Does Christian Universalism deny the justice of God?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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Hello Kal,
Jesus paid that price. That is all covered. Sometimes I wonder if going through the fire in the afterlife is a purgative burning out all the excessive non-faith or something which they had previously after leaving the Earth. You may disagree with me, but I'll tell you there is nowhere in the bible which speaks of "no second chance." Just saying, the reason why I believe this way is because the whole new picture in Revelation 21,22. I believe that Jesus overcame the second death, if he had the keys to all death.
Just sharing, some people find this information appalling or even, just straight up not true.
Show me in the Bible where it says “no more second chances.”
Just read revelation 21,22…
There are faithless people on the outside of the gates….
Why are faithless people claimed to be outside of the gates of the city in heaven?
Hello there, PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE POST Many people believe that God is going to destroy people in the lake of fire, but is that true? In Revelation 20, you see that the devil, the false prophet, the beast are all placed in the lake of fire forever; and then following those who name was not...
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Revelation 22:1-3 NIV
Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life,
as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb
2 down the middle of the great street of the city.
On each side of the river stood the tree of life,
bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month.
And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.
3 No longer will there be any curse.
The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city,
and his servants will serve him.
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Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life,
as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb
2 down the middle of the great street of the city.
On each side of the river stood the tree of life,
bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month.
And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.
3 No longer will there be any curse.
The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city,
and his servants will serve him.
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That is only a portion of the scrolls whole. What about it? Is the a physical reality a spiritual reality?
Curse or no curse, you still have people outside the gates. . .
Try to tear holes in the Bible it never works out.
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Nothing is left to chance.
Countless billions never had what you would call a "first chance".
What is to become of them?
--- PARODY ---
God: Welcome to the afterlife.
Person: Who are you?
God: I created you for my own purposes.
Person: Like what?
God: For destruction.
Person: What does that mean?
God: You will be annihilated.
Person: Why?
God: It was my choice for you.
Person: What did I do to deserve this?
God: You were born a sinner.
Person: Not by my choice.
God: Right. By my choice.
Person: Was that fair?
God: It doesn't matter. You can't stop me.
Person: Who did you say you were again?
You sound more like the Devil than God.
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You gonna ignore me?
Countless billions and going on some parody isn’t getting anything solved.
If you’re not gonna respond to me. It’s fine, though I’ll get off your thread.
You got a heart for God but you don’t seem to accept his set up of separation… atleast you never admitted to it existing or posing to exist, that’s the big difference between our views.
I don’t hate you as a human being. But our views are strikingly different.
I might. Is that a problem?
Solved?
What do we need to do to get anything solved?
Don't you care about countless billions?
Imagine that you are in hell. You are on fire and it hurts even more than you thought it would.
And the insanity is that it never stops. Once all your flesh is burned away you experience a split second of relief.
Then it starts all over again in a never ending cycle. And it's not just you.
You are in a stew of billions of others experiencing the same thing. Most have no idea why they are there.
No. You have the right to be on any thread you choose, or respond to any post you want. As do I.
No, I recognize a separation. "Each in turn..."
1 Corinthians 15:22-24 NIV
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has
destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
We should expect to encounter differing views on a religion forum. Were you expecting an echo chamber of agreement?
You don't "hate me"? That's an interesting declaration. Is "don't hate" at least half way to love?
This is a real problem in Christianity. The idea that we think we have to love someone because we are Christians. We are COMMANDED to love. So we pretend as best we can to "love" others. Usually by being indifferent to them (which I believe is worse than hatred)
The Limited Aspect of Christian Love - "I love you, but I don't like you."
As Christians, we are commanded to "love everyone". But that doesn't mean we need to LIKE them, right? RIGHT? - Have you found yourself in the position of having to "love" someone that is unlovable? - What does it mean to "like" someone? - Is "like" greater than, or even EQUAL to, love? ---...
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Nope.
That got to see God's glory in the heavens and his handiwork in the firmament. Nope.
Nope. Hell was a place for departed souls. Prison, and Paradise. I can't imagine a place I never been to other than, the prison side was more desiring while the paradise place was seemingly restful but probably desiring to get their resurrected bodies.
No doubt.
Okay, so you do believe in heaven their is a kingdom which their is a place where God resides and those outside the gates reside. That is good then.
As long as you understand that I do not believe the same as you do, we are good.
You have agreed to at least believing in a separation. That is some progress.Im just being straight forward.
I really even hate using the word(s)"I love you." Love is paramount as a Yeshuan. Love God, and love your neighbor as yourself and to love yourself is to acquire wisdom and Yahavah give wisdom freely to those who ask him.
Im probably indifferent most of the time but that is a brain chemistry problem I think.
I believe you can be very annoying sometimes, I am sure I can be too. Is it not loving to be straightforward? To some, nah.The Limited Aspect of Christian Love - "I love you, but I don't like you."
