Populist Viewpoint vs Verified Facts

[JohnDB]

Gosh John.
Don't give me more credit than I deserve!
You're writing a book about the translation?
Or about Augustine?
I think Augustine messed up early Christianity really good.
Reformed beliefs are credited to him.

What you state about the translation is very nuanced and I won't be able to comment at all.
I trust what you learned and wrote.

I just know that Jerome did not do a really good job of translating...
And Augustine didn't know Hebrew or Greek....and depended on Jerome's translation.

I'd say that even to this day, Romans 5 is not easily understood.
Have to leave for a while - when I come back I have to look up the exact verse...it might be 12...
through one man death came and so all men died.....

Actually I'm writing a lesson plan on how to go about the process of hermeneutics. Three in total. One is the book, one is lesson plan, and one is student guide. One chapter is dedicated to relying upon what we have in modern translations as being accurate. How and why we have translational errors like carpenter/tekton/laborer. How the accuracy we have today is nothing short of many miracles. Scriptures are indeed a miracle. Something God has worked at over the centuries to ensure we have them.

There are other books available for this but they aren't really consumable for your average person or they have massive logic errors in order to promote particular theologies of one particular denomination.

I'm heading into some of the most difficult sections (I thought) and that's the ones about "cutting straight" or "Rightly dividing" and how to go about it.
I'm dreading it. It's going to be long and torturous. The red ink from the editor is going to hurt my feelings and we are going to argue extensively. (There already is lots of red ink everywhere to where a person might think I wrote it that color.) Hopefully we can get everything said in a consumable fashion (easily understood) while being sufficiently complete.

I think I'll use Ephesians 5 as a backdrop to explain the depths of understanding for the very beginning. And then it's off to the rabbit holes from there.

 

[JohnDB]

@JohnDB i decided to unignore you. I have a Thompson chain Bible.

View attachment 49567



I have an archaeological supplement…

Like your remarks on tyre,

View attachment 49563View attachment 49564 here is also information concerning Nazareth.

View attachment 49565

View attachment 49566

Since I’m not a political Christian nor believe that is something God desires… you’re right concerning the ability to make effort and do one’s own research…

But I doubt we are doomed… is this information accurate or trusting? I trust it to an extent…

Yes it's correct to a certain extent.
What it doesn't address is the size of Nazareth or the attitudes of its residents or of others about its inhabitants. And this resource likely will not discuss its relationship to Sepohiris (major city) .

Nazareth to this day is a "blink city". Not really even a crossroad town. Just a wide spot in the road you can get a drink of water from. People make it out to be this huge huge place because Jesus was from there. It absolutely is not.

Thompson Chain Reference Bibles and study guides are of a type created to promote particular theologies. You may or may not like those systems. Most do not even though once upon a time they were the most popular beliefs. And the reason is that more logic, anthropology, Topography, and exchanges of information has become available than ever before. Travel is way too easy. If I had the money I could be sitting in @GodsGrace kitchen in Tuscany this time tomorrow. As it is I'm just speaking with her now.
This was impossible when your encyclopedia was written.

That being said....some things were actually better in the 50's and 60's.

When it came to scholarship hermeneutics and understanding things concerning the Personhood of God in a non-denominational fashion. They got people today beaten to a bloody pulp. I've had the luxury of reading a few resources from that era. And it was a delight. A Zondervan Encyclopedia from that era is priceless. Trinity, Sovereignty of God, and even Satan...essays on the subject that are nothing short of brilliant.

However....looking at a Hailey's Bible handbook (also created then) they have a flat surface oasis when discussing EnGhedi. Sigh. Nothing could be more wrong. There is a ladder there today to get to where David was hiding.

 

[MatthewG]

.

That being said....some things were actually better in the 50's and 60's.

Just another day though. Anyway again, all I wanted to do was share… you know in the end I’m glad it comes down to faith…. While you can point out flaws, and help people try to understand. Some will just laugh in your face, or just say well your the one who is not right and then say your not a “believer.” Blah, blah. Like your issues with carpenter. As a word used. Etc… will you be writing your Bible or book to publish? Will it be called “why words are wrong or have you got a working title?” I do geninely hope you can get something you want to do done.


