The wine of God's wrath in the cup of His indignation

[Timtofly]

According to Daniel and revelation ,the tribulation of the Christian Jews is 42 months .A time,times and a half.

Daniel
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.



You said the tribulation of the Jewish Christians lasts for thousands of years but scripture says it only lasts 42 months. As time,times and a half.


There is only a time,times and a half from the time the persecution of the Jewish Christians starts in Daniel 11:33 to the great tribulation in Daniel 12.1.

Daniel 12;6-7
One of them said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, “How long will it be before these astonishing things are fulfilled?”

The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, “It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed.”




Where do you get that these things take thousands of years to be fulfilled when the verse above says they are fulfilled in a time,times and a half which is 3.5 years?

First off, the question was not how long a tribulation would last.

The question was how long until all is fulfilled. KJV:

"And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished."

So, we have a few things here. One cannot even use the "day year principle". This was not defined as 3.5 days, nor 3.5 years. There is 3.5 five of some time frame, but neither of those 2 options.

We know that all these things are not finished 2500 years later after Daniel. That should be a hint to those living in the so called last days, of the last 2 millennia.

Seems we are down to the last time frame of a thousand years, as we have passed the half a time from Daniel to the Messiah. 2 times and still no Prince to come. Seems either premil will be right, or amil and post mill will keep telling us for the next thousand years, "I told you so".

 

[tailgator]

First off, the question was not how long a tribulation would last.

The question was how long until all is fulfilled. KJV:

"And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished."

So, we have a few things here. One cannot even use the "day year principle". This was not defined as 3.5 days, nor 3.5 years. There is 3.5 five of some time frame, but neither of those 2 options.

We know that all these things are not finished 2500 years later after Daniel. That should be a hint to those living in the so called last days, of the last 2 millennia.

Seems we are down to the last time frame of a thousand years, as we have passed the half a time from Daniel to the Messiah. 2 times and still no Prince to come. Seems either premil will be right, or amil and post mill will keep telling us for the next thousand years, "I told you so".

The book of revelation defines A time,times and a half to 1260 days which is 42 months or 3.5 years.
This is not rocket science.

These things are finished in ,3.5 years.
A time
+Times
+Half a time
---------------------
=3.5


We have not even started to count this time down.It doesn't begin till the king of the north gives the beast his armed forces,which is the second beast in revelation 13.
Then you can start counting.

 

[tailgator]

First off, the question was not how long a tribulation would last.

The question was how long until all is fulfilled. KJV:

"And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished."

So, we have a few things here. One cannot even use the "day year principle". This was not defined as 3.5 days, nor 3.5 years. There is 3.5 five of some time frame, but neither of those 2 options.

We know that all these things are not finished 2500 years later after Daniel. That should be a hint to those living in the so called last days, of the last 2 millennia.

Seems we are down to the last time frame of a thousand years, as we have passed the half a time from Daniel to the Messiah. 2 times and still no Prince to come. Seems either premil will be right, or amil and post mill will keep telling us for the next thousand years, "I told you so".

There will be three options for the people in Israel.
Take the mark of the beast
Flee into the wilderness
Stay and preach the gospel and expect to be imprisoned and killed as Jesus was.

 

[Timtofly]

The book of revelation defines A time,times and a half to 1260 days which is 42 months or 3.5 years.
This is not rocket science.

These things are finished in ,3.5 years.
A time
+Times
+Half a time
---------------------
=3.5


We have not even started to count this time down.It doesn't begin till the king of the north gives the beast his armed forces,which is the second beast in revelation 13.
Then you can start counting.

In Revelation 12, yes. In Daniel 12, no.

And that is a conditional 42 months, not a guaranteed time. Those 42 months only happen if Satan is the 8th king. The Atonement Covenant is confirmed at the 7th Trumpet. Only then will God make that decision to extend time for 42 months.

Jesus is the 7th King declared at the 7th Trumpet. The decision will happen 3.5 days after the 7th Trumpet starts to sound. Even times, time and half a time can refer to 3.5 days.

 

[Timtofly]

There will be three options for the people in Israel.
Take the mark of the beast
Flee into the wilderness
Stay and preach the gospel and expect to be imprisoned and killed as Jesus was.

The only acceptable death is the act of being beheaded. That is the alter call of those 2 witnesses. One cannot remain in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Only those with the mark can live until Armageddon, and then they will die.

The only 2 witnesses (Christians as you put it) are the 2 individuals. No one redeemed, will be on the earth, other than those 2. Obviously chopping one's head off removes one from physical life. Those beheaded are only resurrected after Satan is bound. Those who fled into the wilderness are those on the sea of glass. See Revelation 15. That is where the sheep from Matthew 25 go for those 42 months. The sheep are the woman protected until after Satan's mystery Babylon. The beheaded have to wait to be resurrected.

