Premils won't understand the amil view until they understand this.

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Marty fox

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Premils won't understand the amil view until they understand that the thousand-year reigning has nothing to do with the thousand-year binding. They have nothing to do with each other.

The cross and resurrection is the reason for both the thousand-year reigning and the thousand-year binding, but the thousand-year binding isn't the cause of the thousand -year reigning.

We reign because Jesus is God we don't reign because satan is bound.

Thats why Revelation chapter 20 shows us that satan in bound until he is released and that we reign until the end of our world at the Great White Throne Judgment day.
 
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TribulationSigns

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Premils won't understand the amil view until they understand that the thousand-year reigning has nothing to do with the thousand-year binding. They have nothing to do with each other.

The cross and resurrection is the reason for both the thousand-year reigning and the thousand-year binding, but the thousand-year binding isn't the cause of the thousand -year reigning.

We reign because Jesus is God we don't reign because satan is bound.

Thats why Revelation chapter 20 shows us that satan in bound until he is released and that we reign until the end of our world at the Great White Throne Judgment day.

Premillennialists won't understand. Neither will some amillennialists.

Rev 20:2-5
(2) And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
(3) And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
(4) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
(5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
(6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

All of the thousand years above is NOT speaking about the SAME time period at all! This is why the thousand years is symbolic and not literal. It is an
indeterminate length of time of whatever is in view. Not 1,000 literal years as most believe. For example:

1.) One time for Satan bound in the bottomless pit from the Cross until after the building of the Church is finished (Revelation 7:1-4) and the testimony of Two Witnesses is finished (Revelation 11:7).
2.) Another for all the Saints who took part in the First Resurrection in Christ (being born again) and reigning RIGHT NOW and FOREVER!
3.) Another for the rest of the dead (unsaved) who didn't have a part in the first resurrection will remain in the grave
UNTIL the SECOND resurrection when they will be resurrected to stand before the Lord at the Second Coming.


Thousand simply means "fullness of time" of whatever is in view regardless of the LENGTH of time!
 

Davidpt

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Premillennialists won't understand. Neither will some amillennialists.

Rev 20:2-5
(2) And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
(3) And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
(4) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
(5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
(6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

All of the thousand years above is NOT speaking about the SAME time period at all! This is why the thousand years is symbolic and not literal. It is an
indeterminate length of time of whatever is in view. Not 1,000 literal years as most believe. For example:

1.) One time for Satan bound in the bottomless pit from the Cross until after the building of the Church is finished (Revelation 7:1-4) and the testimony of Two Witnesses is finished (Revelation 11:7).
2.) Another for all the Saints who took part in the First Resurrection in Christ (being born again) and reigning RIGHT NOW and FOREVER!
3.) Another for the rest of the dead (unsaved) who didn't have a part in the first resurrection will remain in the grave
UNTIL the SECOND resurrection when they will be resurrected to stand before the Lord at the Second Coming.


Thousand simply means "fullness of time" of whatever is in view regardless of the LENGTH of time!

I doubt that you can, but I will ask anyway, convincingly explain (6) and how someone can be priests of God and of Christ, after they are dead, thus while they are in a disembodied state? I'm not saying you can't maybe explain it, I'm saying you can't convincingly do it. But maybe you will prove me wrong and say something that never crossed my mind before and that it makes sense to me?
 

Davidpt

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Premils won't understand the amil view until they understand that the thousand-year reigning has nothing to do with the thousand-year binding. They have nothing to do with each other.

The cross and resurrection is the reason for both the thousand-year reigning and the thousand-year binding, but the thousand-year binding isn't the cause of the thousand -year reigning.

We reign because Jesus is God we don't reign because satan is bound.

Thats why Revelation chapter 20 shows us that satan in bound until he is released and that we reign until the end of our world at the Great White Throne Judgment day.

Revelation 20 would not be saying saints lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years unless that's what they are doing. You're not making much sense here.
And look who Revelation 20:4 has living and reigning for a thousand years. Not someone still alive and not even dead yet. But someone who is already dead. They are physically dead first, then they live and reign after that have already died. A bodily resurrection is the only way to make sense of this.
 

