The 4 horseman judgments

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Ronald David Bruno

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2020
4,617
2,318
113
Southern
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
A Dream about Locusts
Experienced by
Stephanie from Lemoore, CA. USA

"I had this dream on 02/21/2019

It was like 5 PM still daylight; the sun is still out but about to set.

I was standing at the top of a hill with my aunt. We were both watching everyone being social and enjoying themselves. It was my family and many other people I've never seen before. We were all standing on beautiful green grassland with many hills and little trees. It felt like we were waiting for something.

The sky quickly caught our attention because there was a thunder-like roar that came from it. Suddenly a very dark cloud covered the sky, but this cloud had a noise that sounded like horses galloping and wings flapping; it stayed in the sky for a few seconds...

Then I hear my aunt screaming to everyone, "GET INSIDE IT'S LOCUSTS!! LOCUSTS ARE COMING! Run!" They came down so quickly and stung many people. The cries from those who were stung were horrible.

And as I'm watching all of this happen, I'm thinking to myself, "what are locusts?! What's going on..." and as I'm thinking this, I wake up.

When I woke up, I still had that same adrenaline from my dream.
I googled what a locust was because I didn't know what my dream meant.

And as I'm searching "locusts in a dream meaning," I come upon "Revelation 9, the fifth trumpet and I was shaking because I didn't know what God was trying to tell me.

And so as I read about it, I think God is warning us that he's coming. And this COVID thing is like the 1st woe of the three that will happen."
 

Stewardofthemystery

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2024
1,412
317
83
62
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
sting and torture those who have the mark of the Beast for 5 months. So painful is their sting, that their victims want to die, but cannot.
Don't symbolize away from the true meaning that God intended us to grasp.
Water turns to blood. The Sun, moon and stars are darkened in 1/3 of the world. Why? Smoke from that part of the world which is on fire caused by wars, volcanic eruptions, massive tsunamis causing destruction of the sea vessels, the sea turns to blood, men are scorched by the sun, death to fish, 100 lb hailstones, bodily sores ... all literally happen.
That said, some symbolism is there. For instance, the 1st Rider on the White horse is popularly interpreted as the Antichrist. He goes out to conquer. He was given a crown. He wasn't wearing it, he had it, along with a bow. The Corona Virus looks like a crown. This virus spread and conquered the world ( as if this mysterious rider traveled the world and shot his viral arrows into his victims). This power behind this exercised control over the entire planet and we all complied, obeyed, got in line to receive the vaccine, social distanced, closed stores as they picked and choosed which ones were essential, wore masks... This massive authoritative control over all the world has never happened before. It was a dress rehearsal for what us to come, when the Antichrist is finally revealed.
Here is the sting that is in their tail….
1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin

But believe what you will.
 

Ronald David Bruno

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2020
4,617
2,318
113
Southern
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Here is the sting that is in their tail….
1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin

But believe what you will.
You just don't search the word sting somewhere else in the Bible to try to find the meaning. Death has a sting but in this situation, God prevents people from dying. It specifically describes the sting as the sting of a scorpion. So why not just receive that explanation without getting lost in your symbolic mumbo jumbo?
"During those days people will seek death but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them." Rev. 9:6

Context!
 
Last edited:

Ronald David Bruno

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2020
4,617
2,318
113
Southern
Faith
Christian
Country
United States

Rules of Hermeneutics

WHEN THE PLAIN SENSE OF SCRIPTURE MAKES COMMON SENSE, SEEK NO OTHER SENSE; THEREFORE, TAKE EVERY WORD AT ITS PRIMARY, ORDINARY, USUAL, LITERAL MEANING UNLESS THE FACTS OF THE IMMEDIATE CONTEXT, STUDIED IN THE LIGHT OF RELATED PASSAGES AND AXIOMATIC AND FUNDAMENTAL TRUTHS INDICATE CLEARLY OTHERWISE.

A. Seek the plain, literal meaning of the Scriptures

B. Seek the figurative meaning only when the facts
demand such an interpretation
>> Modernism and rationalism are the logical outgrowth of forcing a figurative meaning upon a passage that is clearly literal, or vice versa.