The church was already removed from the earth at the 5th Seal.

 

[tailgator]

In Revelation 12, yes. In Daniel 12, no.

And that is a conditional 42 months, not a guaranteed time. Those 42 months only happen if Satan is the 8th king. The Atonement Covenant is confirmed at the 7th Trumpet. Only then will God make that decision to extend time for 42 months.

Jesus is the 7th King declared at the 7th Trumpet. The decision will happen 3.5 days after the 7th Trumpet starts to sound. Even times, time and half a time can refer to 3.5 days.

False
God's word doesn't change.
1260 days is a time,times and a half time.

And this amount of time is not conditional .It is the set time by God.

 

[tailgator]

The only acceptable death is the act of being beheaded. That is the alter call of those 2 witnesses. One cannot remain in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Only those with the mark can live until Armageddon, and then they will die.

The only 2 witnesses (Christians as you put it) are the 2 individuals. No one redeemed, will be on the earth, other than those 2. Obviously chopping one's head off removes one from physical life. Those beheaded are only resurrected after Satan is bound. Those who fled into the wilderness are those on the sea of glass. See Revelation 15. That is where the sheep from Matthew 25 go for those 42 months. The sheep are the woman protected until after Satan's mystery Babylon. The beheaded have to wait to be resurrected.

The church was already removed from the earth at the 5th Seal.

Now you preach Christ death by crucification is not acceptable.
You preach the only acceptable death is the act of beheading.

This is a false doctrine you teach.

Any death ,weather it be by stoning,crucification or beheading is acceptable.

Daniel 11:33
Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.


Who are you to judge if these saints death is acceptable to God?The fact that they are being put to death for their testimony is enough.

 

[Timtofly]

False
God's word doesn't change.
1260 days is a time,times and a half time.

And this amount of time is not conditional .It is the set time by God.

So is 42 months, 3.5 years, and 3500 years. What is your point?

Those 42 months in Revelation 13 either happen or they do not. They will not be shortened nor lengthened. After 42 months the 2 witnesses are killed. After 3.5 years the 2 witnesses are killed. After 1260 days the 2 witnesses are killed. That is all the time given to Satan as the 3rd woe.

3.5 days later the 2 witnesses are revived and raptured to heaven. Then, that day, between 5pm and 6pm is Armageddon. A Sunday as the end of the week of days of the 7th Trumpet. The 7th Trumpet being the week mentioned in Daniel 9:27.

The 70th week will end at the end of that one hour battle called Armageddon.

"And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them:"

They give their power and strength, armies, for the 1 hr. Battle of Armageddon, and are killed. That happens after the 2 witnesses are raised from death on Sunday morning.

 

[Timtofly]

Now you preach Christ death by crucification is not acceptable.
You preach the only acceptable death is the act of beheading.

This is a false doctrine you teach.

Any death ,weather it be by stoning,crucification or beheading is acceptable.

Daniel 11:33
Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.


Who are you to judge if these saints death is acceptable to God?The fact that they are being put to death for their testimony is enough.

Only those beheaded are mentioned in this verse:

"and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God"

Do you know that John told people not to add words like stoning and crucifixion to what he wrote, as that would bring down the plagues of Revelation upon that person?

Do you think John should have added your other means of death?

I never said that Jesus was not the acceptable Atonement. I said that the daily sacrifices removed was the offer of Salvation by grace through faith being removed by God. What do you recognize as this period of Abomination of Desolation? God literally marks humans and removes them from the Lamb's book of life. Satan wants people to be marked by God. Satan is not going to be the means of their salvation and faith, so not doing the beheading, as that is counter productive to receiving the mark.

My point is not judging them. My point would be to encourage them to take that step of faith called by John a beheading. That is the only act of faith that God rewards with a resurrection and a rule on earth with Christ.

 

[tailgator]

So is 42 months, 3.5 years, and 3500 years. What is your point?

Those 42 months in Revelation 13 either happen or they do not. They will not be shortened nor lengthened. After 42 months the 2 witnesses are killed. After 3.5 years the 2 witnesses are killed. After 1260 days the 2 witnesses are killed. That is all the time given to Satan as the 3rd woe.

3.5 days later the 2 witnesses are revived and raptured to heaven. Then, that day, between 5pm and 6pm is Armageddon. A Sunday as the end of the week of days of the 7th Trumpet. The 7th Trumpet being the week mentioned in Daniel 9:27.

The 70th week will end at the end of that one hour battle called Armageddon.

"And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them:"

They give their power and strength, armies, for the 1 hr. Battle of Armageddon, and are killed. That happens after the 2 witnesses are raised from death on Sunday morning.

