Poll: Do we worship the God of the old covenant?

[PGS11]

We don't follow the old covenant Jesus is the New covenant but God is the same.The old covenant could not be followed by the Israelites they failed over and over.I don't think we would do much better. Its said if they had been able to follow the old covenant perfectly Jesus would not have had to come. I don't know if thats true.We should not be practicing Jewish Law we are Christians not Jews we should be following the words of Christ.
One of the Laws that was practice he did not like which he spoke about at the Sermon on the Mount - no eye for an eye to forgive instead that one obviously really Got to him.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I think however this passage of Scripture does speak of us having different access to God in the NC but does not imply the God Himself has changed in any way.

Heb 10

16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them
after those days, declares the Lord:
I will put my laws on their hearts,
and write them on their minds,”

17 then he adds,
“I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”
18 Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.

19 Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, 20 by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

 

[Carl Emerson]

"ALL of Scripture". Whatever that means.

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What do you think the Scripture that could not be broken is ???

 

[Stumpmaster]

Thanks.

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Going deep into theology, Old Testament, New Testament, behold, there is conflict and trauma and resolution in them both. Feed upon it to your heart's content, there is no end to it except in Christ Himself, Emannuel, God with us.

 

[Carl Emerson]

"ALL of Scripture". Whatever that means.

[

Jesus quoted the Septuagint.

Are you trying to find wriggle room to be released from accountability to the Wisdom and Truth of the OT ???

 

[Jay Ross]

Oh! the arguments around whether or not the old covenant is better or worse than the new covenant.

In both the OT and the NT God offers to us salvation and as such God's Salvation Covenant is not different, however, the process by which we can obtain that salvation was very different as the process changes from the yearly sacrifice of animals to cover the sins of the Israelites before the cross to the sacrifice of Christ on the cross once for all of mankind after the resurrection of Christ from the grave. The Salvation Covenant is very ancient, and has been in existence since the time of Adam's creation and as Jesus told His disciples, in the manner that I would paraphrase, He told His disciples this: -

“Therefore, every scribe who has been discipled in the things of the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who brings out of his treasure things that have been refreshed and are yet still ancient, from the time of Adam.”​

God is more concerned about whether we are planted in His fertile soil than by which of His "covenant" we have obtained our salvation through.

Otherwise, what has been penned above is simply just hogwash concerning which is the best covenant or time period in which it applied.

Shalom

 

[Brakelite]

Which God is the angel recommending here, the OT God or the NT God...
“6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. ”
Revelation 14:6,7. KJV

It's both. Jesus is the Creator. Jesus stood on Sinai and gave Moses the tables of the Covenant. Jesus gave His life a ransom for many.
“To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. ”
2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV

 

[St. SteVen]

What do you think the Scripture that could not be broken is ???

That's a good question.
Since it was a debate between Jesus and the religious leaders, I think he used this statement to make a point.
It was probably a common belief among those he was debating. I don't think he was making a BIG point about OT scripture.
He brought the new covenant. Old covenant scriptures led to that, but weren't entirely applicable.

Hebrews 8:7. 13 NIV
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. ...
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

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[St. SteVen]

Jesus quoted the Septuagint.

Indeed.
That's a curious thing. The OT in Greek. And Jesus usually quoted from it. (instead of the Hebrew) ???

Are you trying to find wriggle room to be released from accountability to the Wisdom and Truth of the OT ???

Like the law we are not under? - LOL
This is how we ended up with folks thinking we are under the OT law. "It's in the Bible." (duh)

[

 

[Brakelite]

That's a good question.
Since it was a debate between Jesus and the religious leaders, I think he used this statement to make a point.
It was probably a common belief among those he was debating. I don't think he was making a BIG point about OT scripture.
He brought the new covenant. Old covenant scriptures led to that, but weren't entirely applicable.

