Are Mormons Christians? (Latter Day Saints)

[Marymog]

The definition of "Protestant" is not "not Catholic" or "not pope pope followers".

With all possible respect, if you want to argue with Wrangler about gay marraiage and abortion, that has nothing to do with this "Are Mormons Christians" thread. It would be better all around to have the gay marriage discussion on a different thread.

Hey Jane,

My argument is not about gay marriage. My argument is about what @Wrangler stated: Mormons say they are Christian. That's good enough for me. And, as I pointed out, if a denomination says they condone gay marriage or abortion does that make them Christian. Just because a denomination, Mormons in this case, say they are Christian, does that make them Christian? That is the gist of our discussion. Thanks for your opinion though!

Thank you for agreeing with me. Mormons/LDS are Protestant since they do not follow the Pope (teachings of the Catholic Church).

Mary

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Thank you for agreeing with me. Mormons/LDS are Protestant since they do not follow the Pope (teachings of the Catholic Church).

Mary

There's more to the Christian umbrella than "Catholic or not"....

 

[Marymog]

A little grace and discernment would go a long way.

There is a debate forum that contains many threads. The reason it is called a ‘thread’ is because it is about a train of thought, a thread of analysis of a topic. If this were a sports forum there might be debate ‘threads’ for each sport. Then for each sporting event.

For instance, in tennis, my main man is Novak Djokovic. I’ve followed his career from the beginning. A few weeks ago he won a dramatic victory for Olympic gold against the #1 ranked player in the world. This man, Alcaraz, is the most talented player I have seen in nearly half a century of being a fan.

It is not WHO but WHAT. If a thread were to debate the Gold Medal match, it would be off topic to discuss last years World Cup in soccer.

That’s kind of what you are doing when this thread is about LDS and you write post after post debating gay marriage and abortion, which have nothing to do with LDS topic in the OP.

IF you want to debate churches that support gay marriage and abortion, feel free to start a new thread. They’re free!

Lol.....to discuss/debate Gay marriage and abortion was not the reason I brought up gay marriage and abortion @Wrangler @Jane_Doe22

Read post #480 (of which Wrangler, as usual, has not responded to) and you will see that I wrapped it all up in a nice little package with a bow.

Keeping it real with the facts........Mary

 

[Marymog]

There's more to the Christian umbrella than "Catholic or not"....

Ok....soooo if Mormons or LDS are not Protestant, what are they? And give your linguistic/dictionary evidence to back up what you say.

Patient Mary

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Ok....soooo if Mormons or LDS are not Protestant, what are they? And give your linguistic/dictionary evidence to back up what you say.

Patient Mary

By definition, Protestants are denominations that arose during the Protestant Reformation, as part of that movement in Europe. They viewed themselves as reforming Church from Catholic errors. Common theological characteristics are the solas, holding to the Creeds, little centralized organization, and generally rejecting a structured priesthood.

In contrast, LDS Christians are a Restorationist church: viewing themselves as directly restoring Christ's Church. The Creeds are not seen as authoritative, and don't hold to the solas. The LDS Christian Church does believe in on going revelation (public and personal) with an open scripture cannon. It is very centrally organized and believes heavily in the importance of priesthood.

 

[DJT_47]

You have to first truly understand what a Christian is and how one becomes a Christian. Because you believe in Christ doesn't make you a Christian. After belief, the biblical record indicates the believers were baptized into Christ which is consistent with Acts 2:38. By being baptized into Christ, your sins are remitted and the Lord adds you to the church (Acts2:47); this is the point that you become a child of God and a Christian. So, have Mormons done this? Have others done this? This IS the process.

 

[Super Kal]

Belief IN Jesus Christ, is not about…DID He exist….rather WHO He is…

Jehovah Witness…beliefs DO believe IN God and Jesus Christ the Son of God…

Muslims ….beliefs DO believe IN a god and that Jesus was a Prophet…

AND….a person belonging to an ORGANIZED Religion does NOT automatically MEAN they BELIEVE or PARTICIPATE in every Fraction of that Organization.

There are numerous…children, spouses, the curious, WHO attend Churches, Temples, Mosques…..WHO do not believe IN Almighty God, nor that Jesus was sent by God.

A relationship between ONE individual and the Lord God….IS ONLY Heartfully (truly) KNOWN…between the ONE individual and the Lord God Himself…
* Their Outer LOOKS, their National Citizenship, their attendance at particular meetings, DOES NOT give rise to an other KNOWING the “status” of their SALVATION…
Whether SAVED or SHALL BE SAVED.
* Rather, it is expressly a SPIRITUAL, one on one matter BETWEEN God and that one individual.

