The absurdity of Pretrib logic

[Taken]

You do realize that no saint can be in a glorified immortal body until the last trumpet sounds first, right?

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.


This presents a major problem for Pretribbers who think they are bodily snatched up to heaven before great tribulation begins. This would mean Pretribbers are being transported to heaven while still in mortal bodies, thus when they get to heaven they are dwelling there still in mortal bodies since they couldn't possibly already be in possession of immortal bodies if that can't even happen until the last trump sounds first.

Are Pretribbers going to move the goalpost here? That 1 Corinthians 15:51-57 is not meaning after great tribulation after all but is meaning prior to great tribulation?

You then think it is reasonable that the church is transported to heaven while still in a mortal body state, and that they then dwell in heaven in a mortal body state until great tribulation is past? It's one thing to have souls dwelling in heaven without bodies. But whoever heard of anyone dwelling in heaven in a literal mortal body, meaning in the exact same body they had when they were allegedly snatched up to heaven prior to great tribulation?

1 Cor 15:51 is not my problem. It does not APPLY to me.

All Scripture is TRUE…however ALL Scripture does NOT APPLY to ALL individuals.
If a scripture is speaking OF the UNSAVED…it does NOT APPLY to the SAVED.

You can be among those to whom 1 Cor 15:51 does apply ….

However it is 1 Cor 15:
[23] But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

The Lord SHALL descend from Heaven to the Clouds and SOUND A TRUMP calling UP TO HIM…they that are Christ’s.

1 Cor 15:51 is the LAST TRUMP raising ALL who died believing in God, in Jesus…(called the FIRST Resurrection) but who knew not the Christ, nor surrendered unto the Christ….and at THAT time are receiving their Salvation.

Those IN Christ have ALREADY received their SALVATION…and are RAISE in the Order of the next AFTER Christ.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[MA2444]

What is it? Please repeat.

Normally when I ask: there is nothing forthcoming.

It's a page or three back by now. I'm sure you can find it as easy as I can.

 

[MA2444]

Lying is still your banner huh?

Correct.

Ok ok it's a copy past photoshop thing lol. But you have your answer, Lol

 

[Taken]

Jesus said he will come after the tribulation....,

Matt 24
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not provide its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And at that time the sign of the Son of Man [coming in His glory] will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth [and especially Israel] will mourn [regretting their rebellion and rejection of the Messiah], and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory [in brilliance and splendor].

Paul in Thessalonians teaches according to the Lords own word.

1Thess 4
15 For we say this to you by the Lord’s [own] word, that we who are still alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will in no way precede [into His presence] those [believers] who have fallen asleep [in death]. 16 For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel and with the [blast of the] trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain [on the earth] will simultaneously be caught up (raptured) together with them [the resurrected ones] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord!


Paul wrote a second letter to dispel pretended spiritual insight from people like yourself.


2Thess 2
2 Now in regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to meet Him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to be quickly unsettled or alarmed either by a [so-called prophetic revelation of a] spirit or a message or a letter [alleged to be] from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has [already] come.

2Thess 1
4 Therefore, we speak of you with pride among the churches of God for your steadfastness [your unflinching endurance, and patience] and your firm faith in the midst of all the persecution and [crushing] distress which you endure.

5 This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering. 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him]. 9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day [that is, glorified through the changed lives of those who have accepted Him as Savior and have been set apart for His purpose], and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed and trusted [and confirmed in your lives].


That passage is also according to the Lords own word given here...,

Matt 25
31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and majesty and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him [for judgment]; and He will separate them from one another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right [the place of honor], and the goats on His left [the place of rejection].

