 21:3-4 (WEB):

(3) I heard a loud voice out of heaven saying, “Behold, God’s dwelling is with people, and he will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.​

That's all a spiritual aspect. There is no more death in Christ, etc.

(4) He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. Death will be no more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more. The first things have passed away.”​

In order that God can wipe away all tears, and that there will be no more death (the wages of sin is death) then all sin must be done away with, so all sinners must perish - they must die again and remain eternally dead - the "second death", Revelation 21:8 (WEB):

(8) But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”​

The overthrow of Israel in A.D. 70 was a judgement of God for their rejection of Jesus. Matthew 23:38-39 (WEB):

(38) Behold, your house is left to you desolate.​

(39) For I tell you, you will not see me from now on, until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!’”​

It was the wrath of God upon them. The cup was emptied.

The wrath of God is something quite different - see Revelation 16. (Note this is a future event. The whole of Revelation is a revelation from Jesus revealing future events, and was given to John after A.D. 70, at around A.D. 95-98.)

It's explained in EZE. - I believe John was given revelation right before the destruction (68-69Ad). - it's just a difference of opinion. Dates are debatable always will be. Jesus was coming soon... quickly without delay.

There are two destinies - eternal life or eternal death. God's Kingdom, to be established and goverened by Jesus, covers heaven and earth - all living beings will be in God's Kingdom. No unrighteous sinners will be allowed in, therefore the only alternative is their destruction - they will perish (second death for humans, a first death for demons and Satan).

I don't see how. But okay. Revelation 21, 22 are completely new scenes from Revelation 1-20. The end of the age, had come, and now the newness of the new age had arrived.


(It's the age of fulfilment and of the Holy Spirit.)

I hope that helps you to understand more clearly. If not, wait awhile - I expect other people will chime in with answers!.

It helps me understand your view. It's not mine. You always tend to go off on your view, and not consider what is really being said... or may just in general reject this fulfilment aspect...

If you would really like to know more - please view here.

Seven Lens, Concerning Fulfillment.

The Seven Lens First: That Jesus Christ has had the victory over all things. All things heavenly, earthly, or beneath the earth. There is nothing that He did not conquer through His life lived, His death, resurrection, ascension, and return. He is Lord over all . . . and all means all. Two...

www.christianityboard.com

Cause you quote the bible all you want, it really doesn't mean a lot to me sometimes: I do understand you are answering my questions with your viewpoint thank you for making them clear.. That is just being honest man, cause I'm not ashamed to tell you that.
Jesus Victory to me, is always over all things. And that is for today.

No man can get between us and our faith, and what we believe, and how Yahavah deals with each of us by his Holy spirit today.

 

[keithr]

Jesus was coming soon... quickly without delay.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-6 (WEB):

(1) Now, brothers, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to him, we ask you​

(2) not to be quickly shaken in your mind, and not be troubled, either by spirit, or by word, or by letter as if from us, saying that the day of Christ has already come.​

(3) Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction,​

(4) he who opposes and exalts himself against all that is called God or that is worshiped; so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself up as God.​

(5) Don’t you remember that, when I was still with you, I told you these things?​

(6) Now you know what is restraining him, to the end that he may be revealed in his own season.​

 

[MatthewG]

2 Thessalonians 2:1-6 (WEB):

(1) Now, brothers, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to him, we ask you​

(2) not to be quickly shaken in your mind, and not be troubled, either by spirit, or by word, or by letter as if from us, saying that the day of Christ has already come.​

(3) Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction,​

(4) he who opposes and exalts himself against all that is called God or that is worshiped; so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself up as God.​

(5) Don’t you remember that, when I was still with you, I told you these things?​

(6) Now you know what is restraining him, to the end that he may be revealed in his own season.​

Yeah and?






@keithr im not new to the Bible by any means. The questions I ask are to question yourself, nothing more. Cutting the Bible and tearing holes is not good for people, that’s my unpopular opinion.



The letter to 2 thess was a whole scroll…
The letter to 1 thess was a whole scroll…
The letter of revelation to those people, was a whole scroll…


I guess those people were really lied too. I still believe Jesus came to those people faithfully and that Jesus is not a failure and we benefit from the bride of Christ.

 

[MatthewG]

1 John 2:2

And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Please review the first post:

The world has been “made right” in front of God.

