The Rapture Cover-up
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MA2444
Well-Known Member
The top quote is the one I was responding to and the one I was speaking of when I said,
My point was that you said there is no proof, so I called you on that because I have posted scriptures and gave my interpretaion of the message therin and so have other posters. You know this, but were unable to understand what I was saying because it sounded foreign to what you have learned. So a minor misstep for sure, but there is proof. I admit it isnt easy to fully understand being pieced together in scripture but it all points to the same things.
God felt Enoch was worthy so God took him. God loved Noah and His family, so he saved them. 1 Thess 5:19/Rev 3:10...we are not subject to wrath it all fits for us best ones to be raptured out and saved from the great trib.
I used to be mid trib. And I just didnt see a pretrib. (I've been saved and readinf scriptures for 40+ years also, not deep study all 50 years, but it bugged me and I did study rapture theory quite a bit, and slowly but slowly, I began understanding the truth. And as that happened an excellant peace also came over my spirit. I believe the peace in my spirit about it was the Lords confirmation to me that, it is pretrib and please be ready for my own sake!
I learned how to hear the still small voice of the Lord awhile back. Holy Spirit doesnt speak audibly to us. It is inside of us. But one gets used to it and there's no mistaking it any more. I'm am not claiming to be a Moses or a Payl or anyone special. Quite the opposite in fact, I am Nobody. But it's now pretty much impossible to not hear the Lords voice inside of me. He wakes me up at 3 AM, He tells me fst to not do certain things, Sometimes He just Lords right in and changes my train of thought! He doesnt always answer me when I ask Him a question! (dangit!). But the Holy Spirit brings a sense of peace that is only a supernatural inner peace which assures me that, He is there. And thats a good feeing. More of a perception than a feeling but very real. One time the Lord Jesusus came and spoke audibly to me. There's a whole testimony behind that. And another time the Holy Spirit saved me from going to jail because three teams of cops were searching for me to arrest me and I was on foot and they knew it. And I started praying as soon as I started walking. My vehicke was broke down at the moment and I had recently been in an auto accident that left me unable to walk very far! And Holy Spirit saved me that day. it was louder than the still small voice of God inside of me. Probably He turned up the volume because of the exegent circumstances!? But Holy Spirt said turn right here and make a left in the 1st alley...now make a right, and another right at the next street. Stop here and rest yourself for a few...get up quickly go left up that street then right oin the alley, and all thiese internal instructions just kept cming and coming. And I followed them to the letter! Sometimes when crossing a street I would see a police car crossing an intersection a few blocks up. And this went on for more thn 45 minutes and they never did find me! And all of a sudden the Holy Spirit says, ok you can go home now it's safe now...But that was a special case, I was running from being arrested, lol! Usually the still small voice of the Lord is softer than that day!
And He teaches me other things too, and always there is His presence within me, and I know it. I've been watching videos before and He will quicken my spirit to let me know if what I am watching is true or not! That's weird when it happens! It's like God "pinged" my spirit like they do with submarines or something. and that led me to think hey Lord will you just pick a video for me that you want me to watch? And He does! SOmething in the teaching video will speak directly to me!
He has taught me a lot about Love. His love for me/us and how we should be and all of that, and along with all the teaching and chatting with the Lord...comes discernment and many times I can tell right away if I am hearing truth or lies. And a lot of the time He uses peace in my spirit to communicate discernment to me. Do I have peace in my spirit after reading that? Yes so it's truth. It has the ring of truth, it smells like truth and it tastes like truth. If I apply that principle to the rapture discussion, I have not been able to feel any peace in my spirit about Amil/Posttrib rapture.
You said, pretrib theory is to be rejected because we look for Jesus before the stated time. And the theory is not truth...
Well, whenever I consider that if it may be truth and I have had it wrong it troubles my spirit and there is o peace in my spirit about posttrib. Now I know that I have said that I am a nobody who hears voices in my head (LOL!) and it really doesnt matter if you believe me or dont believe me. I am not scripture. I dont take donations, I dont sell books or CD's. I'm not psychotic or anything. The voices dont tell me to rob banks and murder people, we talk about scripture and life and sound principles to life by. So there's another angle to this whole debate that is pretty much overloooked as a consideration to the topic. We can discuss text and we can discuss it with a spiritual approach beyond the text and that is where I am. From what I have been taught and from the Lord too, is that the rapture will be sooner tha we think, in many cases much sooner! (for some people). And with that came peace in my spirit, so I am conviced, (oraise the Lord) that it is a pretrib rapture.
I'm not asking you to believe me or to send me donations (LOL) but for myself, a nobody, I am saying that an everyday walk around relationship with the Lord is possible and very real. And for us nobodys too! This is our Lord and He talks to every one of you everyday, but you have trouble discerning His voice. And if I can do it, then others can surely do it also. So pretrib and post trib can argue back and forth until all are blue in the face and no one has proven anything! Am I right?
How many of us have prayed about this topic to the Lord? I hope I'm wrong but I'm guessing not very many.