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father [you favored of God, appointed to eternal salvation], inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

41 “Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Leave Me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels (demons)

The Son of Man was SENT to Earth…HUMBLED.
The Son of God with POWER left the Earth, last seen IN the Clouds.
The Lord shall descend to the Clouds and call up to meet Him those IN Christ.
The Lamb shall go to meet the SEALED 144,000 tribesmen servants ISRAEL told to meet on Mt ZION.
The Son of Man WITH POWER BECOMES visible to the whole world when appears sitting on a white Cloud.
He shall watch His angel servant DIVIDE and SEPARATE those with and without God.
When the Christ is REVEALED…is when He steps forth to Claim His Kingdom on Earth…and WITH HIM…IS His Church and His hoy servant Angels….and outside of His Kingdom are a remnant of mortal believing men who survived death during the Tribulation….building towns, cities, nations, governments according to Gods word.

AND NOT YET has those OUTSIDE of Christ’s Kingdom ALL come Against Christ….nor the First Resurrection or the Second Resurrection taken place.

You skip a lot of what must come to pass.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[WPM]

Ask them to post a single postrib rapture verse

Just one.
Get ready for a good laugh.

Read (and address) the Op and stop lying. You have avoided it for long enough.

 

[WPM]

It's a page or three back by now. I'm sure you can find it as easy as I can.

No. I am not looking for it. If you are telling the truth you will resubmit.

 

[WPM]

Thanks for your convoluted commentary…
One people NO DIVISION, ethnic or otherwise.
All people, ethnic or otherwise fused 2,000 years ago.

From the beginning…God CLEARLY ESTABLISHED DIVISION, regarding MULTIPLE things….
Light / Dark
Up / Down
With / Without
Good / Evil
IN / OUT
PEOPLE;
Hebrews, Tribes, Israel / Greeks, Gentiles

In the Garden Adam Was being TAUGHT from God…ONLY Good.
Adam Had at his Offering a TREE to eat from, CALL the TREE OF LIFE…He failed to take and eat from the Tree of Life before he was SENT out of the Garden.

^^^^ THOSE DIVISIONS were EXACTLY what Adam LEARNED WHEN He ate from the TREE OF GOOD AND EVIL…

2,000 + years ago, God purposed IN Himself, His Word, to be Sent to Earth, In the Likeness AS a specific Tribesman of ethnic ISRAEL Jewish man, TO SEEK OUT, preach and teach SPECIFICALLY the Tribesmen OF ethnic ISRAEL (that were Choosing and Following Gentile ways).

1 Sam. 9:
[16] To morrow about this time I will send thee a man out of the land of Benjamin, and thou shalt anoint him to be captain over my people Israel, that he may save my people out of the hand of the Philistines: for I have looked upon my people, because their cry is come unto me.

Eph 1:
[9] Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Isa 55:
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Luke 1:
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Heb 1:
[5] For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son

John 1:
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Matt 15:
[24] But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

When you ignore HISTORY, when you fail to follow HISTORY bit by bit, step by step, you lose track of the TRUTH!

ISRAEL (the Tribesmen) Are a specific Ethnic group….and are STILL DIVIDED…
Amongst themselves AND FROM Gentiles.

Gentiles (Greeks and all others NOT ISRAEL) Are specific Ethnic groups….are STILL DIVIDED…
Amongst themselves AND FROM Israel.

Gods OFFERING 2,000+ Years ago IS Gods PLAN of reconciliation ACCORDING TO GODS, manner, bit by bit, step by step…Order and Way…

Gods END of DAYS (as we now now them)…being the DIVISIONS among men….
* SHALL BE DIVISIONS ONCE and FOREVER according to Gods Order and Way…
Before, During, After…Gods Tribulations and Wrath He SHALL SEND DOWN FROM HEAVEN UPON the WHOLE of mans WORLD, EARTH.

1 John 5:
[19] And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

You should have LEARNED…
Once before THESE DAYS..the whole world was in wickedness….AND Gods ANGER waxed greatly…THAT ONLY 8 did God find that were Faithful to God….AND God DESTROYED the Earth and ALL that were UNFAITHFUL…

And the 8 Gods SAVED…were Lifted UP above the Earth while God was DESTROYING the Earth…
And the SAME shall AGAIN OCCUR.