Marty fox

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Revelation 20 would not be saying saints lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years unless that's what they are doing. You're not making much sense here.
And look who Revelation 20:4 has living and reigning for a thousand years. Not someone still alive and not even dead yet. But someone who is already dead. They are physically dead first, then they live and reign after that have already died. A bodily resurrection is the only way to make sense of this.
Before you look at details like this which can be interpreted in differently focus on the point of the OP
 

Marty fox

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Revelation 20 would not be saying saints lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years unless that's what they are doing. You're not making much sense here.
And look who Revelation 20:4 has living and reigning for a thousand years. Not someone still alive and not even dead yet. But someone who is already dead. They are physically dead first, then they live and reign after that have already died. A bodily resurrection is the only way to make sense of this.
Look at what Paul says about all of this below

Revelation 20:4
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

This is one of the most controversial verses in the entire bible and a lot of Christians believe that it has to be a future event because they believe that it's on the resurrection day. But according to Paul he stated three times that it was a current reality back in his day.

Here below are the three texts.

Ephesians 2:4-6
4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

In the verses above Paul states that we were already made alive, raised up and seated with Christ in the heavenly realms.

Colossians 3:1
Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Once again Paul states that we have already been raised up with Christ.

Romans 5:17
17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

Finally in the verse above Paul states that we reign in life through Jesus.

All of these verses were a current reality while alive in the physical body almost two thousand years ago. If it was a reality back, then it is still a reality today.

Paul ties three events directly to Revelation 20:4 "that we have been made alive", "seated with Christ in the heavenly realms" and that "we reign (in life) through Jesus".

Why do so many Christians not accept this even though Paul declares it? Because they are focused on it being physical not spiritual. They focus on the physical because it mentions saints that were beheaded by the beast and the thousand years.

But let's let scripture interpret scripture. Paul teaches that its spiritual and what John is saying in Revelation 20:4 is that even though the saints are beheaded they still live and reign spiritually the soul doesn't die with the body. It's a promise even though you may die for Jesus you will still live and reign spiritually. The beast can kill the body but not the soul.

Thus, according to Paul we reign in life now and have been for almost two thousand years we are not limited to a literal thousand years God has a better longer plan.
 

TribulationSigns

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I doubt that you can, but I will ask anyway, convincingly explain (6) and how someone can be priests of God and of Christ, after they are dead, thus while they are in a disembodied state? I'm not saying you can't maybe explain it, I'm saying you can't convincingly do it. But maybe you will prove me wrong and say something that never crossed my mind before and that it makes sense to me?

It is not up to me to convince you. I am merely a witness and only the Holy Spirit can reveal the truth to you.

First of all, I believe you still do not understand exactly what is the FIRST RESURRECTION is. We can't resurrect from the dead what has already been "resurrected from the dead," and we can't make something dead again that we've had an Oath made to us in the first resurrection that we can never die. Thus either our understanding is in error of the dead in Christ, or Christ made a mistake.

John 11:25-26
  • "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
  • And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"
I believe it. And if He's not talking about the Physical death of the body, He has to be talking about our Spiritual existence with Him. Please understand this, when we are born again in Christ, we are made SPIRITUALLY ALIVE inward instead of our flesh. At the moment, Christ has made us kings and priests in his kingdom to PREACH the gospel right now on Earth! RIGHT NOW, since we already have the first resurrection. We were saved and are part of God's Spiritual kingdom...ON EARTH - through the Church. Christ being the first resurrection means there is no need for a second because when our FLESH physically dies, we simply transfer, leaving the body of this death to go to the Spiritual realm of Heaven and CONTINUE reign with Christ. Guess what? FOREVER!

Thus at the Second Coming, Christ will bring those who have physically died (speaking as a man) with Him when He comes again because all of those people who have already spiritually resurrected in Christ (born again) while they were on Earth. Also, note that it says "though he were dead, yet shall he live." In other words, Christ is saying the person may have died in man's earthly vernacular, but from the heavenly perspective, he lives on and is not dead. Christ is not saying he's dead but He'll live from that death later, but even if you die, you shall be alive. Your flesh body is dead, but in your spirit you were ALREADY alive, living and reigning with Christ, whether you are still physically alive on Earth or in heaven after you physically died.