So... let me get this straight... and please correct me if I'm wrong common because I don't want to mischaracterize you or misrepresent you:

you are saying that Mormons, Muslims, and Jehovah's Witness, if they believe in what they consider to be Jesus- even if their own scriptures are in contradiction to what the Bible says about Jesus- that makes them a Christian, and they will be saved...
Is that what you are saying?

I ask this because:
Jehovah's Witness do not see Jesus Christ as God, they see him as a lesser being, the Archangel Michael
Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet, but they denied that Jesus was God made manifest in the flesh
Mormons believe that Jesus was a man who attained Godhood status through good works.

Three different viewpoints about Jesus, all contradicting not only one another, but also contradicting the Bible...
And you are saying that these people are saved, correct?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

You have to first truly understand what a Christian is and how one becomes a Christian. Because you believe in Christ doesn't make you a Christian. After belief, the biblical record indicates the believers were baptized into Christ which is consistent with Acts 2:38. By being baptized into Christ, your sins are remitted and the Lord adds you to the church (Acts2:47); this is the point that you become a child of God and a Christian. So, have Mormons done this? Have others done this? This IS the process.

Absolutely!

 

[Marymog]

By definition, Protestants are denominations that arose during the Protestant Reformation, as part of that movement in Europe. They viewed themselves as reforming Church from Catholic errors. Common theological characteristics are the solas, holding to the Creeds, little centralized organization, and generally rejecting a structured priesthood.

In contrast, LDS Christians are a Restorationist church: viewing themselves as directly restoring Christ's Church. The Creeds are not seen as authoritative, and don't hold to the solas. The LDS Christian Church does believe in on going revelation (public and personal) with an open scripture cannon. It is very centrally organized and believes heavily in the importance of priesthood.

Thanks for your response.

The Protestants that arose during the Reformation ALSO viewed themselves as directly restoring Christs Church. The LDS and Mormons continued this theory AFTER the Reformation of the 16th century. They protested the teachings of the original protesters AND the Catholic Church. They are broadly, BY COMMON DEFINITION, a Christian not of a Catholic or Eastern church AND a member of any of several church denominations denying the universal authority of the Pope

Thank you.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Thanks for your response.

The Protestants that arose during the Reformation ALSO viewed themselves as directly restoring Christs Church. The LDS and Mormons continued this theory AFTER the Reformation of the 16th century. They protested the teachings of the original protesters AND the Catholic Church. They are broadly, BY COMMON DEFINITION, a Christian not of a Catholic or Eastern church AND a member of any of several church denominations denying the universal authority of the Pope

Thank you.

Again, no. I just explained this.

 

[Wrangler]

By definition, Protestants are denominations that arose during the Protestant Reformation, as part of that movement in Europe. They viewed themselves as reforming Church from Catholic errors. Common theological characteristics are the solas, holding to the Creeds, little centralized organization, and generally rejecting a structured priesthood.

In contrast, LDS Christians are a Restorationist church: viewing themselves as directly restoring Christ's Church.

I don’t get the PRIDE involved in contradicting how people identify themselves theologically. The horrific lack of humility seen in this thread is not Christ like. In fact, it is like the anti-Christ.

You say you are Christian and not Protestant? That’s good enough for me. Did you read that @Marymog?

I’m reminded of a quote from Thomas Jefferson regarding religious liberty. If a man says there is no god or a 1,000 gods, it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my bones. Even if I have different opinions than @Jane_Doe22 does on doctrines, she has just as much a right to be wrong as I do.

 

[Taken]

So... let me get this straight... and please correct me if I'm wrong common because I don't want to mischaracterize you or misrepresent you:

you are saying that Mormons, Muslims, and Jehovah's Witness, if they believe in what they consider to be Jesus- even if their own scriptures are in contradiction to what the Bible says about Jesus- that makes them a Christian, and they will be saved...
Is that what you are saying?

I ask this because:
Jehovah's Witness do not see Jesus Christ as God, they see him as a lesser being, the Archangel Michael
Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet, but they denied that Jesus was God made manifest in the flesh
Mormons believe that Jesus was a man who attained Godhood status through good works.

Three different viewpoints about Jesus, all contradicting not only one another, but also contradicting the Bible...
And you are saying that these people are saved, correct?

If they …in their heart…believe in God and the one God Sent JESUS… they will be saved.

That ^^^ Is what God Requires.

It is Not about what an organization calls itself or what a cleric says but IF an individual Heartfully believes that statement.

 

[Super Kal]

If they …in their heart…believe in God and the one God Sent JESUS… they will be saved.

That ^^^ Is what God Requires.

It is Not about what an organization calls itself or what a cleric says but IF an individual Heartfully believes that statement.

That's not what I asked you.
I asked you if they believe in the Jesus that their religion teaches them, are they saved?
yes or no?

 

[Wrangler]

That's not what I asked you.
I asked you if they believe in the Jesus that their religion teaches them, are they saved?
yes or no?

Your question has an implied premise that is false.

