The six things of Daniel 9:24

[Eternally Grateful]

Are you saying that Jesus did not fulfill these 6 elements mentioned in 9:24? They were listed in the prophecy... if He did not fulfill them, why are they listed that He would ... or, are you suggesting they have yet to be fulfilled --- He will fulfill them at His second coming?

Did He fulfill any one of them at His first coming?

Does it not say that 70 weeks.... for your people and your holy city to .....(finish / make an end / reconcile / bring in / seal up / anoint....Which of these did Jesus not complete and why?

where do you see it is listed he will fulfill them, Its not about Jesus, Its about Daniels people and Holy City

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Are you saying that Jesus did not fulfill these 6 elements mentioned in 9:24?

You obviously didn't read any of my previous posts. Please read post #4 in this thread to see how I interpret Daniel 9:24.

They were listed in the prophecy... if He did not fulfill them, why are they listed that He would ... or, are you suggesting they have yet to be fulfilled --- He will fulfill them at His second coming?

He fulfilled them all. I'm simply saying there was no requirement for them to be fulfilled in the order they are listed in Daniel 9:24.

Did He fulfill any one of them at His first coming?

He fulfilled all of them. Again, read my post #4 in this thread.

Does it not say that 70 weeks.... for your people and your holy city to .....(finish / make an end / reconcile / bring in / seal up / anoint....Which of these did Jesus not complete and why?

How in the world did you get that I was saying He didn't fulfill those things from my post? This is absolutely baffling.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why do you say in #113 that only Jesus, and not the Jews can complete the 6 elements.... and then you said, He did...

What do you not understand about that? Do you believe He didn't fulfill all those six things?

Can you explain why you respond to my comment disagreeing that Jesus did not fulfill them and in response to Dougg, you say He did? Please explain...

You were agreeing with the contention that they all needed to be fulfilled in order, were you not? I am saying that is not the case. I am NOT saying Jesus didn't fulfill them. See my post #4. He was anointed even before His death, so the anointing of the most Holy did not need to occur before He made reconciliation for iniquity, etc. by way of His death.

 

[CTK]

What do you not understand about that? Do you believe He didn't fulfill all those six things?


You were agreeing with the contention that they all needed to be fulfilled in order, were you not? I am saying that is not the case. I am NOT saying Jesus didn't fulfill them. See my post #4. He was anointed even before His death, so the anointing of the most Holy did not need to occur before He made reconciliation for iniquity, etc. by way of His death.

First, I was not saying that He fulfilled them in the exact order, but I was responding to another poster who seemed to need to understand they were fulfilled in order for him to accetp they were indeed fulfilled (at least that is the way I interpreted it) ... so I was offering a reasonable response to the order within 9:24....and give him something to consider.

I did not read your earlier post #4....

And, in your response #112 to me, you specifically said "you completely disagree," and then went on to question. "When do you see everlasting righteousness being brought in exactly?"

And then in #113, your claim that Jesus is the only one who could fulfill them and did in fact fulfill them seemed to contradict your response to me....

I think that about covers it.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

First, I was not saying that He fulfilled them in the exact order, but I was responding to another poster who seemed to need to understand they were fulfilled in order for him to accetp they were indeed fulfilled (at least that is the way I interpreted it) ... so I was offering a reasonable response to the order within 9:24....and give him something to consider.

I did not read your earlier post #4....

And, in your response #112 to me, you specifically said "you completely disagree," and then went on to question. "When do you see everlasting righteousness being brought in exactly?"

I disagreed that the six things had to be fulfilled in any certain order. I didn't know you were saying they were all fulfilled by Christ. What is your understanding of the anointing of the most Holy exactly then?

And then in #113, your claim that Jesus is the only one who could fulfill them and did in fact fulfill them seemed to contradict your response to me....

I think that about covers it.

Just some miscommunication then. It looks like we actually agree on how Daniel 9:24 was fulfilled.

 

[CTK]

I disagreed that the six things had to be fulfilled in any certain order. I didn't know you were saying they were all fulfilled by Christ. What is your understanding of the anointing of the most Holy exactly then?


Just some miscommunication then. It looks like we actually agree on how Daniel 9:24 was fulfilled.

Jesus arrived on the first day of the 70th week where He was baptized in the Jordan by John. At that same time, He was also anointed by His Father .... Jesus Himself claimed He was anointed --- Luke 4:16-30.

 

[covenantee]

That translation is different from the kjv, and most other translations.

Bible Hub lists presents these translations of that verse...

Galatians 6:16 Parallel: And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

What translation did you copy and paste from ?

From Strong's definition that I quoted.

I thought that was evident.

Prior to the appearance of dispensational futurism in the 19th century, the understanding of Galatians 6:16 was not in question.