It matters NOT to me, IF YOU ARE or ARE NOT among those WHOM have been Taught, told, know, act, do….to ESCAPE the DEVASTATION, that SHALL COME UPON the earth.

Luke 21:
[36] Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

If you have NOT LEARNED and CHOSEN to be accounted WORTHY to escape Gods Tribulations and Wrath sent upon the whole of the earth… you deal with it, you enjoy it, you be content with your choices.

Me? I made my election, my choice a long time ago to be ACCOUNTED WORTHY according to Gods Order and Way and Offering, He MADE 2,000+ years ago, By, Through, Of His WORD Jesus, His LIFE Jesus, His WAY Jesus, His WISDOM Christ, His POWER Christ, His SEED Christ…WHO presently DWELL IN me and I IN Him….

AND WHERE HE IS ….(DURING Gods Tribulations and Wrath Send down from Heaven to Earth…). I AM now IN SPIRIT and SHALL BE FACE TO FACE WITH HIM, WHERE HE IS…
(Ding, ding, ding….Where He shall be is NOT IN Heaven, NOT ON Earth…BUT IN the Clouds / Air above the Earth…(the SAME LAST PLACE Jesus was WITNESSED being SEEN as He was ascending INTO HEAVEN WITH ALL WHO…are ACCOUNTED WORTHY to ESCAPE Gods Tribulations and Wrath.)

It’s SAD for you…you are Ignorant of Gods Order and Way….purposing Your way instead…




Glory to God,
Taken

Use your own words. Try and be original.

Your posts are becoming more and more convoluted, evasive and rambling by the day. I truly hope you know what you're talking about, because it is as clear as mud. You totally ignored my whole post.

 

[The Light]

Have you ever investigated ANYTHING?
YOU simply troll in here and lie your head off.
Then accuse everyone challenging your error of "no verses"
A telephone pole is more coherent than your trolling nonsense.

I challenged all of you a year ago to provide a single postrib rapture verse

None of you stepped up.
Your deal is a wasteland of one liners.
Trump
Last trump
7th trump
Last day
Day of the Lord
Darby
LA Haye
Scofield.

.....and on and on...pure nonsense.

You left out:

Cries of avoidance, meaning avoiding his posts..........when he has been answered.
Cries of providing no scripture..................when scripture has been provided.
Cries for scriptural exegesis..................when none is needed as the posted verses speak for themselves.

Just a lot crying.

 

[Davidpt]

So Pretribbers want a post trib verse? The following is what initially helped change my mind about the timing of the rapture. For decades my position was that the rapture was Pretrib. That changed when I began reading the following more carefully and then dissecting it, so to speak.

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Verse 1 obviously pertains to the rapture. And that the day of Christ in verse 2 is involving this same coming of the Lord Jesus Christ in verse 1. That much is clear thus far.

Then when we get to verse 3 Paul makes a very important point first, where, IMO, Pretribbers pretty much disregard--Let no man deceive you by any means


It begs the question, in what way might someone deceive someone? Let's read on in verse 3.

for that day shall not come. What day shall not come? Obviously, at this point in the text, the answer to that has to be found in either verse 1 or verse 2, or both verses combined. My position is the latter. Which then means this part---for that day shall not come--can basically be understood like such.

the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, thus the rapture, which also pertains to the day of Christ, shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

I don't know what 'first' might mean to Pretribbers, but I know what it means to me. It means the rapture cannot come until there has first been a falling away, which then reveals that man of sin, the son of perdition. IOW, those that fall away are meaning the son of perdition the same way Judas fell away and was meaning the son of perdition.

If you disagree, simply compare the following.

