Premils won't understand the amil view until they understand this.

[Spiritual Israelite]

Christ is presently reigning in the hearts and minds of His elect saints, but that does not mean Christ is reigning on earth physically along with all His resurrected saints.

This does not happen until AFTER the first resurrection of the dead in Christ.

Daniel 7:22
Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Daniel was given a vision which is recorded in Daniel 7:2-14 and his vision was explained in verses 17 to 27. So, the part that Daniel 7:22 explains is what is written in Daniel 7:13-14.

Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

This is a description of the ascension of Jesus Christ which matches the description that Paul gave here:

Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Each passages talks about Jesus going to be where God the Father is, which is in heaven. God the Father is called "the Ancient of days" in the prophecy. It says the Son of man comes to the Ancient of days (God the Father) in Daniel 7:13, so that's how we know it's talking about His ascension. It doesn't say He is coming towards the earth there, it says He comes to God the Father and that could only occur in heaven.

It says in Daniel 7:14 "there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom". Is that not what is described in Ephesians 1:19-23 as well? It says God the Father "set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named". That sure seems like a description of Him being given dominion, and glory, and a kingdom to me!

So, it's a mistake to associate Daniel 7:22 with Christ's second coming when the context demands that it relates to His first coming.

 

[WPM]

Then what do you mean by "carnal thinking" because your language is not Biblical?

There you go again, diverting the conversation away from the topic at hand. Isn't your approach indicative of your inability to refute your own eyes?

I'm not only saying it, I asked everyone to look outside to see if I am right. Those who lookout side will draw one of two conclusions: 1) Jesus is ruling over the nations right now, but he is so inept and unwise that he is incapable of effecting God's righteousness on the earth, or 2) the corruption, partiality, greed, injustice, unrighteousness, immorality, child molestation, money laundering, child and woman trafficking among other evils are clear evidence that Jesus is NOT ruling over the nations. I chose to believe the latter.

Refute what I said above.

Before I answer that, consider 1 Samuel 8:4-7 and let me know what you think.

4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah; 5 and they said to him, “Behold, you have grown old, and your sons do not walk in your ways. Now appoint a king for us to judge us like all the nations.” 6 But the thing was displeasing in the sight of Samuel when they said, “Give us a king to judge us.” And Samuel prayed to the Lord. 7 The Lord said to Samuel, “Listen to the voice of the people in regard to all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me from being king over them.

Premillennialism is always elevating Satan. Premil is always exalting the power and influence of Satan. It portrays a small impotent Jesus, a powerless Church and a big devil. Amil and Postmil on the other hand have a big Jesus, a powerful Church and a small devil. There is multiple Scripture that shows the redeemed have power over Satan in this new covenant period. There is not one that says he has power over us. As the light is shone through the great commission, Satan is dethroned in the lives of humans and blindfolds are removed. Christ gave the Church power over Satan and his minions. They have authority to bind Satan and spoil his goods. We are the Lord's voice, hands and feet on this earth to enforce His will!

Premil is constantly exalting the power and influence of Satan and diluting the sovereign power and influence of Christ. That is nowhere more evident than in your constant rubbishing of Christ’s current kingship over His enemies at the right hand of majesty on high. Whether they mean to or not, Premils are always highlighting what Satan is doing in our day instead of what Christ is doing. Premil portrays a BIG devil and a small god, Amil has a small devil and a BIG God. In Premil, Satan seems sovereign in this age and God is curtailed. Premils are always lauding the ability of Satan since the cross. In Amil, Christ is sovereign and Satan is curtailed. Amils are always lauding the ability of Christ since the cross. As a consequence, Premil portrays an impotent beat-down New Testament Church, whereas Amil sees a victorious potent New Testament Church invading the nations with the good news of Christ and subjugating the powers of darkness as they do so. In Amil Christ reigns over all creation as God and His new creation as Saviour.

This is another reason why Premil should be rejected!