C. Study every statement of the Scriptures in context
("A TEXT APART FROM ITS CONTEXT IS A PRETEXT")

Then study the facts of the context in the light of related passages and axiomatic fundamental truths.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stumpmaster

Stash

Member
Mar 26, 2024
234
88
28
71
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Some believe this sign has all to do with food shortages and famine alone, but I believe it has a much deeper meaning than just that; as the barley symbolizes the first harvest and the Jews, and the wheat tends to symbolize the fall harvest, or the great harvest and the Gentiles. We were also shown the kingdom of Heaven is like “3 measures of meal “by Jesus in Matthew 13:33.

The statement “hurt not the oil and wine” in the last part of Revelation 6:6 also has a deeper meaning pertaining to those who are sealed by Gods Holy anointing “oil” (Holy Spirit) and those who are washed inthe blood (wine) of the Lamb. We will also see this protection by the seal later on in our study of the Revelation.

This sign of protection was also shown in the Exodus from Egypt story when the Lord poured out His plagues upon Pharaoh and his servants. But the Hebrews were protected from many of these judgments.

Moving on to Revelation 6:7-8 “And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword,and with hunger, and with death, and withthe beasts of the earth.”

Again notice the 4th horseman brings “all four sore judgments” mentioned in Ezekiel 14:21 (sword, famine, noisome beasts, and pestilence) or as listed in Rev. 6:8 (sword, hunger, death, and the beasts of the earth) I believe the beasts mentioned there are not literal 4 legged beasts, but rather “men who act like brute beasts”, which I’ll explain in a bit.

Jesus foretold of all these sore judgments in Matthew 24:4-8 “And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.” (1st horse is white, looks like Christ, but is not; conquers by deception.)

6 “And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.” (2nd Red horse with sword, takes away peace)

7 “For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.” (includes both 3rd and 4th horseman)

8” All these are the beginning of sorrows.” (hell followed after the 4th horseman)

I believe the name of the 4th rider being “Death” is because the wages of sin is Death. And the power given him over the 4th part of the earth has to with the wheat, which was the 4th part shown in Revelation 6:6; there were 3 parts barleyand 1 part wheat, so the wheat is the 4th part, which represents “the Gentile nations”. Like I said before, I believe there are 2 separate tribulation periods as Paul also confirmed. Paul said tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man that does evil, “first to the Jew”, and then to the Nations. The first tribulation to the Jews is broken down into 3 main parts, like we saw with the 42 generations broken into 3 parts of 14 in Matthew 1:17. The last tribulation period is global, and is the last part, being the 4th part.

In Ezekiel we see the story of the dividing of the hairs into parts, and the judgments determined on each of the third parts inEzekiel 5:12 “A third part of thee shall die with the pestilence, and with famineshall they be consumed in the midst of thee: and a third part shall fall by the sword round about thee; and I will scattera third part into all the winds, and I will draw out a sword after them.

This mention of third parts, and also the remnant we will also see later on in our studies. But right now I would like to go back to the meaning of the 4th horsemen killing with “the beasts of the earth” in Revelation 6:8.

Notice the killing is with the beasts of the earth, or the noisome (meaning disgusting, injurious) beasts as was shown in Ezekiel. Many may believe the Lord is talking about animals here, but the Lord is truly speaking of “men who act like wild and evil beasts” depending on their brutal nature.

In Ecclesiastes 3:18 “I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men,that God might manifest them, and that they might see that “they themselves are beasts”.

This killing with the beasts was also shown in the 4th and final beast in Daniel (dreadful, terrible beast) that was made up of all the 3 previous beasts combined; like the 4th horseman carried all the 3 previous horseman’s judgments. These 3 previous beast natures are also shown in the final 4th beast are seen here inRevelation 13:2 “And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.” These 4 beasts were also mentioned in Daniel chapter 7 verses 4-7 (lion, bear, leopard, and then the dreadful terrible beast = 4th beast).