2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming

Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth--compare with---And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth

The bad thing about it, even some of those that oppose Pretrib, some of them can't even see that the son of perdition is meaning those in the church that fall away. They are false teachers instead and teach that NOSAS is not Biblical, that once one is saved they remain saved forever, regardless. That is a lie from the pit of hell that NOSAS is not Biblical, and one day these false teachers will have to answer for all these lies they spread at the time.

 

[WPM]

You left out:

Cries of avoidance, meaning avoiding his posts..........when he has been answered.
Cries of providing no scripture..................when scripture has been provided.
Cries for scriptural exegesis..................when none is needed as the posted verses speak for themselves.

Just a lot crying.

You guys have long lost the battle. This is all you have now to bring to the table. Not one of you has a single proof-text that you're willing to quote and dissect. That is because it does not exist.

 

[WPM]

Have you ever investigated ANYTHING?
YOU simply troll in here and lie your head off.
Then accuse everyone challenging your error of "no verses"
A telephone pole is more coherent than your trolling nonsense.

I challenged all of you a year ago to provide a single postrib rapture verse

None of you stepped up.
Your deal is a wasteland of one liners.
Trump
Last trump
7th trump
Last day
Day of the Lord
Darby
LA Haye
Scofield.

.....and on and on...pure nonsense.

I cannot get you or any other Pretribber to actually address a single post or text. That is because multiple Scriptures forbid your error. For you to do that would force you to admit you have been misled.

 

[WPM]

1 Cor 15:51 is not my problem. It does not APPLY to me.

All Scripture is TRUE…however ALL Scripture does NOT APPLY to ALL individuals.
If a scripture is speaking OF the UNSAVED…it does NOT APPLY to the SAVED.

You can be among those to whom 1 Cor 15:51 does apply ….

However it is 1 Cor 15:
[23] But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

The Lord SHALL descend from Heaven to the Clouds and SOUND A TRUMP calling UP TO HIM…they that are Christ’s.

1 Cor 15:51 is the LAST TRUMP raising ALL who died believing in God, in Jesus…(called the FIRST Resurrection) but who knew not the Christ, nor surrendered unto the Christ….and at THAT time are receiving their Salvation.

Those IN Christ have ALREADY received their SALVATION…and are RAISE in the Order of the next AFTER Christ.

Glory to God,
Taken

Then cometh the end! There you have it. The second coming ushers in the end.

 

[Taken]

Use your own words. Try and be original.

Your posts are becoming more and more convoluted, evasive and rambling by the day. I truly hope you know what you're talking about, because it is as clear as mud. You totally ignored my whole post.

Use your own words. Try and be original.

Your posts are becoming more and more convoluted, evasive and rambling by the day. I truly hope you know what you're talking about, because it is as clear as mud. You totally ignored my whole post.

The Rapture POV of a pretriber has EXHAUSTIVELY been provided in NUMEROUS threads on that TOPIC, with Umpteen supportive Scriptural verifications.

So…the thread swings back and forth ANTI-pretribbers Demanding the SAME already provided information over and over…Along with snarky comments and accusations in the mix….and whining when your demands are ignored…BOO HOO!

WHY so hell bent on complaining about what others believe?
WHY not grow a backbone and actually STAND FOR YOUR BELIEF and PROVE EVERY man “IN” Christ…
IS ON the face of the EARTH during the END of Days TRIBULATION AND WRATH sent down from Heaven…
THEIR PURPOSE to BE ON EARTH…
WHAT THEY ARE DOING…
WHY God IS CAUSING His Faithful, He Made WHOLE, He Made a NEW CREATURE….TO THEN SUFFER “HIS” Tribulations and wrath…

DO TELL…
(Hint Hint…is SHOULD be quite similar to the SAME “Tribulations and Wrath” God SENT UPON the SAME (EIGHT) faithful of Noah and his family….during Gods First tribulations and wrath HE sent down to Earth!)

Maybe you could INCLUDE that in your commentary….HOW faithful Noah and his family SUFFERED Gods tribulations and wrath during the First Trib.