 

[covenantee]

where do you see it is listed he will fulfill them, Its not about Jesus, Its about Daniels people and Holy City

Did Jesus fulfill "reconciliation for iniquity" for the 3,000 of Daniel's people in Jerusalem who received Him on the Day of Pentecost? Acts 2:41

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jesus arrived on the first day of the 70th week where He was baptized in the Jordan by John. At that same time, He was also anointed by His Father .... Jesus Himself claimed He was anointed --- Luke 4:16-30.

Yes, exactly. So, that was not the last thing in the list to be fulfilled, but rather the first, right?

So, why is it that you said this:

Daniel 9:24 outlines six key objectives that the Messiah would accomplish, and the order in which they are listed follows a logical progression.

You proceeded to show your understanding of that "logical progression" and you had the anointing of the most Holy last in order in that progression. That seems to contradict what you're saying now.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

where do you see it is listed he will fulfill them, Its not about Jesus, Its about Daniels people and Holy City

Not about Jesus? It's ALL about Jesus and what He would do for Daniel's people. Do you somehow miss the two references to the Messiah in Daniel 9:24-27? How else can reconciliation for iniquity be made apart from Jesus?

Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

 

[CTK]

Yes, exactly. So, that was not the last thing in the list to be fulfilled, but rather the first, right?

So, why is it that you said this:

You proceeded to show your understanding of that "logical progression" and you had the anointing of the most Holy last in order in that progression. That seems to contradict what you're saying now.

As I mentioned before, I was trying to provide him with a reasonable progression of the 6 elements within 9:24, otherwise, he did not seem to want to accept they were even fulfilled...

Now, I will also say that the progression of the 6 in the order they are given does work.... but if you have a different understanding or if you think they are simply recorded randomly - which I don't believe anything in the Scriptures are done without purpose, please let me know your opinion on the order of these 6.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

As I mentioned before, I was trying to provide him with a reasonable progression of the 6 elements within 9:24, otherwise, he did not seem to want to accept they were even fulfilled...

You don't have to resort to that in order to cater to people who insist on believing false doctrine.

Now, I will also say that the progression of the 6 in the order they are given does work.... but if you have a different understanding or if you think they are simply recorded randomly - which I don't believe anything in the Scriptures are done without purpose, please let me know your opinion on the order of these 6.

How can you have the anointing of the most holy last in order after saying "Jesus arrived on the first day of the 70th week where He was baptized in the Jordan by John. At that same time, He was also anointed by His Father .... Jesus Himself claimed He was anointed --- Luke 4:16-30.". I can't understand that. What you said there has the anointing of the most Holy first in order, right?

As for my order, it's simple. I believe He was anointed first, as you showed yourself. I have that same understanding of the anointing of the most Holy. The rest of the six things were fulfilled by His death and resurrection. And, again, you can see how I interpret Daniel 9:24 by looking at post #4 in this thread.

 

[CTK]

You don't have to resort to that in order to cater to people who insist on believing false doctrine.


How can you have the anointing of the most holy last in order after saying "Jesus arrived on the first day of the 70th week where He was baptized in the Jordan by John. At that same time, He was also anointed by His Father .... Jesus Himself claimed He was anointed --- Luke 4:16-30.". I can't understand that. What you said there has the anointing of the most Holy first in order, right?

As for my order, it's simple. I believe He was anointed first, as you showed yourself. I have that same understanding of the anointing of the most Holy. The rest of the six things were fulfilled by His death and resurrection. And, again, you can see how I interpret Daniel 9:24 by looking at post #4 in this thread.

I understand. But there is more than one way to look at things .... if the physical event or action of the 6 elements speaks to you, that is fine. However, the way I presented the 6 elements were not based on the physical fulfillment, but highlights the movements from dealing with sin (beginning of the consequences after the fall) to the end of things when He will restore our righteousness and bring us back to be with Him in a perfect state of existence.

 

[CTK]

You don't have to resort to that in order to cater to people who insist on believing false doctrine.

Sometimes, I will read someone's response and come away having a very difficult time understanding how they arrived at their interpretation. In this case, I had not given any real consideration to the order of the 6 elements in 9:24. I focused on their fulfillment, and I would never have considered them unfulfilled merely by the order they were given. Consequently, I attempted to put forth a reasonable argument to how these 6 elements might be thought of if their order was indeed intentional. This was more to secure the understanding that Jesus did fulfill all 6 while He was on the earth during His 3.5 years.

So, in doing this, I did in fact learn something that I had not considered earlier.

How can you have the anointing of the most holy last in order after saying "Jesus arrived on the first day of the 70th week where He was baptized in the Jordan by John. At that same time, He was also anointed by His Father .... Jesus Himself claimed He was anointed --- Luke 4:16-30.". I can't understand that. What you said there has the anointing of the most Holy first in order, right?