Like for me I’m someone who believed Jesus came back in that age, and got the bride, and it’s faithfully believed, and it’s not based on a certain “Jesus’s came back” - except for the promised which was to those people in that age. But most people are gonna just say that’s just not right… etc.

 

[JohnDB]

Just another day though. Anyway again, all I wanted to do was share… you know in the end I’m glad it comes down to faith…. While you can point out flaws, and help people try to understand. Some will just laugh in your face, or just say well your the one who is not right and then say your not a “believer.” Blah, blah. Like your issues with carpenter. As a word used. Etc… will you be writing your Bible or book to publish? Will it be called “why words are wrong or have you got a working title?” I do geninely hope you can get something you want to do done.


Like for me I’m someone who believed Jesus came back in that age, and got the bride, and it’s faithfully believed, and it’s not based on a certain “Jesus’s came back” - except for the promised which was to those people in that age. But most people are gonna just say that’s just not right… etc.

Actually the title is a work in progress.
The study trio is meant to be easily consumable. It is not supposed to dumb things down or talk down to people. But it explains how to vet resources by looking at publishers and researchers and authors. Researching those people briefly and determining what standing they have to speak on the subject they wrote about.
Even archeologists like to exegete scripture or decipher symbolisms....sometimes, where their thoughts and opinions are definitely solid on anthropology they are not experts in linguistics...but the two experts together are absolutely rock solid and are great at faith and information building if they can get along.

Since I began hard core studying and researching for answers I've had to change so many opinions and things I thought were true. My personal errors could fill a library all by itself. And I've spent most of my life in church attending small group services the whole time. I've found truths everywhere and in some unlikely places. I've found that sometimes those with a said theology that is horrible had absolutely the best attitudes and hearts towards evangelism that didn't reflect their stated theologies at all.
Case in point is the Calvinists. Their theologies tend to take a fairly prideful and somewhat exclusionary view of their salvation as if they were lottery winners. BUT when it comes time for being the workhorses of the Gospel they are the go to group to accomplish herculean feats. The Geneva Bible, which is the definitive common man's Bible of the Elizabethan era, was produced by Calvinists. Martin Luther was also a proponent of Calvinism. This group has done more to spread God's messages than any other despite their flaws.

Every person is a unique individual with a unique set of DNA coupled with a unique set of life experiences. As such God has a unique relationship with all of us. I have a relationship with my son which is starkly different than I do with my father or my brother or my brother-in-law or anyone else. But I'm me...the same guy in each of these relationships. God cannot be any different from that in this respect. He will have a unique relationship with each and every one of us. Who has the best relationship? Me in my opinion only. You in your opinion only. That's God making each and every one of us feel uniquely special to Him. But the absolute truth is likely something different...or maybe not. But God has assigned our path a long time ago. And maybe today someone needs to be a Calvinist or Presbyterian or Lutheran or Baptist to be a believer. Only God knows. I do not.

And for the record, I do not own any denominational or theological identity whatsoever. Yes I attend a denominational church but the leadership are all as bad as me for following its denominational guidelines. Why we have the label is still something I scratch my head over. But I like the people.

And as far as pointing out errors....I remember the years I spent repeating them and have repented. I wished I had someone point them out before I learned the truth the hard way. I mean no harm or insult as most people, like you and I have come to own them honestly while trying to learn more but someone through denominational bent or tradition has perpetuated them into us.

 

[MatthewG]

Im glad you said this

Who has the best relationship? Me in my opinion only. You in your opinion only. That's God making each and every one of us feel uniquely special to Him. But the absolute truth is likely something different...or maybe not. But God has assigned our path a long time ago. And maybe today someone needs to be a Calvinist or Presbyterian or Lutheran or Baptist to be a believer. Only God knows. I do not.


Lol...

God and me do not talk all that often. I don't visit him in the bible all that often, and he as my Father, whos name is Yahavah. Already knows this, and I admit this, and I rarely pray. My maintainment in the heart is hope a lot of the times, in suffering of times of stress, trauma, things that break apart or fall apart but are for the betterment of me in continuing to remain humble and not prideful in "faith," or like I am in so better relationship with God than the next person...