 

[Marty fox]

This is a strange thing for someone who believes in free will to say. Why would you think that Him reigning has something to do with controlling everything people do? Is that what reigning is? Being a dictator who controls everything people do? I guess you think God also has never reigned over the earth since He has allowed those things to occur almost since the beginning of time?

Is there something you don't understand about Jesus saying He has all authority and power in heaven and on earth (Matt 28:18)? Is that a confusing statement to you? Do you think He actually said He only has some authority in heaven and earth?

Is there anything confusing about what Paul wrote here:

Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Are you saying that Paul didn't know what he was talking about when he wrote this? Are you saying that it's not actually true that Jesus is in a place of authority "Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come"? Do you think it's not true that all things are under His feet? Do you think it's not true that He is "the head over all things to the church"?

Great post and to add to this

Revelation 3
14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:

These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation

 

[WPM]

Then what do you mean by "carnal thinking" because your language is not Biblical?

There you go again, diverting the conversation away from the topic at hand. Isn't your approach indicative of your inability to refute your own eyes?

I'm not only saying it, I asked everyone to look outside to see if I am right. Those who lookout side will draw one of two conclusions: 1) Jesus is ruling over the nations right now, but he is so inept and unwise that he is incapable of effecting God's righteousness on the earth, or 2) the corruption, partiality, greed, injustice, unrighteousness, immorality, child molestation, money laundering, child and woman trafficking among other evils are clear evidence that Jesus is NOT ruling over the nations. I chose to believe the latter.

Refute what I said above.

Before I answer that, consider 1 Samuel 8:4-7 and let me know what you think.

4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah; 5 and they said to him, “Behold, you have grown old, and your sons do not walk in your ways. Now appoint a king for us to judge us like all the nations.” 6 But the thing was displeasing in the sight of Samuel when they said, “Give us a king to judge us.” And Samuel prayed to the Lord. 7 The Lord said to Samuel, “Listen to the voice of the people in regard to all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me from being king over them.

Repeated Scripture shows that Christ is reigning now! He is reigning upon high now! He is King! He is Lord. All power and authority belongs to Him now. Your false teaching causes you to dethrone Christ from His sovereign place reigning over His enemies today.

You don’t seem to understand the term "right hand of power." It means: He carries the Father’s divine authority. He is currently enthroned. He testified after His resurrection: “All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth” (Matthew 28:18). This is sovereign kingship! He holds this today upon His Father’s throne. Him and the Father are one spiritually in authority.

How much more power than “all power ... in heaven and in earth” does He need to exercise power and authority over His enemies?

This proves that Christ has already come and now exercises all power and authority today over all mankind. It means: He carries the Father’s divine authority. He is currently enthroned. This is Sovereign kingship! He holds this today upon His Father’s throne as God and upon David’s throne as Messiah. Him and the Father are one spiritually in authority.

John says in Revelation 3:7, “These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath (present active particle) the key (or authority) of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth.”

He holds all power (without qualification). After all, He is God! God either causes or permits - as He is God and He is sovereign. Simple! That is an explicit biblical truth and a Christian fundamental. The powerful language that accompanies the mention of Christ holding the key of David proves that this is referring to His majestic power and might that came with taking the Messianic throne of David. It says, “he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth.” This speaks of spiritual power. The key allows Christ to sovereignly open and shut in a way that no man can thwart or override.

Philippians 2:9-11 says, “wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”

He reigns today over the seen and the unseen world making every power and every authority “subject unto him.”

Heaven’s authority is bestowed upon Christ. He is God! Colossians 2:9-10, 14-15 confirms: "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power … Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled (or divested or disarmed) principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.”

He rules intimately over His spiritual kingdom as Messiah and sovereignly over the physical kingdoms of the world and over all mankind as God.

 

[WPM]

Exactly, they ignore the obvious in order to promote the ridiculous. It is obvious that the Kingdoms of this present evil world are not serving Christ, neither are the saints reigning over the Kingdoms of this present evil world.

This is where Amils and Premils strongly disagree.

Paul confirms:

1 Corinthians 15:25-26: “For he must reign (present, active infinitive), till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.”