As Christians, we are commanded to "love everyone". But that doesn't mean we need to LIKE them, right? RIGHT? - Have you found yourself in the position of having to "love" someone that is unlovable? - What does it mean to "like" someone? - Is "like" greater than, or even EQUAL to, love? ---...
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@St. SteVen I can say this in admission, hand to God.
God takes life, and gives life. When it comes to Yahavah taking life, or giving life. I have no say.
When it comes to individuals who are threatening to take away someones life, I have the ability to call the police.
But in the end, God taking life, and giving life, I am truly no bothered by it in the least anymore. Cause hell is over with, and the kingdom is established.
No one dies and goes to hell. They go to the heavenly realm, outside the gates or inside the city.
God takes life, and gives life. When it comes to Yahavah taking life, or giving life. I have no say.
When it comes to individuals who are threatening to take away someones life, I have the ability to call the police.
But in the end, God taking life, and giving life, I am truly no bothered by it in the least anymore. Cause hell is over with, and the kingdom is established.
No one dies and goes to hell. They go to the heavenly realm, outside the gates or inside the city.
@MatthewG
Here's the point. What sort of a God would create and implement something like that?
And who created such a god?
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I dont understand your point...
God gives life and creates us in the womb, and it seems he takes our lives (souls) and transfers them at death. My point is that if Jesus Christ has not came and restored everything, then people are indeed still in hell, and the bride of Christ is not ready, and we need to be doing EVERYTHING within the context of the Gospels according to what Jesus said, and Paul said, and we need to be doing those things now. People who die now, are kept in hell, etc etc... Idk why you disregard these things but yeah... the more I try to talk to you about it, the more you wanna....
Question Yahavah? The heck you talking bout man? I don't not get it. Who is Yahavah to have even let us be created... a Good God. Who let us decide to have him in life or not, just like the prior countless billions. BIBLE OR NO BIBLE. It doesn't matter.
But I digress, if it doesn't matter to you personally then I need to stop caring to admit it to you.
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This is such a sadistic thing to create. Why would a God of love do such a thing?
Are children allowed to ask questions of their parent?
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I don’t see it as sadistic, I don’t get my feelings caught up with it. Yahavah flooded the world and people still blame him for being evil, even while he regretted his decision … at least he forthcoming about it… Steven im not a man that gets caught up in his “feelings”, I just accept God giving life and taking it as a fact… faithfully and God doesn’t even owe me the life I breathe in now.
I don’t see where God received pleasure for inflicting pain… Yahvah is transferring souls from one plane of realty to the next upon death… that’s not inflicting pain unless the fires of his love burn through you… that might just be painful, but I don’t think Yahavah enjoys that.
That’s painful to the one whom is losing their self to Yahavah and perhaps after that fire they are renewed somehow.
Yahava is pleased by faith. Not pain… you got some issues if you only think of Yahava as God that inflicts pain, he will inflict chastenment, on those who are his a his, but … idk what to say.
I guess even Christian are burned in Yahavahs Fire… baptized in the Holy Spirit and “fire.”
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That doesn’t say “no second chances.” That just speaks of judgement and destination… “outside the city or inside the city.” You’re forgetting the images show in Revelation 21,22… this is why I can say this.
Traditionally, it’s been taught “no second chances” I’ll say going through life with Yahavah is better than the latter. You’re going through the fire now, burning the darkness away from individuals heart. Now. Rather than later that fire later which purges out their own darkness, in the heavens…
But I digress, it’s just speculation based on the scripture, hopefully sharing by the Holy Spirit of Yahavah within me. Many people don’t take the Bible as a whole and instead butcher it, causing a hole. Just like sharing this one passage and saying “no second chances.” Gods fire is everlasting, and therefore, fire seems to be present in front of Yahavah.
I don’t know how spirits feel fire, but all I know it’s a good thing… and not throwing a person on an open fire in this life… in which screams and pain and agony insues.
The pain I see the fire causing is the person coming to the light which hurts because they aren’t ready yet until they do receive him.
Then perhaps just perhaps a person on the outside of the gate can come in “to the gates which never close.”
This a lot, deep, and to many nonsensical, but what hope one has is on their heart and I share mine, in the face of anyone who is willingly to listen.
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I'm familiar with that apologetic argument. It doesn't hold water. IMHO
That says humans get only one physical life. And there is "judgment" (evaluation) in the afterlife.
Nothing about chances, except the "chance" to have a physical human life here on earth.
Romans 2:14-16 NIV
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law,
do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves,
even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,
their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts
sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets
through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
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Super Kal
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That verse does not imply that universal reconciliation is biblical. What it means is that these individuals, who were never given the gospel, will be held to the standard in which God had revealed to them through the natural world.
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