You should never speak of that, ... of me as an individual as though I think I have some better relationship than yourself - that was how my mind was when I first became a Christian - I am better than them, they don't read their bible, they don't pray like me... that was my attitude...

I don't believe your relationship with God may be greater or lesser than... I think nothing of it, there are different measures of faith, and that is just a given and an understanding to see that there are different people who walk very closely to their Father, and some not so, like myself...

I'm still saved believer in the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, as that is where faith in my Father is in newness of life and founded to produce only good spiritual food that my fleshly body could never produce...

Not sure why your comment struck me so much because I have no opinion on your relationship with God... you either have one or you do not.

 

[GodsGrace]

@JohnDB i decided to unignore you. I have a Thompson chain Bible.

View attachment 49567



I have an archaeological supplement…

Like your remarks on tyre,

View attachment 49563View attachment 49564 here is also information concerning Nazareth.

View attachment 49565

View attachment 49566

Since I’m not a political Christian nor believe that is something God desires… you’re right concerning the ability to make effort and do one’s own research…

But I doubt we are doomed… is this information accurate or trusting? I trust it to an extent…

You put @JohnDB on ignore!
He's a fountain of information.

The bible is a complicated book which MAN has put his hands to.
It's also been very political in the past, and even today, some versions lean heavily toward the
denomination that translated/printed it. John MacArthur's version, commented on by him.
Might be some tendency toward reformed theology there?

And this was true for the actual WORDING of the bible in the past.
So, yes, I'd tend to listen to JohnDB and learn that our faith is in JESUS
and to some extent the bible.

Lest we wake up one day to an error and find our faith disintergrated.

 

[GodsGrace]

Actually I'm writing a lesson plan on how to go about the process of hermeneutics. Three in total. One is the book, one is lesson plan, and one is student guide. One chapter is dedicated to relying upon what we have in modern translations as being accurate. How and why we have translational errors like carpenter/tekton/laborer. How the accuracy we have today is nothing short of many miracles. Scriptures are indeed a miracle. Something God has worked at over the centuries to ensure we have them.

There are other books available for this but they aren't really consumable for your average person or they have massive logic errors in order to promote particular theologies of one particular denomination.

I'm heading into some of the most difficult sections (I thought) and that's the ones about "cutting straight" or "Rightly dividing" and how to go about it.
I'm dreading it. It's going to be long and torturous. The red ink from the editor is going to hurt my feelings and we are going to argue extensively. (There already is lots of red ink everywhere to where a person might think I wrote it that color.) Hopefully we can get everything said in a consumable fashion (easily understood) while being sufficiently complete.

I think I'll use Ephesians 5 as a backdrop to explain the depths of understanding for the very beginning. And then it's off to the rabbit holes from there.

Let us know when it's done.
Sounds like it'll be very readable for the common folk.
I think a lot of us don't understand well about language, culture.
Not that I do...,.,but knowing a little bit helps along.

 

[GodsGrace]

Actually the title is a work in progress.
The study trio is meant to be easily consumable. It is not supposed to dumb things down or talk down to people. But it explains how to vet resources by looking at publishers and researchers and authors. Researching those people briefly and determining what standing they have to speak on the subject they wrote about.
Even archeologists like to exegete scripture or decipher symbolisms....sometimes, where their thoughts and opinions are definitely solid on anthropology they are not experts in linguistics...but the two experts together are absolutely rock solid and are great at faith and information building if they can get along.

Since I began hard core studying and researching for answers I've had to change so many opinions and things I thought were true. My personal errors could fill a library all by itself. And I've spent most of my life in church attending small group services the whole time. I've found truths everywhere and in some unlikely places. I've found that sometimes those with a said theology that is horrible had absolutely the best attitudes and hearts towards evangelism that didn't reflect their stated theologies at all.
Case in point is the Calvinists. Their theologies tend to take a fairly prideful and somewhat exclusionary view of their salvation as if they were lottery winners. BUT when it comes time for being the workhorses of the Gospel they are the go to group to accomplish herculean feats. The Geneva Bible, which is the definitive common man's Bible of the Elizabethan era, was produced by Calvinists. Martin Luther was also a proponent of Calvinism. This group has done more to spread God's messages than any other despite their flaws.