Hebrews 8:7. 13 NIV
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. ...
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

[

Are you suggesting that the fault with the old Covenant was with the giver of the law, and that He changed because His laws were insufficient for their purpose?
God's remedy for the sin problem remained the same throughout all time. Sacrifice. And He was the sacrifice. The animals in the OT pointed to Himself. So there was nothing faulty from His side, but from the people's side who made false promises they couldn't keep. But God's promises that He would forgive, have mercy, and heal people from their sins, addictions, and evil natures never changed. Same God from creation to today. Same remedy for sin, from the fall to today. Same conditions and obligations for man to receive eternal life, faith and obedience, from creation to today.
What else hasn't changed? Satan's constant attempts to distort, twist, misrepresent the character and holiness of the Lawgiver, and the holiness and eternal nature of the law itself. Satan has done this by confusing the laws in the minds of people, and thus confusing the nature and purpose of the Lawgiver.

 

[St. SteVen]

Are you suggesting that the fault with the old Covenant was with the giver of the law, and that He changed because His laws were insufficient for their purpose?

I agree that it is the same God. What has changed is the perception of humankind toward the creator.
Those who wrote the OT had a different view of God than those who wrote the NT. Same God, different view.

[ cc: @Carl Emerson

 

[Carl Emerson]

That's a good question.
Since it was a debate between Jesus and the religious leaders, I think he used this statement to make a point.
It was probably a common belief among those he was debating. I don't think he was making a BIG point about OT scripture.
He brought the new covenant. Old covenant scriptures led to that, but weren't entirely applicable.

Hebrews 8:7. 13 NIV
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. ...
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

[

Covenant and Scripture are two different issues.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Indeed.
That's a curious thing. The OT in Greek. And Jesus usually quoted from it. (instead of the Hebrew) ???

Not really - the trade language in His day was Greek and was understood in the whole of the known World - Hebrew not so much.

His audience was a mix of cultures at times and communication in Greek was logical.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Indeed.
That's a curious thing. The OT in Greek. And Jesus usually quoted from it. (instead of the Hebrew) ???


Like the law we are not under? - LOL
This is how we ended up with folks thinking we are under the OT law. "It's in the Bible." (duh)

[

Mmmm.. wriggling again...

I said Wisdom and Truth - not Law.

 

[MatthewG]

I like the old testament, there are many pictures and types of raw images of the human race, and the rawness of Yahavah and his decisions, along with the Israelites making their decision.... and many pictures of Yeshua who was the Word of God to come.

like crying because of no food when given manna, or storing extra for the morning but only to wake up to maggots.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I agree that it is the same God. What has changed is the perception of humankind toward the creator.
Those who wrote the OT had a different view of God than those who wrote the NT. Same God, different view.

[ cc: @Carl Emerson

So the OT is human perception and not inspiration ?

 

[Stumpmaster]

Those who wrote the OT had a different view of God than those who wrote the NT. Same God, different view.

​

 

[Brakelite]

There is the perception in Christianity today that the God of the OT is a God of law, and of judgement, and that the means to salvation for the Jews was obedience, in contrast to the NT where God is a God of love and mercy, and salvation is by grace and not law.
But the most beautiful name for God is in the OT. Not a name given Him by man, but His real name He declared personally to Moses, describing His true character.

“6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, 7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation. ”
Exodus 34:6-7 KJV

 

[St. SteVen]

Covenant and Scripture are two different issues.

Not entirely.
The Bible (Scripture) is separated into two parts, The Old Testament (Covenant) and the New Testament (Covenant).
What is the reason for this separation into two parts?

Hebrews 8:6 NIV
But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as
the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one,
since the new covenant is established on better promises.

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[St. SteVen]

Not really - the trade language in His day was Greek and was understood in the whole of the known World - Hebrew not so much.

His audience was a mix of cultures at times and communication in Greek was logical.

Yes, of course. But to whom was his ministry directed?

Matthew 15:24 NIV
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

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