Please take time to read this whole post. 1 John 2:2 And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. First, this is not a message to say "You can sin all you want to!" Secondly, in my life I have sinned here and there. Yahavah, by...

www.christianityboard.com

All people are justified for having their sins taken care of... now its up to them to walk in faith, and seek out, and have a changed life in him, because of the things taken care of by him on the cross. Praise be to our Father in heaven, and the Lord Jesus whom has taken care of all people sins in the world. Whether or not they seek is totally upon the individual.

 

[Lizbeth]

Please review the first post:

The world has been “made right” in front of God.

Please take time to read this whole post. 1 John 2:2 And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. First, this is not a message to say "You can sin all you want to!" Secondly, in my life I have sinned here and there. Yahavah, by...

www.christianityboard.com

All people are justified for having their sins taken care of... now its up to them to walk in faith, and seek out, and have a changed life in him, because of the things taken care of by him on the cross. Praise be to our Father in heaven, and the Lord Jesus whom has taken care of all people sins in the world. Whether or not they seek is totally upon the individual.

Apparently not, I'm afraid........since there are those who "die in their sins" and "perish".

"Not for ours only" refers to the Jews, who Jesus was born to and who the gospel was preached to first.........and "but for the sins of the whole world" refers to the Gentiles of the nations who would come to faith in Christ. Jesus said no man comes to the Father but by him......it is necessary to receive Christ to be reconciled to the Father, otherwise one is still in their sins and spiritually dead......."If ye have not the Son ye have not the Father either." A bride must accept the bridegroom and agree to the betrothal, otherwise no marriage will take place and she will not go to dwell with the groom/Son in the Father's house.

Don't forget we are "justified by faith".......no faith, no justification.

 

[Behold]

Please take time to read this whole post.



First, this is not a message to say "You can sin all you want to!"
Secondly, in my life I have sinned here and there. Yahavah, by the spirit, will correct me. I know instantly when I have done wrong, and there is no doubt about that.
However, even though before I knew what it was which was wrong, I had to learn what that was. After that I didn't need to know about it again because of the holy spirit of Yahavah, reminds us through life.
Thirdly, all sin for all people has been accomplished by the victory of Jesus Christ.


All people are justified before Yahavah - with sin being paid for - their sins have been covered—believer or not.
Meaning all people are able to reach out in faith and gain access to Yahavah due to this victory of Jesus Christ, and Yahavah reconciling the world unto himself through Christ.

Romans 5:18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

Now, this is significant "Justification" because people are now held responsible for their own choices in this life. Good or bad, they are justified because of the death of Yeshua. However, that doesn't mean that all people reach out, and then move forward to the "Sanctification" phase of their life, where Yahavha gives the holy spirit in the heart of a "believer." I believe it comes down to "faith, faithlessness." Those are the only two differences between a believer, and a non-believer though the non-believer is still justified in front of Yahavah.

(I am someone who believes there is an outside of the kingdom, and inside of the Kingdom, and believe that those who choose faithlessness remain on the outside, however their sins were paid for, before they had come to judgement, what was the judgement?

Did you have faith, and did you love. That is the works of God aren't they? To believe on the one whom Yahavah had sent.

The NT teaches that God justified the BELIEVER, ONLY based on The Blood and Death sacrifice of Jesus on The Cross.

Its stated that you are Justified like this..

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ONLY Through Jesus on the Cross... everyone who believes = acknowledges Jesus as his Savior is absolved (cleared and freed) from every charge of sin..... from which the believer could not be justified and freed by the Law of Moses... and based on Christ's Sacrifice... the BELIEVER is GIVEN right standing (justification by Faith) with God., as the GIFT of Salvation
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This means that The Law and Commandments, only DEFINE YOU as a sinner because the Law and Commandments, REQUIRE of you, that you are perfectly sinless and Righteous.
And we can't be, because "all have sinned"... So, this requirement of the Law, is a CURSE to us.... Its a curse ON US... as we can't produce what is required of the law, because "all have sinned".

Jesus came to deliver us from this "" curse of the Law.... """

So, God offers Righteousness, that is not "of the law"........because its completely and eternally based on JESUS's Sacrifice, that God provided and accepts.. = that forgives us eternally based on The Cross of Christ, and Justifies us before God, only based on the CROSS of Christ..

This is GOD's Salvation, through Christ that is a "GIFT">

"The GIFT of Salvation".