Every person is a unique individual with a unique set of DNA coupled with a unique set of life experiences. As such God has a unique relationship with all of us. I have a relationship with my son which is starkly different than I do with my father or my brother or my brother-in-law or anyone else. But I'm me...the same guy in each of these relationships. God cannot be any different from that in this respect. He will have a unique relationship with each and every one of us. Who has the best relationship? Me in my opinion only. You in your opinion only. That's God making each and every one of us feel uniquely special to Him. But the absolute truth is likely something different...or maybe not. But God has assigned our path a long time ago. And maybe today someone needs to be a Calvinist or Presbyterian or Lutheran or Baptist to be a believer. Only God knows. I do not.

And for the record, I do not own any denominational or theological identity whatsoever. Yes I attend a denominational church but the leadership are all as bad as me for following its denominational guidelines. Why we have the label is still something I scratch my head over. But I like the people.

And as far as pointing out errors....I remember the years I spent repeating them and have repented. I wished I had someone point them out before I learned the truth the hard way. I mean no harm or insult as most people, like you and I have come to own them honestly while trying to learn more but someone through denominational bent or tradition has perpetuated them into us.

Hi John,
Too busy yesterday but I'm reading through this interesting topic (I don't usually do this).
I have to agree with what you've said....
Too many put God into a little neatly wrapped box and I believe God is just too big for this.

I tend to appreciate more the walk a person has with God than what they believe personally.
We could talk all day long, but it's what we DO that counts.
I like what you said about Calvinists --- all true.
Although I don't agree with reformed soteriology, most of them are truly living a life devoted to God.
The proudful attitude is worrisome and how some damn all others as not being saved....
but not all are like this.
OSAS also worries me but on both accounts only because it could damage the faith of some and steer new Christians in the wrong direction.

Other than that, we'll each have to find a way to be close to God because this is absolutely necessary.
Jesus said we must abide IN HIM,,,and this is the one truth from which we cannot escape.

You're a good writer - this will bode well for your book!
(of course).

 

[GodsGrace]

Im glad you said this

Who has the best relationship? Me in my opinion only. You in your opinion only. That's God making each and every one of us feel uniquely special to Him. But the absolute truth is likely something different...or maybe not. But God has assigned our path a long time ago. And maybe today someone needs to be a Calvinist or Presbyterian or Lutheran or Baptist to be a believer. Only God knows. I do not.


Lol...

God and me do not talk all that often. I don't visit him in the bible all that often, and he as my Father, whos name is Yahavah. Already knows this, and I admit this, and I rarely pray. My maintainment in the heart is hope a lot of the times, in suffering of times of stress, trauma, things that break apart or fall apart but are for the betterment of me in continuing to remain humble and not prideful in "faith," or like I am in so better relationship with God than the next person...

You should never speak of that, ... of me as an individual as though I think I have some better relationship than yourself - that was how my mind was when I first became a Christian - I am better than them, they don't read their bible, they don't pray like me... that was my attitude...

I don't believe your relationship with God may be greater or lesser than... I think nothing of it, there are different measures of faith, and that is just a given and an understanding to see that there are different people who walk very closely to their Father, and some not so, like myself...

I'm still saved believer in the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, as that is where faith in my Father is in newness of life and founded to produce only good spiritual food that my fleshly body could never produce...

Not sure why your comment struck me so much because I have no opinion on your relationship with God... you either have one or you do not.

MatthewG, I've had interaction with you before and you must know that I feel that there are some objective truths in the bible.
If we don't accept this, then everyone could just make up their own religion and live by it.
But if we call ourselves Christian, then there are some beliefs that are presented to us by Jesus that, I believe, must be adhered to.

Having said that....I do believe you're correct in that we each must find our way and attempt to become progressively better.
Isn't the aim to have a better heart?

And in comparing myself to others I find that I'm sorely lacking.
I see what the Apostles lived and what saints after them lived and I'm afraid I'm at the bottom of the ladder.

However, I believe God has a goal for each one of us and at some point He'll make that goal be known and we'll follow that goal to the best of our ability.