2nd Corinthians 5:6-8
  • "Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
  • (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
  • We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."

For the Christian to be absent from the body in death is to be alive, present with the Lord and reigning together with him. But from man's perspective on earth (whom the scriptures are talking to) the person has died. From the true perspective, he's not dead but alive and reigning with Christ.

Revelation 20:4-5
  • "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
  • But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

Now, the rest of "what" dead? Obviously, the dead who have physically died but didn't have part in the first resurrection (spiritually born again while on Earth). Clearly some souls of the dead go to live and reign with the Lord (according to scripture), while the rest of the souls don't live again until the second resurrection when we read that they are raised up to stand for judgment.

1st Thessalonians 4:13-14
  • "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
  • For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."
Jesus died and was resurrected up to new life and so were the saints! Thus they cannot be dead in the sense that they are in the grave in a state of unconsciousness waiting for the second resurrection. Remember, we are already made alive while on earth. So those who have physically died, their souls will be with Christ, and Christ will bring the dead (speaking as a man) back with him. Because "though they are dead, yet they live." When the scriptures say Christ will bring the dead with him, or that the dead in Christ shall be raised first, he's talking to those of us on earth who speak of those who have departed as the dead. Because obviously, no one in Christ is dead. So He's not saying those who have died are actually dead/not-alive, because that contradicts other scriptures that clearly say that the dead in Christ both live, and that they that they never die. That's not a metaphor, they actually never die. Notice it doesn't say the "dead will be changed", but only those who remain and are alive will be changed in an instant. Because flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of heaven, but those coming from heaven don't need to be changed. We have two options. Either there are no saints in heaven with spiritual bodies, or they have their spiritual being already because they are in heaven. We can't have it both ways. Moreover, the 24 elders represent the saints of God in heaven, so we have other evidence of this truth.
 
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Douggg

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Everything in Revelation 20 is after Jesus's Return, His Second Coming, in Revelation 19.
 

Truth7t7

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And look who Revelation 20:4 has living and reigning for a thousand years. Not someone still alive and not even dead yet. But someone who is already dead. They are physically dead first, then they live and reign after that have already died. A bodily resurrection is the only way to make sense of this.
Those seen in Rev 20:4 are souls that have been killed, the believer in Jesus Christ never dies and reigns in the physical and spiritual with Christ, once you grasp the fact that believers are children of the "Living" you have arrived

Revelation 20:4KJV
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 6:9-10KJV
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

John 11:25-26KJV
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
 

Truth7t7

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Everything in Revelation 20 is after Jesus's Return, His Second Coming, in Revelation 19.
False, Jesus returns in fire and final judgement (The End) there isn't going to be a millennial kingdom on this earth as many falsely believe and teach
 
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CadyandZoe

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Premils won't understand the amil view until they understand that the thousand-year reigning has nothing to do with the thousand-year binding. They have nothing to do with each other.

The cross and resurrection is the reason for both the thousand-year reigning and the thousand-year binding, but the thousand-year binding isn't the cause of the thousand -year reigning.

We reign because Jesus is God we don't reign because satan is bound.

Thats why Revelation chapter 20 shows us that satan in bound until he is released and that we reign until the end of our world at the Great White Throne Judgment day.
Amils don't understand that neither Jesus nor we reign at the moment. Look out the window.
 
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Marty fox

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To add to this, I believe that many Christians today just like the first century Jews have the wrong understanding of the reigning. Jesus first advent wasn't what they though it was going to be and they missed it and rejected him and killed Him.

Today I believe that many Christians have also misunderstood it too and although this isn't a salvation issue Jesus had a much better plan.
 

TribulationSigns

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Amils don't understand that neither Jesus nor we reign at the moment. Look out the window.

What do you expect? A world peace where a lion sit next to a lamb? No war? No hatred? No crimes? A literal throne for you to rule over some cities?

Your are looking out of the window and see wars, famibes, diseases, financial disasters, etc so you decided to deny that the kingdom of God is already here through His people the church?? Sad!!
 

Marty fox

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As I say, look out the window. Ask yourself if Jesus or his followers are currently ruling over the earth. I don't think so.
Yes we are, we are reigning just not how you think it should be. We are still mortal and will die but spiritually alive reigning forever.