NO one here can GIVE YOU WHAT YOU REALLY WANT….which is quite similar to what Atheists WANT…

NOT the TRUTH…rather UNDERSTANDING of WHY people believe WHAT they do.

ONLY God Gives UNDERSTANDING…if an atheist doesn’t have it….if you don’t have it…
IT IS NOT the person WITH UNDERSTANDING obligation to GIVE YOU UNDERSTANDING….and WHY repeating the truth over and over and over in these express topic threats….is a waste of time…

BUT go ahead…state your OWN STANDING .. OF such questions … and scriptural verification..

STAND FOR YOUR BELIEF and PROVE EVERY man “IN” Christ…
IS ON the face of the EARTH during the END of Days TRIBULATION AND WRATH sent down from Heaven…
THEIR PURPOSE to BE ON EARTH…
WHAT THEY ARE DOING…
WHY God IS CAUSING His Faithful, He Made WHOLE, He Made a NEW CREATURE….TO THEN SUFFER “HIS” Tribulations and wrath…

And share…Noah’s SUFFERING Gods Tribulation and Wrath during the First Trib….Where WAS He and what Wrath of God was he suffering?

 

[WPM]

The Rapture POV of a pretriber has EXHAUSTIVELY been provided in NUMEROUS threads on that TOPIC, with Umpteen supportive Scriptural verifications.

So…the thread swings back and forth ANTI-pretribbers Demanding the SAME already provided information over and over…Along with snarky comments and accusations in the mix….and whining when your demands are ignored…BOO HOO!

WHY so hell bent on complaining about what others believe?
WHY not grow a backbone and actually STAND FOR YOUR BELIEF and PROVE EVERY man “IN” Christ…
IS ON the face of the EARTH during the END of Days TRIBULATION AND WRATH sent down from Heaven…
THEIR PURPOSE to BE ON EARTH…
WHAT THEY ARE DOING…
WHY God IS CAUSING His Faithful, He Made WHOLE, He Made a NEW CREATURE….TO THEN SUFFER “HIS” Tribulations and wrath…

DO TELL…
(Hint Hint…is SHOULD be quite similar to the SAME “Tribulations and Wrath” God SENT UPON the SAME (EIGHT) faithful of Noah and his family….during Gods First tribulations and wrath HE sent down to Earth!)

Maybe you could INCLUDE that in your commentary….HOW faithful Noah and his family SUFFERED Gods tribulations and wrath during the First Trib.

NO one here can GIVE YOU WHAT YOU REALLY WANT….which is quite similar to what Atheists WANT…

NOT the TRUTH…rather UNDERSTANDING of WHY people believe with they do.

ONLY God Gives UNDERSTANDING…if an atheist doesn’t have it….if you don’t have it…
IT IS NOT the person WITH UNDERSTANDING obligation to GIVE YOU UNDERSTANDING….and WHY repeating the truth over and over and over in these express topic threats….is a waste of time…

BUT go ahead…state your OWN STANDING .. OF such questions … and scriptural verification..

STAND FOR YOUR BELIEF and PROVE EVERY man “IN” Christ…
IS ON the face of the EARTH during the END of Day TRIBULATION AND WRATH sent down from Heaven…
THEIR PURPOSE to BE ON EARTH…
WHAT THEY ARE DOING…
WHY God IS CAUSING His Faithful, He Made WHOLE, He Made a NEW CREATURE….TO THEN SUFFER “HIS” Tribulations and wrath…

And share…Noah’s SUFFERING Gods Tribulation and Wrath during the First Trib….Where WAS He and what Wrath of God was he suffering?

More noise, zero Scripture and more avoidance. This sums up your posts on this thread.

It is time to address the Op. You have been avoiding it for long enough.

 

[Taken]

Then cometh the end! There you have it. The second coming ushers in the end.