I encourage you and remember that it's our heart that God wants.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes it's correct to a certain extent.
What it doesn't address is the size of Nazareth or the attitudes of its residents or of others about its inhabitants. And this resource likely will not discuss its relationship to Sepohiris (major city) .

Nazareth to this day is a "blink city". Not really even a crossroad town. Just a wide spot in the road you can get a drink of water from. People make it out to be this huge huge place because Jesus was from there. It absolutely is not.

Nazareth was very close to a cross-roads town....
some believe Jesus spoke some Greek.
(not from the link, but from what I remember about Sephoris).

I just found this...it's interesting.
I've forgotten a lot...

Was Jesus of Nazareth also Jesus of Sepphoris?

Though you might never have heard of the place, the ancient Israelite town of Sepphoris has been the focus of intense speculation lately. The reason: Some say the town changes how we view Jesus of Nazareth.

www.brainerddispatch.com

Thompson Chain Reference Bibles and study guides are of a type created to promote particular theologies. You may or may not like those systems. Most do not even though once upon a time they were the most popular beliefs. And the reason is that more logic, anthropology, Topography, and exchanges of information has become available than ever before. Travel is way too easy. If I had the money I could be sitting in @GodsGrace kitchen in Tuscany this time tomorrow. As it is I'm just speaking with her now.
This was impossible when your encyclopedia was written.

LOL
You and your brew are welcomed any time!

That being said....some things were actually better in the 50's and 60's.

When it came to scholarship hermeneutics and understanding things concerning the Personhood of God in a non-denominational fashion. They got people today beaten to a bloody pulp. I've had the luxury of reading a few resources from that era. And it was a delight. A Zondervan Encyclopedia from that era is priceless. Trinity, Sovereignty of God, and even Satan...essays on the subject that are nothing short of brilliant.

However....looking at a Hailey's Bible handbook (also created then) they have a flat surface oasis when discussing EnGhedi. Sigh. Nothing could be more wrong. There is a ladder there today to get to where David was hiding.

I much more respect today's bibles.
The older ones were a mess.

 

[JohnDB]

Nazareth was very close to a cross-roads town....
some believe Jesus spoke some Greek.
(not from the link, but from what I remember about Sephoris).

I just found this...it's interesting.
I've forgotten a lot...

Was Jesus of Nazareth also Jesus of Sepphoris?

Though you might never have heard of the place, the ancient Israelite town of Sepphoris has been the focus of intense speculation lately. The reason: Some say the town changes how we view Jesus of Nazareth.

www.brainerddispatch.com

LOL
You and your brew are welcomed any time!


I much more respect today's bibles.
The older ones were a mess.

Yeah....most people know Nazareth but Sepphoris is virtually unknown in the pews of churches worldwide. The distance is not 4 miles...more like 3 kilometers. There was a road directly from Nazareth to Sepphoris and it's believed by most that this city (always having construction projects) was where Joseph and family worked. They lived separately from the Romans in Nazareth because they were Jewish and devoutly so. Among the Jews themselves they believed that Nazareth people were too prideful because they believed the Messiah would come from there due to an unrecorded prophesy as well as the recorded one about being a "nazarene" which people believed was about the Nazarite vows. Which is why the question was asked "Can anything good come from Nazareth? "

If and when the fighting stops in Israel I might stop by on the way home after leading a tour group. Meaning it's gonna be a bit before we can make this happen.
The riots in Europe need to stop first and things become peaceful again.
Travel is then easier.

My hope is to teach people the old High School research paper method of how to go about doing a research paper. How to look, where to look, and why to look and even some application skills. A daunting task...it's taken months so far. Maybe if we continue the hard pace we have been we will have something to hand out for pre-release reading for the 4th round edits by January. Then comes the first press and teaching....then one more rounds of edits.

 

[MatthewG]

MatthewG, I've had interaction with you before and you must know that I feel that there are some objective truths in the bible.

Yes hello again. Thank you for explaining how you feeling. There are objective truths in the bible. Then their are the subjective decisions in which one applies what they read to their life or not to some degree, and their is living by the holy spirit and personal sanctification which one allows the holy spirit to help produce spiritual fruits which can not be made from our fleshly body. Putting those old ways of the flesh to death, and putting on Christ, and newness of life.