Here he shows that Christ is reigning now. It is written in the present, active infinitive sense. How long does he reign? He confirms: “till he hath put all enemies under his feet.” Again, this couldn’t be clearer! Every last enemy will be subjugated and subdued at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. The last enemy is identified as death!

There you have it! The second coming sees the final subjugation of all:

· rule
· authority
· power
· death

Paul then reinforces this thought:

1 Corinthians 15:27-28 “For ‘he hath put’ (aorist active indicative) (hupotasso or subordinated or submitted to) all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under (hupotasso or subordinated or submitted to) him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put (hupotasso or subordinated or submitted to) all things under him. And when all things shall be (hupotasso) subdued (or subordinated or submitted to) unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him (hupotasso or subordinated or submitted to), that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.”

Paul, again, repeats the great truth that God “hath put all things under his feet” as He reigns in majestic glory upon high. The reign described here is aorist active indicative, meaning it is ongoing. He also shows, whilst Christ is reigning over His enemies as Lord and God, they will NOT be made His footstool, subdued and put down until the second coming.

The whole focus here is the current reign of Christ upon the heavenly throne that will culminate in the final downfall of all his enemies when he appears. Then we'll his enemies finally be subdued, put down, and made his footstool.

Hebrews 1:2, 3, 2:9 says, “Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things … Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high … Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him.”

There it is! He is the supreme power. He is the government. He carries all authority. Whilst new enemies are being born every day, while new wicked regimes continually arise, Christ determines what He allows and what He doesn't. There is nothing that is not under Him. The world is NOT out of control. God has a plan and that plan will be fulfilled, when God sees fit.

1 Peter 3:22 says, that Christ, “who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God (now!!!); angels and authorities and powers being (currently!!!) made subject unto him.”

Without a doubt Christ is reigning over His enemies since the resurrection, waiting for their final predetermined put down. Those who question Christ’s current reign do great assault upon the truth of God’s Word and undermine the current sovereign kingly position that He now assuredly holds. They also circumvent clear New Testament writings that teach Christ is reigning now.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Exactly bro! They have a big devil and a small God. That goes with the territory of Premillennialism.

It's very sad to see. They don't understand the power and authority we have over our spiritual enemies because He who is within us is greater than he who is in the world (1 John 4:4)! Imagine what Jesus's disciples would have thought about the premil mindset. They would have completely rejected it.

Luke 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

What is described in the passage above is the perspective we should have now as well. We merely must resist the devil and he must flee from us (James 4:7). This kind of authority was not given to God's people until NT times. We have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us. If God is for us who can be against us? We are more than conquerors though Him that loved us (Romans 8:31-37)! The defeated and powerless premil mindset contradicts all of this.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Who do we reign over then in life?

In this life we are called to suffer, as Christ also suffered. And if we suffer with Him, we shall also reign with Him.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

1 Corinthians 4:8-13

King James Version

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8 Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you.
9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.
10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised.
11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;
12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:
13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.”

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

How can anyone still be reigning a thousand years with Christ after the thousand years have expired? If the text meant a thousand years and a little season, that's what the text would have said.

Instead of this--- and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years--this instead-- and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years and a little season.

The latter is adding to the text. Something one is not supposed to do. Has it ever crossed your mind that this purpose for reigning a thousand years with Christ, that once this thousand years have been fulfilled, this purpose for reigning a thousand years is no longer needed? That it has served it's purpose. And maybe it's now time for some testing instead. But I guess instead of something like that, you apparently must think it's a better idea to add to the text. Because clearly, nowhere in ch 20 does it ever say they reign with Christ a thousand years and a little season.

Are you even thinking about what you are saying here? How can you think that Jesus would ever stop reigning and that His kingdom would ever end?! Have you never read this:

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

In this life we are called to suffer, as Christ also suffered. And if we suffer with Him, we shall also reign with Him.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

1 Corinthians 4:8-13​

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King James Version​

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8 Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you.
9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.
10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised.
11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;
12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:
13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.”