David was so right in the Psalms! The Lord, once you learn how to hear His voice inside of you...you can't get away fro him even if you wanted to! David said, if I go to the mountain you are there. If I make my bed in sheol, you are there. The Lord is always with us. We are in Christ. Christ is, in us. He is beside you and is also your rear guard. It was truth when it was written, The Kindom of Heaven, is at hand.
I read what you guys write and consider it. but it dont pass the peace test and it dont pass the word test. Word as in Rhema, and not necessarily the Logos. That's where I am. If post trib rapture is indeed the truth them something that someone writes about it will go DING and have the ring of truth to it. But so far that has not happened. And that is enough reason un my mind to reject post trib. Scriptures are our road map to find God.
But once you can hear His voice...many things shall be added unto you. The real Love that Jesus has for you is so much that it is prolly incomprehensible. Supposing that you are one of the unblemished good ones (God knows) then He will literally fly in here to the earth and do an air rescue and break you out right at last moment before the world erupts into the worst period of history that the world has ever seen before. He will be in and rescue you and gone again before the world can even say, what happened?!
That'll be a $7.95 donation. (NO. Just Kidding!)I have no reason to lie brother. I may be nobody but God is real!
MA2444
Well-Known Member
That's what scripture seems to say.
Matthew 24:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.../KJV
It doesnt say except when Jesus was crucified. ??
Here it is in the NLT version
Matthew 24:21
21 For there will be greater anguish than at any time since the world began. And it will never be so great again.../NLT
Seems very clear to me.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
You shared a lot here(thank you) and i SEE why the LORD has us together on this forum - thank you
Let me start with this: @MA2444 says "That'll be a $7.95 donation."
You made my day Brother - i needed that comment because of the great sorrow i am in = THANK YOU
pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib, jws, baptists, pentecostals, amil, premil, no-mil, etc etc = Nothing foreign to me my Brother!
allow me to dissect this:
a.)"I admit it isnt easy" = study takes time & work(not easy) - However - the Scriptures were written for children = God made it EASY for us
So you have TWO Aspects of scripture and then a THIRD = Mystery here for you. i hope you like mysteries!
b.) "scripture but it all points to the same things" only if you are referring to the LORD Jesus Christ = the WAY, TRUTH & LIFE
c.) "I have not been able to feel any peace in my spirit about Amil" = GOOD, that is God Blessing you!!!
d.) post-trib??? We NEED to KNOW what the LORD has said on this.
Now, let us brake Bread in the Fellowship of Him who Died and Shed His Blood for us by His Commandment - Matt 4:4
Let us not make the mistake of 'shot-gun' scriptures! Study of the scriptures does not take that approach.
"Missing the Mark" is a Archery Term
We have all missed the Mark. The TRUE Mark is the Direct CENTER of God's HEART.
The Greek word for “sin” is hamartia, an archery term for “missing the mark.”
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It also says it would happen to THAT generation too. Seems pretty clear doesn’t it?
The time of JACOBS TROUBLE in which God washed his hands of the nation of Israel forever so that it’s impossible for the time of Jacobs trouble to any time other than the cross.
MA2444
Well-Known Member
That's great, Brother! All serious topics need an injection of humour every once in awhile, lol.Most of it is foreign to all of us brother. We were all born of water on the earth and can only see the material world, which is the lie and we are to look to the unseen and find it, Believe in it, and believe in Him. And you know as well as I do that it takes 50 years on tis planet to even get a clue! No matter how much we think we know, our best intellect is foolishness before God. I used to think I was the smart kid. Everybdy told me so. I have a 136 IQ...and it was useless to me because it has not entered into the mind of man how much there is to this. How much, there is to, God.
I have Him do some mighty strange things! Things that, there could not be another answer except, the Lord. So I have accepted that. He taught me about the story of His triumphant entry into jerusalem on the donkey which had never known a burden or ever been trained.
The donkey is us Brother. He will ride an untrained clueless donkey to victory in us, if we allow Him to.
I understand how Abraham must have felt. He didnt know where he was going or what would happen, he was clueless! Moses too! But God kept the promise right in front of Abraham. ...As many children as sand that numbers the seashore...now go into the desert and look at the sand! I feel just like that, lol. But I trust Him and He proved that He always comes through in some way. Many times in not the way that I would expect for Him to.
MA2444
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry brother but you are mistaken about that and I can show you. Paul talked about it.
Romans 11:1-
1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace..../KJV
Is that clear enough? God did not cast away His people. So Jacobs trouble was not back then.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Most of it is foreign to all of us brother. We were all born of water on the earth and can only see the material world, which is the lie and we are to look to the unseen and find it, Believe in it, and believe in Him. And you know as well as I do that it takes 50 years on tis planet to even get a clue! No matter how much we think we know, our best intellect is foolishness before God. I used to think I was the smart kid. Everybdy told me so. I have a 136 IQ...and it was useless to me because it has not entered into the mind of man how much there is to this. How much, there is to, God.