What many may not know though is the Lord foretold of these 4 sore judgments, and also of these 4 beasts in Hosea 13:7-8

7 Therefore I will be unto them “as a lion”: “as a leopard” by the way will I observe them: 8 I will meet them “as a bear” that is bereaved of her whelps, and will rend the caul of their heart, and there will I devour them like a lion: “the wild beast” shall tear them.” So like the 4 beasts kingdoms foretold of by the Lord to carry out His righteous indignation and judgments, the 4 horseman judgments were also foreshadowed of in the four sore judgments shown to us in Ezekiel 14:21.

It is easy for us to see the death in this world by the 3; ( sword, famine, and the pestilence) looking back on history. But many may not truly understand the meaning of the death by beasts of the earth; which truly the Lord is referring to “men acting like evil beasts” as we see in the world these days.

In the daily news it is not hard to find men killing one another by blowing one another up, or shooting their fellow man, or stabbing, or beheading, or running them over with vehicles, or poisoning, etc. This is not to mention the “poison doctrine” of evil men who like natural brute beasts also corrupt the hearts and minds of many with their carnally minded doctrine. It is also written; to be carnally minded is Death.
I believe we are in the fifth seal, waiting for the sixth
I also think the beast is referring to the beast system. Which, of course could include the type of people you were referring , but mainly a system.

And not only can we take some of this literally, it has to also be spiritually connected when it talks about famine and other things

Spiritually dead is what it is referring to
 

Stewardofthemystery

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2024
1,412
317
83
62
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You just don't search the word sting somewhere else in the Bible to try to find the meaning. Death has a sting but in this situation, God prevents people from dying. It specifically describes the sting as the sting of a scorpion. So why not just receive that explanation without getting lost in your symbolic mumbo jumbo?
"During those days people will seek death but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them." Rev. 9:6

Context!
The wording is very Important into understanding the mystery, but without the Holy Spirit the carnally minded man will not understand because all he knows is what he knows naturally and in those things he corrupts himself.

The locusts army are not literal locusts coming out of hell, but they are evils spirits that enter into men and cause them to sin and be tormented by sin. It was prophesied that in the end many would depart from the faith be given over to seducing spirits and doctrines of Devils. Jesus also spoke of the evil spirit of the Devil and 7 more wicked spirits that would enter into those who fell away from the faith and how the last state of this wicked generation would be worse than its first state.

God “likened” the seed of evil doers as to serpents and scorpions, that is a why we are shown this symbolism in the locust army. The power in their tails means they power of the false prophet spirit is in them to hurt only those who are not sealed by Gods Holy Spirit.

Here is what the power in the tail represents…

Isaiah 9:15
The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.

This same power to lead people astray is also shown in the tail of the Red Dragon who drew away a third of the angels of heaven by his lies and deception.
 

Stewardofthemystery

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2024
1,412
317
83
62
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I also think the beast is referring to the beast system. Which, of course could include the type of people you were referring , but mainly a system.

And not only can we take some of this literally, it has to also be spiritually connected when it talks about famine and other things

Spiritually dead is what it is referring to

Right, it is the spirit of the beast that works in many. That singular spirit is “the sin nature” of the beast that is at work in all those who are of the Devil. Just as it is written, whosoever sins is of the Devil.

And yes death is not always talking about physical death but spiritual.

Like here…
1 Timothy 5:6
But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.

So Death killing by sin does not always mean people are physically dying but are dying spiritually by sin.
 

Ronald David Bruno

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2020
4,617
2,318
113
Southern
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The locusts army are not literal locusts coming out of hell, but they are evils spirits that enter into men and cause them to sin and be tormented by sin.
They are evil spirits that manifest themselves as locusts with stingers that literally torture men.
Sin has caused much pain and torment throughout history, but this is the end of history, judgment for their sins.
Jesus also spoke of the evil spirit of the Devil and 7 more wicked spirits that would enter into those who fell away from the faith and how the last state of this wicked generation would be worse than its first state.
He did. This generation is worse but again, this is judgment.
God “likened” the seed of evil doers as to serpents and scorpions, that is a why we are shown this symbolism in the locust army
Nope. Are you in denial of this coming Great Tribulation? You seem to want to down play and symbolize agid's judgment. It will be severe. I suppose the Flood symbolized something else to you?
The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.
Context please. This refers to Israel
Therefore the Lord will cut off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush, in one day.