If we don't accept this, then everyone could just make up their own religion and live by it.

If Faith doesn't please Yahavah, and we must obey man, we are in trouble.

But if we call ourselves Christian, then there are some beliefs that are presented to us by Jesus that, I believe, must be adhered to.

Sure, like not desiring to have sex with ones neighbor, who has a wife one may desire. Not lusting after other things that hinder the relationship with Yahavah. Etc... Not having a heart of stone, but a heart of flesh, the ability to love by the spirit, and worship Yahavah in spirit and in truth, asking for help by the holy spirit which is given to all individuals who are believers in the resurrection of the Gospel which leads to Salvation, and is the power of God, unto that salvation.

Having said that....I do believe you're correct in that we each must find our way and attempt to become progressively better.

Maturity, as a flower grows to mature. Its flower springs out during the day but closes at night. It knows when to eat, and knows when to sleep. Growing up and maturing is no different, maturing by walking in the spirit, having faith in your Father whom adopted you as his child.

Isn't the aim to have a better heart?

And in comparing myself to others I find that I'm sorely lacking.

Naturally, all human beings are judgemental.

I see what the Apostles lived and what saints after them lived and I'm afraid I'm at the bottom of the ladder.

You're a Child of God. Paul was the least of the apostles, and it's understandable how you feel.

However, I believe God has a goal for each one of us and at some point He'll make that goal be known and we'll follow that goal to the best of our ability.

I encourage you and remember that it's our heart that God wants.

My hope is that would be so, GG.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yeah....most people know Nazareth but Sepphoris is virtually unknown in the pews of churches worldwide. The distance is not 4 miles...more like 3 kilometers. There was a road directly from Nazareth to Sepphoris and it's believed by most that this city (always having construction projects) was where Joseph and family worked. They lived separately from the Romans in Nazareth because they were Jewish and devoutly so. Among the Jews themselves they believed that Nazareth people were too prideful because they believed the Messiah would come from there due to an unrecorded prophesy as well as the recorded one about being a "nazarene" which people believed was about the Nazarite vows. Which is why the question was asked "Can anything good come from Nazareth? "

If and when the fighting stops in Israel I might stop by on the way home after leading a tour group. Meaning it's gonna be a bit before we can make this happen.
The riots in Europe need to stop first and things become peaceful again.
Travel is then easier.

My hope is to teach people the old High School research paper method of how to go about doing a research paper. How to look, where to look, and why to look and even some application skills. A daunting task...it's taken months so far. Maybe if we continue the hard pace we have been we will have something to hand out for pre-release reading for the 4th round edits by January. Then comes the first press and teaching....then one more rounds of edits.

The riots in Europe are not affecting anything.
Mainly they're in Paris and very sporadic and nothing I'd worry about.
I'm beginning to wonder if we'll ever have peace again in these regions (Israel).
Have they ever had peace??
I've never been there - put if off too much.

 

[JohnDB]

The riots in Europe are not affecting anything.
Mainly they're in Paris and very sporadic and nothing I'd worry about.
I'm beginning to wonder if we'll ever have peace again in these regions (Israel).
Have they ever had peace??
I've never been there - put if off too much.

Israel has had peace....it currently doesn't.
It's an annoying place to visit for a variety of reasons but crime is not one of them. It's citizens are extremely annoying....but if you can overlook them and their money grubbing ways...then it's a nice vacation albeit more expensive than most.

Washing your eyes in the pool of siloam,
Hanging out on the shore of Tiberias at sunrise.
Taking a dip in the Jordan where Jesus was baptized and Israelites crossed into Israel with Joshua.
Experiencing the solitude of Judean wilderness.
Going into Elijah's cave and seeing the black basalt which turned into marble from the fire that fell from the sky.
Climbing from gehenna to Hezekiah's Tunnel entrance.
Walking Old City Jerusalem and understanding what humiliation is by being condemned to death and accused of crimes.
Lots of things to see.