I have Him do some mighty strange things! Things that, there could not be another answer except, the Lord. So I have accepted that. He taught me about the story of His triumphant entry into jerusalem on the donkey which had never known a burden or ever been trained.
The donkey is us Brother. He will ride an untrained clueless donkey to victory in us, if we allow Him to.
I understand how Abraham must have felt. He didnt know where he was going or what would happen, he was clueless! Moses too! But God kept the promise right in front of Abraham. ...As many children as sand that numbers the seashore...now go into the desert and look at the sand! I feel just like that, lol. But I trust Him and He proved that He always comes through in some way. Many times in not the way that I would expect for Him to.
AGREE
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
SEE how easy that was, when we believe EVERY word that proceeds from the Mouth of God!
@IndianaRob, I have a question just in general.
Did you ever read those books, "Left behind" series? I read about 2 chapters of one time.
There are many people who are gonna kind of on a case like that. Ya know?
Did you ever read those books, "Left behind" series? I read about 2 chapters of one time.
There are many people who are gonna kind of on a case like that. Ya know?
MA2444
Well-Known Member
You know sometimes it seems ike when Jesus had His manuscript done and redy for print that he shuffled all the pages and then sent it to print! I think He did that for multiple reasons. So that He could write it to be simple...but not easy to read and requires digging out the pieces of it and putting it together. So that we have to study it closely.
I can see pre trib fitting together with all other scriptures so far.
MA2444
Well-Known Member
MA2444
Well-Known Member
I do. Brother, I hope they make a movie about all this in heaven. What a sci-fi flick that will be eh?!
MA2444
Well-Known Member
Ok, so you agree that no matter how smart we think we are, it's even stranger than that. Scripture even talks about ankle deep, shin deep, waist deep neck deep and swimming in the Spirit of the Lord. You & I are prolly only ankle deep, lol!
MA2444
Well-Known Member
See, we are not humans on a spiritual journey. We are spiritual Beings on a human journey.
We will be etrnal beings and yet they have only taught us half of life, the material world part. The bigger half is yet to come and is even now, here.
Now we have to learn how to live as spiritual beings. They say the first 100 years are the hardest!
You’re reading Romans 11 with dispensational glasses lol.
Read chapter 10 and then read chapter 11. Paul is telling us that yes God is casting away the wicked Jews but he is not casting was HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE just because they are Jews.
The Jews are not, we’re not, and never will be Gods chosen people. Gods chosen people have always been those who love God and keep his commandments.
We’re told exactly who Gods chosen people are Exodus 19:5 …. IF you obey my voice THEN you will be my people.
Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
God tolerated the wicked Jews lording over his chosen people UNTIL Christ came. Then God took the kingdom from the wicked Jews and gave the kingdom to the RIGHTEOUS JEWS like Peter, Paul, James and John.
This is exactly what Amos 8 prophesied to happen when Christ came. And this another passage that futurist toss out the window because it doesn’t line up with what futurists think should happen.
Amo 8:1 Thus hath the Lord GOD shewed unto me: and behold a basket of summer fruit.
Amo 8:2 And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit. Then said the LORD unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Brother,
Watch how easy and childlike this is: God calls it faith in His Word.
Can you please post the scripture where JESUS said (any of the following):
a.) I will rapture my Elect/Bride/Church BEFORE the "Abomination of Desolation spoken by Daniel the Prophet"
b.) I will not permit My chosen/elect/saints/Bride/Church to suffer tribulation unto death.
c.) I will rapture my Bride/Saints/Elect/Church BEFORE the 'Day of Jacob's Trouble'.
d.) I have separated Jew from Gentile in the New Covenant
e.) My Saints/Elect/Redeemed Bride/Church will not see or face or suffer from the Antichrist
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Now you have drifted from the truth, for we are BOTH, just as the LORD Jesus Christ was BOTH when HE came in the FLESH.
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon,
and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us— that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.
And these things we write to you that your joy may be full. - 1 John 1:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,
and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God.
And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. - 1 John 4:1
SEE how easy that was!!!
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I watched the movie but I never read the books.
I used to be dispensationalist until I started actually reading the bible rather than let pastors and teachers tell me what the Bible said so I know that theology backwards and forwards.
The Left Behind series is pure satanic heresy put out by the “enemies of the gospel” in my opinion.
It was weird, found it when I was young. In my mind it gave me the thought(s) of "everything in the world was on fire and there was like an atomic bomb that caused it." While I get that is possible, I am not totally sure we will go so far to use those types of weapons again considering what we did in Japan. Now I get they could very well still be testing bombs and things like that, and it was such a scare back in the 50s, 60s, or 70ishs, because of fear of nuclear war. We could destroy ourselves, ya know but I don't think it will be by Yeshua, coming back, and God's wrath being poured out on America... because as I was reading EZE last night... and man... Yahavah makes promises to have basically no mercy on their adulterous ways, and destroy them by his Wrath.
Many focus on that one chapter 38-39, well ALL from 1 to the end of EZE are meant to be taken as a whole.
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