There is only one Jesus of Nazareth. He is what he is. A is A. Your understanding of him @Jane_Doe22's understanding of him, my understanding of him DOES NOT CHANGE who/what he is. As I wrote earlier, @Jane_Doe22 does not follow Jesus of East LA.

You are as guilty as another poster invoking deconstructionism to develop your argument, introducing a requirement above and beyond what Scripture requires. It does not say you cannot believe in a Jesus that some denomination teaches about him. What Scripture says is what @Taken wrote:

If they …in their heart…believe in God and the one God Sent JESUS… they will be saved.

That ^^^ Is what God Requires.

It is Not about what an organization calls itself or what a cleric says but IF an individual Heartfully believes that statement.

NOTE: It does not say Jesus from Nazareth, from East LA or from a denomination's teaching! You seem to believe in a WHAT (set of doctrines about who the person is and is not) while others believe in a WHO (the one God sent).

My analogy is drowning at sea. A ship comes by and a man pulls me out of the water. I am not saved by a set of doctrines but by a person. This is why the man said, "I am the way, the truth and the light." Nothing about denominational doctrines.

 

[Wrangler]

Read post #480 (of which Wrangler, as usual, has not responded to) and you will see that I wrapped it all up in a nice little package with a bow.

No need for me to respond to it as it covered what I already addressed in post #475.

Poor Mary. You often deny that I did respond, answer, address your point on the basis that I did so but not in a way you prefer.

I don't think doing laps on a topic is edifying. Both me and @Jane_Doe22 said if you want to keep talking about gay marriage and abortion to start another thread. Beyond that, I am not going to answer your hijacking this thread, turning from the LDS to be about me. If that's not good enough, well, poor Mary, that is is too bad.

 

[Taken]

That's not what I asked you.
I asked you if they believe in the Jesus that their religion teaches them, are they saved?
yes or no?

I answered you a definitive yes according to Biblical Scripture of who is Saved and who shall be Saved.

No, I will not answer a definitive yes or no question regarding an unknown religion or an unknown Jesus.

 

[Super Kal]

a definitive yes

Thank you for answering my question.
I'm now putting you on ignore

 

[Taken]

And that's exactly what Mormonism, Islam, and the Jehovah's Witness follow... an unknown Jesus, a different Jesus, and yet you can't even admit that.

I have no obligation to agree with you regarding your claim what individuals I do not know believe.

Mormonism teaches that Jesus was a man who attained Godhood status in pre existence, was the literal son of the father, and was born in Jerusalem. That's what Mormonism teaches. Go to any Mormon website, go read the book of Mormon, go read the Pearl of Great Price, these are the books that the Mormon church calls scripture.

A teacher, A book, is NOT the measure by which God gives or withholds His Gift of Salvation.

Read what former Mormon presidents set about Jesus, read what Joseph Smith said about Jesus, Go read what the Mormon apostles said about Jesus.

I select what I choose to spend my time reading.

So I will ask you one last time:

Good.

Mormons, Muslims, and Jehovah's Witness claim they all put their faith in Jesus Christ.

That is an odd statement.
Faith is a gift from God, God offers to all men and puts IN men who hear/read the Bible.

According to each of these religions, all three of them describe a Jesus that is not found in the actual scriptures, the Holy Bible.

That is your conclusion, not mine.

Some religions have supplementary Books, that are not the Bible….not my business what others read. Not my obligation to read religious supplementary Books. Not my obligation to DECIDE an others belief.

A relationship between ONE individual and the Lord God is expressly between that ONE and the Lord God…regardless of a religious denomination organization they may or may not be a member of.

 

[Taken]

Thank you for answering my question.
I'm now putting you on ignore

Thank you for answering my question.
I'm now putting you on ignore

FRAUD…that was not my answer to your question…

My answer to YOUR question was…

No, I will not answer a definitive yes or no question regarding an unknown religion or an unknown Jesus.

 

[Marymog]

I don’t get the PRIDE involved in contradicting how people identify themselves theologically. The horrific lack of humility seen in this thread is not Christ like. In fact, it is like the anti-Christ.

You say you are Christian and not Protestant? That’s good enough for me. Did you read that @Marymog?

I’m reminded of a quote from Thomas Jefferson regarding religious liberty. If a man says there is no god or a 1,000 gods, it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my bones. Even if I have different opinions than @Jane_Doe22 does on doctrines, she has just as much a right to be wrong as I do.

Your "PRIDE" accusation makes no sense.

I never said that I am Christian and not Protestant. If I did...then quote me. (Hint, don't waste your time searching because I never said that)

Furthermore, that is not a quote from Thomas Jefferson. Here is what he actually wrote (actual quote): But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.

The horrific lack of honesty I have seen on this thread is not Christ like. In fact, it is like the ani-Christ.