 

[GodsGrace]

Israel has had peace....it currently doesn't.
It's an annoying place to visit for a variety of reasons but crime is not one of them. It's citizens are extremely annoying....but if you can overlook them and their money grubbing ways...then it's a nice vacation albeit more expensive than most.

Washing your eyes in the pool of siloam,
Hanging out on the shore of Tiberias at sunrise.
Taking a dip in the Jordan where Jesus was baptized and Israelites crossed into Israel with Joshua.
Experiencing the solitude of Judean wilderness.
Going into Elijah's cave and seeing the black basalt which turned into marble from the fire that fell from the sky.
Climbing from gehenna to Hezekiah's Tunnel entrance.
Walking Old City Jerusalem and understanding what humiliation is by being condemned to death and accused of crimes.
Lots of things to see.

My brother and I had planned a month long trip to Israel for this very year.
A bit too late I'd say.
My husband and I didn't get to see every single place we would have like to visit, but number one on the list
was Israel, which we never got to.
God willing...in the future
or else in the great hereafter.

Yes. So many INCREDIBLE places to visit.

I do feel like it's never experienced REAL peace...

 

[Wrangler]

which set of fact is more important?

What you referenced in the OP may be called Conventional Wisdom (CW), what you are calling Populist Viewpoint. Ideas that are commonly accepted but may not be rooted in truth. The examples you cite seem rather pedantic but may come out as the discussion unfolds.

Diving into this philosophically, one must consider epistemology, the study of the limits of knowledge. Many consider it a rather dreary and tedious branch, from which logic resides. We have primary and secondary concepts to parse through. Your question is a secondary concept. One must ask 'more important' TO WHOM and FOR WHAT (purpose)?

 

[JohnDB]

My brother and I had planned a month long trip to Israel for this very year.
A bit too late I'd say.
My husband and I didn't get to see every single place we would have like to visit, but number one on the list
was Israel, which we never got to.
God willing...in the future
or else in the great hereafter.

Yes. So many INCREDIBLE places to visit.

I do feel like it's never experienced REAL peace...

Yeah....well they have those Palestinians entrenched there. Every other Arab nation has tossed them out and they (along with Iran) have been responsible for all the unrest in that part of the world.
And that trouble has spread to the Houthis in Yemen currently as well as other places.

It's to the point that it's getting more difficult to argue against their genocide if someone wanted to commit such an atrocity. Especially if someone wanted to be really sadistic and ship them all to Iran.

Just saying.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yeah....well they have those Palestinians entrenched there. Every other Arab nation has tossed them out and they (along with Iran) have been responsible for all the unrest in that part of the world.
And that trouble has spread to the Houthis in Yemen currently as well as other places.

It's to the point that it's getting more difficult to argue against their genocide if someone wanted to commit such an atrocity. Especially if someone wanted to be really sadistic and ship them all to Iran.

Just saying.

Even Egypt won't have them enter.

But....

 

[GodsGrace]

What you referenced in the OP may be called Conventional Wisdom (CW), what you are calling Populist Viewpoint. Ideas that are commonly accepted but may not be rooted in truth. The examples you cite seem rather pedantic but may come out as the discussion unfolds.

Diving into this philosophically, one must consider epistemology, the study of the limits of knowledge. Many consider it a rather dreary and tedious branch, from which logic resides. We have primary and secondary concepts to parse through. Your question is a secondary concept. One must ask 'more important' TO WHOM and FOR WHAT (purpose)?

Wrangler...

You sound like a philosopher type...

why not give some examples while you're there typing out the stuff?

 

[Wrangler]

Wrangler...

You sound like a philosopher type...

why not give some examples while you're there typing out the stuff?

I am a philosopher. I'll give 2 examples: guns and beauty.

Guns are important.

To Whom? Free citizens. Unarmed people are subjects.​

For What? The final defense against tyranny.​

Beauty. Poets claimed beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Science found this is untrue. Across all species, there was greater attraction based on a single criteria: symmetry. The greater the symmetry, the healthier the genes.

To Whom? Those looking to mate.​

For What? Produce healthy offspring.​

​

Regarding the OP, I'm still not sure of the thesis beyond being pedantic. Hence, my questions.