 

[MatthewG]

Apparently not, I'm afraid........since there are those who "die in their sins" and "perish".

"Not for ours only" refers to the Jews, who Jesus was born to and who the gospel was preached to first.........and "but for the sins of the whole world" refers to the Gentiles of the nations who would come to faith in Christ. Jesus said no man comes to the Father but by him......it is necessary to receive Christ to be reconciled to the Father, otherwise one is still in their sins and spiritually dead......."If ye have not the Son ye have not the Father either." A bride must accept the bridegroom and agree to the betrothal, otherwise no marriage will take place and she will not go to dwell with the groom/Son in the Father's house.

Don't forget we are "justified by faith".......no faith, no justification.

Yes, we are justified by faith. However, Jesus has paid for all people's sins. Whether you believe that or not is up to you. People are already justified in having their sins paid for in Jesus. Whether or not that walk towards him or not is up to them. Everyone is a blank slate. I haven't read my post in a long time, Lizbeth, but Jesus Christ paying for all people sins still stands. Perhaps you can say people are justified in the death of Jesus Christ, but yet have risen with him. Some reject the spiritual rebirth given, and they die or perish in their mind/will/emotions waxing worse, and the only sin that is not been paid for is rejecting the holy spirit and suggesting such is evil.

I believe what I am saying is true, however you may not believe what I am saying is true, and I expect as much from people who disagree, thank you for sharing your points.

1 John 2:2

And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

I believe this stands true. All people are justified by the death of Christ, having their sins nullified. Whether or not they go to God in faith afterward is a choice for them.

This is why even though murderers get convicted, and child predators get convicted, Jesus has paid for their sins. They are justified in this because of him paying for their sins... whether or not they seek after God, even in their problems is only something Yahavah known, but many people wish death upon them, and that most certainly is not loving our neighbor as ourself having mercy, and compassion.

I can freely say to anyone, that their sins have been paid for by the Lord Jesus Christ... doesn't matter their background. It's a true fact, I believe in faith.

 

[Lizbeth]

Yes, we are justified by faith. However, Jesus has paid for all people's sins. Whether you believe that or not is up to you. People are already justified in having their sins paid for in Jesus. Whether or not that walk towards him or not is up to them. Everyone is a blank slate. I haven't read my post in a long time, Lizbeth, but Jesus Christ paying for all people sins still stands. Perhaps you can say people are justified in the death of Jesus Christ, but yet have risen with him. Some reject the spiritual rebirth given, and they die or perish in their mind/will/emotions waxing worse, and the only sin that is not been paid for is rejecting the holy spirit and suggesting such is evil.

I believe what I am saying is true, however you may not believe what I am saying is true, and I expect as much from people who disagree, thank you for sharing your points.



I believe this stands true. All people are justified by the death of Christ, having their sins nullified. Whether or not they go to God in faith afterward is a choice for them.

This is why even though murderers get convicted, and child predators get convicted, Jesus has paid for their sins. They are justified in this because of him paying for their sins... whether or not they seek after God, even in their problems is only something Yahavah known, but many people wish death upon them, and that most certainly is not loving our neighbor as ourself having mercy, and compassion.

I can freely say to anyone, that their sins have been paid for by the Lord Jesus Christ... doesn't matter their background. It's a true fact, I believe in faith.

Salvation is by faith. Without faith one is not saved. Saved from what? Saved from sins and saved from wrath. What is wrath? The wages of sin...which is death. Fear Him who can destroy both body and soul in hell. Our God is a consuming fire. We need to understand that God's justice is a righteous thing, not unrighteous. There is no salvation apart from receiving and believing in Christ by faith which is not of our own.

Mat 13:40-43

As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Rom 3:25

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

 

[MatthewG]

Salvation is by faith. Without faith one is not saved. Saved from what? Saved from sins and saved from wrath. What is wrath? The wages of sin...which is death. Fear Him who can destroy both body and soul in hell. Our God is a consuming fire. We need to understand that God's justice is a righteous thing, not unrighteous. There is no salvation apart from receiving and believing in Christ by faith which is not of our own.

Mat 13:40-43

As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Rom 3:25

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

I’m someone who believes everything has been fulfilled already by the Lord Jesus Christ. Most find that to be wrong. It’s up to you how you believe, not up to me to tell you how to believe. Have a good one, Ma’am.