Same as the false prophet with its two horns and the beast in revelation 13.Like the two witnesses the beast and false prophet have 42 months .Then they are destroyed.

The two witnesses as end into heaven in a cloud .
The cloud is part of armegeddon.So is the earthquake .

Don't worry about it.Afyet the United States armed forces drop a nuke on Jerusalem and the two witnesses ascend into heaven in that cloud,you will figure it out.

 

[tailgator]

Only those beheaded are mentioned in this verse:

"and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God"

Do you know that John told people not to add words like stoning and crucifixion to what he wrote, as that would bring down the plagues of Revelation upon that person?

Do you think John should have added your other means of death?

I never said that Jesus was not the acceptable Atonement. I said that the daily sacrifices removed was the offer of Salvation by grace through faith being removed by God. What do you recognize as this period of Abomination of Desolation? God literally marks humans and removes them from the Lamb's book of life. Satan wants people to be marked by God. Satan is not going to be the means of their salvation and faith, so not doing the beheading, as that is counter productive to receiving the mark.

My point is not judging them. My point would be to encourage them to take that step of faith called by John a beheading. That is the only act of faith that God rewards with a resurrection and a rule on earth with Christ.

False
You said only a beheading is acceptable to God.

As for the people in revelation 20 who are beheaded.They don't behead themselves.
They are murdered for their testimony of Jesus.
Like Stephen was stoned to death for testifying of Jesus.These are martyrs who died preaching the gospel.

Do you never read the gospel of Jesus Christ?Jesus tells his followers they will be killed because of his name at the time of the end.


Mathew 24:9
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

These christians are not beheading themselves.They are imprisoned and killed because they are preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[Timtofly]

Same as the false prophet with its two horns and the beast in revelation 13.Like the two witnesses the beast and false prophet have 42 months .Then they are destroyed.

The two witnesses as end into heaven in a cloud .
The cloud is part of armegeddon.So is the earthquake .

Don't worry about it.Afyet the United States armed forces drop a nuke on Jerusalem and the two witnesses ascend into heaven in that cloud,you will figure it out.

Jerusalem is not going to be nuked after Jesus has already built His Temple and set up His glorious throne in Jerusalem. Your vivid imagination has run amuck.

The FP is the mouth in Revelation 13:5-6

"And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven."

The mouth is the FP .

Satan is the one descending from the pit that was opened at the 5th Trumpet.

"And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit."


That is the first woe, when all those rebel angels are loosed after being in chains of darkness for thousands of years. They don't take on a human physical form, as a normal angel. They take on forms that are intended to torment humans. They don't go around doing mixed martial fights in human form. They are allowed a body that inflicts torment, but not death. Satan is their leader and is symbolized as freely moving in and out of the pit, like a front door to a mansion.

No human comes out of the pit has if they live in the pit as their home.

 

[Timtofly]

False
You said only a beheading is acceptable to God.

As for the people in revelation 20 who are beheaded.They don't behead themselves.
They are murdered for their testimony of Jesus.
Like Stephen was stoned to death for testifying of Jesus.These are martyrs who died preaching the gospel.

Do you never read the gospel of Jesus Christ?Jesus tells his followers they will be killed because of his name at the time of the end.


Mathew 24:9
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

These christians are not beheading themselves.They are imprisoned and killed because they are preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Why would you say murdered? That is not in Scripture. They are not even believers until they chop off their heads. That is their point of faith, and redemption out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh. They probably won't even understand that they will be resurrected. They are told they will be and they have faith in that redemption. Being beheaded is their testimony of faith. The only other choice is receiving the mark and being removed from the Lamb's book of life.

These 42 months are after the daily sacrifice is taken away. That means there is no salvation by grace through faith like you understand right now. This is the 42 months of Abomination of Desolation. This is when those 2 witnesses are going around "murdering" people as you put it. Chopping off heads would be their alter call, since you don't think these 2 witnesses are very exemplary. Satan is in control. Why would Satan facilitate in people being redeemed from a state of death into life? Satan does not want people's heads chopped off. Satan wants people to receive the mark and be removed from the Lamb's book of life.

Mark 24:9 is about the church for the last 2 millennia. It is not about those 42 months, post the 7th Trumpet and Second Coming, and people beheaded instead of receiving the mark.

No one is receiving the mark now, nor being removed from the Lamb's book of life.

 

[tailgator]

Jerusalem is not going to be nuked after Jesus has already built His Temple and set up His glorious throne in Jerusalem. Your vivid imagination has run amuck.

The FP is the mouth in Revelation 13:5-6

"And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven."

The mouth is the FP .

Satan is the one descending from the pit that was opened at the 5th Trumpet.

"And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit."