As for my order, it's simple. I believe He was anointed first, as you showed yourself. I have that same understanding of the anointing of the most Holy. The rest of the six things were fulfilled by His death and resurrection. And, again, you can see how I interpret Daniel 9:24 by looking at post #4 in this thread.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The 70th week is still unfulfilled as the vision in Daniel 9:24 to be fulfilled is that of the time of the end 2300 days activities of the little horn person - requiring the 2520 days of the 7 year 70th week to fit into.

No, the final week of Daniel 9:27 has already started at the Cross and is IN PROCESS until the Second Coming. So to claim that the 70th week has not yet started after your so-called imaginary "gap theory" is false and unbiblical because you focus on modern "national Israel" and waiting for the arrival of "Beast king" and 7 years peace treaty. That is pretty absurd!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I understand. But there is more than one way to look at things .... if the physical event or action of the 6 elements speaks to you, that is fine. However, the way I presented the 6 elements were not based on the physical fulfillment, but highlights the movements from dealing with sin (beginning of the consequences after the fall) to the end of things when He will restore our righteousness and bring us back to be with Him in a perfect state of existence.

Unfortunately, what you did, knowingly or not, was give credibility to the claim that the six things had to be fulfilled in order, as someone else was claiming. But, that claim does not have any credibility as the text itself does not indicate that they had to be fulfilled in the order they were listed.

 

[Keraz]

Jesus did fulfill all 6 while He was on the earth during His 3.5 years.

But those six tenets of Daniel 9:24 are not yet fulfilled. That is perfectly evident in the world today.
What Jesus did, was to make it so they could be fulfilled. To finally happen at His glorious Return.

An example of the confusion of some here, is that it is the Holy Place that will be anointed, not Jesus; who was anointed at His Baptism.

Unfortunately, what you did, knowingly or not, was give credibility to the claim that the six things had to be fulfilled in order, as someone else was claiming. But, that claim does not have any credibility as the text itself does not indicate that they had to be fulfilled in the order they were listed.

I have to say that if a shuffling of scripture is required to make a theory work, then alarm bells ring and it is very suspect.

 

[CTK]

But those six tenets of Daniel 9:24 are not yet fulfilled. That is perfectly evident in the world today.
What Jesus did, was to make it so they could be fulfilled. To finally happen at His glorious Return.

An example of the confusion of some here, is that it is the Holy Place that will be anointed, not Jesus; who was anointed at His Baptism.

I have to say that if a shuffling of scripture is required to make a theory work, then alarm bells ring and it is very suspect.

Completely disagree! You are looking at the world to determine if Jesus fulfilled His God given 6 elements to have been fulfilled.


Example: I have heard it said with tremendous conviction that Jesus did not fulfill them because sin still exists. Look at the world, people are still killing each other, it is a terrible place …

Well, they are indeed correct… the world is still fallen and sin abounds!

But Jesus did not come to eliminate sin in the world. He did not come to remove man’s “sin nature.” He did succeed in removing our sin should we place our faith in Him and the sacrifice on the cross. At our resurrection, He will not remember or see our sin. We will be clothed in His righteousness.

Do not look at the world or man’s sin nature, wars, disease, etc. Jesus indeed fulfilled all that was asked of Him!!!!!!!

And it is NOT the holy place that was anointed. It was the Messiah who was anointed at the time He was baptized in the Jordan on the first day of His ministry - the first day of the 70th week of the prophecy.

The physical structures- the Temples, the Sanctuary were holy ONLY because they housed the presence of God. Otherwise, just brick and mortar. Jesus is our Lamb of God, our daily bread, the light of the world, our High Priest, our Temple, and of course, our Sanctuary.
Those physical things were just a type and shadow of the coming Messiah. He fulfilled each and every one of them and had “done away” with all of them. His sacrifice on the cross eliminated the need for any animal sacrifices and offerings. The Temple, the Sanctuary were thrown down, never again to have any importance within His plan of salvation for mankind.

Still, there are millions who still look to a coming 3rd Temple, reinstate the animal sacrifices, etc., as if to say that His sacrifice on the cross was not enough, or did not take away our sin, etc.
All 6 were indeed completed and fulfilled. When Stephen looked up and saw Jesus standing to the right of God, he was telling us His sacrifice was indeed accepted, the heavenly Sanctuary was cleansed, and He could and would now be given the Kingdom… All things were now placed under His feet. It (His mission) was finished!

 

[Douggg]

No, the final week of Daniel 9:27 has already started at the Cross and is IN PROCESS until the Second Coming.

The 70th week is 7 years long.

 

[Keraz]

Completely disagree! You are looking at the world to determine if Jesus fulfilled His God given 6 elements to have been fulfilled.

As we do live in the world, what other way do you think we should interpret Daniel 9:24?
People with your views are divorced from reality and they go right off the rails of scriptural truths.

The 70th week is 7 years long.

Correct and there is no way the events Prophesied for that period were fulfilled in the first Century.