“Ushers in”…..How convenient you can skip over …. Over a 1,000 years …. Prophecy and Make a tidy conclusion in a one liner….
Sort of makes ALL the express detailed Scriptures that expressly applies to every individual….irrelevant.

 

[Taken]

More noise, zero Scripture and more avoidance. This sums up your posts on this thread.

It is time to address the Op. You have been avoiding it for long enough.

I have already stated my Standing and Verified my Standing with Scriptural verification….ONCE was sufficient…IF you missed it …. YOU back track through the threads on this topic….

Mean-time YOUR squirming and avoidance to Present your own Standing, but rather do like some politico big wigs do….and ACCUSE others of what you do….is entertaining…but irrelevant.

 

[Taken]

Glorious And Comforting to be SECURE “IN” Christ and He “IN” me…

VERY ODD…HOW…
God DID NOT CAUSE His tribulations and wrath to come UPON faithful Noah and his Family…

VERY ODD…HOW..
God DID NOT CAUSE Jesus to be Beaten, dragged, humiliated, tortured…

VERY ODD….HOW…
Some men think God HAS NOT an ESCAPE and DELIVERY PLAN for His FAITHFUL during Gods NEXT Tribulation and Wrath He shall send down from Heaven upon the whole world.

Astounding.

 

[jeffweeder]

The millineum is before the judgement into the LOF

Yes I know- but 2 thess 1 and Matt 25 place the judgment at the second coming.




2Thess 1
4 Therefore, we speak of you with pride among the churches of God for your steadfastness [your unflinching endurance, and patience] and your firm faith in the midst of all the persecution and [crushing] distress which you endure.

5 This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering. 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him]. 9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day [that is, glorified through the changed lives of those who have accepted Him as Savior and have been set apart for His purpose], and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed and trusted [and confirmed in your lives].

Surely the above in red refers to final judgment on the day the Lord comes to glorify us.
That passage is also according to the Lords own word given here...,

Matt 25
31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and majesty and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him [for judgment]; and He will separate them from one another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right [the place of honor], and the goats on His left [the place of rejection].

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father [you favored of God, appointed to eternal salvation], inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

41 “Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Leave Me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels (demons)


Surely the above in red is speaking of Gods righteous judgment- Inheriting a restored Eden (NHNE) or the lake of fire when he comes.

Your disagreement is with the Lord and Paul not me.

 

[jeffweeder]

The Son of Man was SENT to Earth…HUMBLED.
The Son of God with POWER left the Earth, last seen IN the Clouds.
The Lord shall descend to the Clouds and call up to meet Him those IN Christ.
The Lamb shall go to meet the SEALED 144,000 tribesmen servants ISRAEL told to meet on Mt ZION.
The Son of Man WITH POWER BECOMES visible to the whole world when appears sitting on a white Cloud.
He shall watch His angel servant DIVIDE and SEPARATE those with and without God.
When the Christ is REVEALED…is when He steps forth to Claim His Kingdom on Earth…and WITH HIM…IS His Church and His hoy servant Angels….and outside of His Kingdom are a remnant of mortal believing men who survived death during the Tribulation….building towns, cities, nations, governments according to Gods word.

AND NOT YET has those OUTSIDE of Christ’s Kingdom ALL come Against Christ….nor the First Resurrection or the Second Resurrection taken place.

You skip a lot of what must come to pass.

Glory to God,
Taken

Why not take the Lords own word and quote that? That will suffice.
A lot of you and your interpretations that are not on the same page as the Lords own word.

 

[Keraz]

How does Acts 13:36 prove David still sleeps in his grave?

Act 13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

Confirmed by Eccl 9:5 The dead know nothing.......
Paul does say; Our citizenship is kept in heaven.... but that does not mean we go to live there. Only after the Millennium, will all the dead since Adam be brought before God to face Judgment.
THEN, if your name is found in the Book of Life, you will receive immortality and will live in the new heavens and earth. Revelation 21 to 22.