That is the first woe, when all those rebel angels are loosed after being in chains of darkness for thousands of years. They don't take on a human physical form, as a normal angel. They take on forms that are intended to torment humans. They don't go around doing mixed martial fights in human form. They are allowed a body that inflicts torment, but not death. Satan is their leader and is symbolized as freely moving in and out of the pit, like a front door to a mansion.

No human comes out of the pit has if they live in the pit as their home.

Jerusalem is nuked 1000 years before heavenly Jerusalem comes down out of heaven from God.

 

[tailgator]

Why would you say murdered? That is not in Scripture. They are not even believers until they chop off their heads. That is their point of faith, and redemption out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh. They probably won't even understand that they will be resurrected. They are told they will be and they have faith in that redemption. Being beheaded is their testimony of faith. The only other choice is receiving the mark and being removed from the Lamb's book of life.

These 42 months are after the daily sacrifice is taken away. That means there is no salvation by grace through faith like you understand right now. This is the 42 months of Abomination of Desolation. This is when those 2 witnesses are going around "murdering" people as you put it. Chopping off heads would be their alter call, since you don't think these 2 witnesses are very exemplary. Satan is in control. Why would Satan facilitate in people being redeemed from a state of death into life? Satan does not want people's heads chopped off. Satan wants people to receive the mark and be removed from the Lamb's book of life.

Mark 24:9 is about the church for the last 2 millennia. It is not about those 42 months, post the 7th Trumpet and Second Coming, and people beheaded instead of receiving the mark.

No one is receiving the mark now, nor being removed from the Lamb's book of life.

You believe the armed forces of the north has the power to take away Christs sacrifice which took place 2000 years ago?
You believe they are going to enter a time machine and go back and stop Jesus from offering himsrlf as sacrifice for our sins?
You have great faith in the man of sin and his armed forces.It sounds like blasphemy to me for you to say such a thing.
Pure blasphemy.

 

[tailgator]

Why would you say murdered? That is not in Scripture. They are not even believers until they chop off their heads. That is their point of faith, and redemption out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh. They probably won't even understand that they will be resurrected. They are told they will be and they have faith in that redemption. Being beheaded is their testimony of faith. The only other choice is receiving the mark and being removed from the Lamb's book of life.

These 42 months are after the daily sacrifice is taken away. That means there is no salvation by grace through faith like you understand right now. This is the 42 months of Abomination of Desolation. This is when those 2 witnesses are going around "murdering" people as you put it. Chopping off heads would be their alter call, since you don't think these 2 witnesses are very exemplary. Satan is in control. Why would Satan facilitate in people being redeemed from a state of death into life? Satan does not want people's heads chopped off. Satan wants people to receive the mark and be removed from the Lamb's book of life.

Mark 24:9 is about the church for the last 2 millennia. It is not about those 42 months, post the 7th Trumpet and Second Coming, and people beheaded instead of receiving the mark.

No one is receiving the mark now, nor being removed from the Lamb's book of life.

Mathew 24:9
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.


You say Mathew 24:9 is about the last 2 millinial.

Were you beaten in a synagogues and betrayed to death by your own family,?

You claim you were killed because of Jesus name?

Jesus Olivet discourse is about the final 42 months in Israel before Christ comes.These are Jesus followers being beaten in the synagogues and betrayed to death by family members.This isn't about the Catholic church having mass for the last 2 millinia,Jesus is describing what takes place during the tribulation of those days.

 

[Timtofly]

Jerusalem is nuked 1000 years before heavenly Jerusalem comes down out of heaven from God.

God does not need a human nuke. Do you think humans nuked Sodom and Gomorrah?

 

[Timtofly]

You believe the armed forces of the north has the power to take away Christs sacrifice which took place 2000 years ago?
You believe they are going to enter a time machine and go back and stop Jesus from offering himsrlf as sacrifice for our sins?
You have great faith in the man of sin and his armed forces.It sounds like blasphemy to me for you to say such a thing.
Pure blasphemy.

No, God is going to declare when Salvation ends.

Do you think sinners are going to escape God's wrath, and live on Mars forever?

I never posted any one other than God ends the daily sacrifice. You are the one using human reasoning, that thinks humans do what only God can do.

 

[tailgator]

God does not need a human nuke. Do you think humans nuked Sodom and Gomorrah?

God controls the nations who have nukes.
Unlike most people,I veiw the man of sin as a pawn of God.Just a pawn.

 

[tailgator]

No, God is going to declare when Salvation ends.

Do you think sinners are going to escape God's wrath, and live on Mars forever?

I never posted any one other than God ends the daily sacrifice. You are the one using human reasoning, that thinks humans do what only God can do.

The word of God says the armed forces of the north which takes away the daily sacrifice.
I will quote the word of God so you can learn it yourself.Try not to forget it as it will soon be fulfilled.Most likely ,next year.

Daniel 11:31
His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.