You don't get it. We reign with Him by suffering for Him! That's how we identify with Him! He suffered for us, so we suffer for Him and reign with Him. We reign with Him by serving Him and that involves suffering.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

So, it's a mistake to associate Daniel 7:22 with Christ's second coming when the context demands that it relates to His first coming.

It is speaking of the second coming….

Daniel 7:2-27

King James Version

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2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.(=thousand years)
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
15 I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.
16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things.
17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;
20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

You don't get it. We reign with Him by suffering for Him! That's how we identify with Him! He suffered for us, so we suffer for Him and reign with Him. We reign with Him by serving Him and that involves suffering.

The suffering and sorrow will end after the resurrection ….

Isaiah 25:8
He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it.

Revelation 7:13-17

King James Version

​

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

 

[Marty fox]

The suffering and sorrow will end after the resurrection ….

Isaiah 25:8
He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it.

Revelation 7:13-17​

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King James Version​

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13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

These people were martyred and are now in heaven

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

These people were martyred and are now in heaven

This time of rest, peace, and dwelling safely on earth during the thousand year reign happens AFTER death is swallowed up in victory and the saints are given immortal glorified physical bodies…

Isaiah 25:8
He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it.

1 Corinthians 15:54
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[Marty fox]

This time of rest, peace, and dwelling safely on earth during the thousand year reign happens AFTER death is swallowed up in victory and the saints are given immortal glorified physical bodies…

Isaiah 25:8
He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it.

1 Corinthians 15:54
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Not according to scripture

Revelation 20:
7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

Then at the end of our world which is after the thousand year binding ends and satans little season

11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This time of rest, peace, and dwelling safely on earth during the thousand year reign happens AFTER death is swallowed up in victory and the saints are given immortal glorified physical bodies…

Isaiah 25:8
He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it.

1 Corinthians 15:54
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Yes, that will be in the eternal new heavens and new earth. John quoted Isaiah 25:8, also.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

So, the timing of 1 Corinthians 15:54 and Revelation 21:4 must be the same since they both are quoted in relation to the fulfillment of Isaiah 25:8. So, when do you think Revelation 21:4 will be fulfilled?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The suffering and sorrow will end after the resurrection ….

Isaiah 25:8
He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it.

Revelation 7:13-17​

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King James Version​

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13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Right. That's when eternity will be ushered in. Just mentioned this in my previous post, but John quoted Isaiah 25:8 here:

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

This is a reference to eternity, not an earthly millennial kingdom. Once death is swallowed up in victory then "there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain" as those things will be "passed away".

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Not according to scripture

Revelation 20:
7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

Then at the end of our world which is after the thousand year binding ends and satans little season

11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

The saints are raised BEFORE the thousand year reign ….

This time of rest, peace, and dwelling safely on earth during the thousand year reign happens AFTER death is swallowed up in victory and the saints are given immortal glorified physical bodies…

Isaiah 25:8
He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it.

1 Corinthians 15:54
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

During the thousand year reign Gods people are ((dwelling safely)) in Jerusalem …

Ezekiel 38:8-14

King James Version

​

8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.
10 Thus saith the Lord God; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:
11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.
13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?
14 Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord God; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?

 

[Marty fox]

The saints are raised BEFORE the thousand year reign ….

This time of rest, peace, and dwelling safely on earth during the thousand year reign happens AFTER death is swallowed up in victory and the saints are given immortal glorified physical bodies…

Isaiah 25:8
He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it.

1 Corinthians 15:54
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

During the thousand year reign Gods people are ((dwelling safely)) in Jerusalem …

Ezekiel 38:8-14​

​

King James Version​

​

​

8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.
10 Thus saith the Lord God; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:
11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.
13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?
14 Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord God; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?

Then how do people die after the thousand years as shown in the verses I provided to you?

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Then how do people die after the thousand years as shown in the verses I provided to you?

I was talking about during the thousand years not after.

 

[Marty fox]

I was talking about during the thousand years not after.

But you said that "death is swallowed up in victory" how could it be death is swallowed up in victory if people still die after? That happens below after the end of our world.



Revelation 21
4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’[b] or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”