15 The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.

16 For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.

Romans 11 says branches were cut off from the Vine so that the Gentiles could be grafted in.
This same power to lead people astray is also shown in the tail of the Red Dragon who drew away a third of the angels of heaven by his lies and deception.
The Dragon did take 1/3 of the angels _ before Adam and Eve were created, in the beginning. This is judgment time, the end. Whoever was led astray, deceived and sinned without forgiveness is now being judged.
I'm done, you are lost in this symbolic zone. You seem to have developed your own hermeneutics - ( like perterists do). Should have gone to school for that to learn how to interpret scripture.
 

Stewardofthemystery

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2024
1,412
317
83
62
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Nope. Are you in denial of this coming Great Tribulation? You seem to want to down play and symbolize agid's judgment. It will be severe.
No, there is a great tribulation coming upon the whole world beginning at the 6th seal, but not ALL the plagues mentioned are to be physical plagues. There are also spiritual plagues of the heart/mind that are present now that many dismiss as “mental illness.” The natural man will not understand the spiritual things of God because they are to be spiritually discerned by the Holy Spirit.
Context please. This refers to Israel
Therefore the Lord will cut off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush, in one day.
You need to understand the prophecy of the Head and tail….
Deuteronomy 28:13
And the Lord shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the Lord thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:”

Those who are born from above are of the Head, as Christ is the Head of His body the Church. Those who are of this world are from below and are of the tail.

The Dragon did take 1/3 of the angels _ before Adam and Eve were created, in the beginning.
Wrong, this event happened at Christs first coming…

Revelation 12
King James Version

12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

I'm done, you are lost in this symbolic zone. You seem to have developed your own hermeneutics - ( like perterists do). Should have gone to school for that to learn how to interpret scripture.
The wind blows where it will…

John 3:8-12
King James Version

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
 

Stewardofthemystery

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2024
1,412
317
83
62
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
1 John 2:27
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

James 1:5-6
King James Version

5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.”

Call no man you Teacher! For One is our Teacher even Christ.

Galatians 1:12
For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ

Ephesians 4:21
If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

John 6:45
It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
 

Ronald David Bruno

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2020
4,617
2,318
113
Southern
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
1 John 2:27
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

James 1:5-6​

King James Version​

5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.”

Call no man you Teacher! For One is our Teacher even Christ.

Galatians 1:12
For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ

Ephesians 4:21
If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

John 6:45
It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
The scriptures are all true. The born again Christian will be taught by the Holy Spirit, gradually over a lifetime. Time and life's experiences, lessons learned accompany this teaching. As a young child takes many years to complete his education; so it is with Christians. Knowledge, wisdom, discernment come in bits and pieces over a lifetime.
All Christians have the Holy Spirit. So why aren't we all understanding all scriptures perfectly? We are not. You keep throwing these verses at me as if I do not have the Holy Spirit. STOP. The reason there are differences is because we do not have the mind of God. God lives in us. He guides us, influences us; but we still have our own minds. Jesus was one with the Father. Jesus is God. He did not err. We are each individual souls, starting out as infants, influenced by God but still receiving mixed signals from outside sources and leaning on our own understanding. We are not 100% controlled by and receptive to God. If we were, then we would all read one scripture and all understand it perfectly; and there would be one denomination and we would not need priests or pastors. Reading the Bible once through would be all we needed. We'd be as mature and knowledgeable as someone with a PHd from a seminary who has pastored for fifty years. I have the Spirit. So does John MacArthur and RC Sproul. So what's the difference? They have discernment and so do I ... so? Yet they probably know fifty times more than I do for several reasons: they were led by the Holy Spirit to become teachers, they were gifted, but they studied and received massive amounts of theology and had the minds equipped to absorb and contain it and put lots of time into it.
Still they both have a different view of Revelation ... and so do I. God apparently has not enlightened us all with the same understanding concerning Eschatology. Mysteries are left open for us to ponder. Yet for me, it is easier to just take it literally as much as possible. He tells us what's going to happen.
You can get lost in symbolism if you choose to.
 
Last edited:

Stewardofthemystery

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2024
1,412
317
83
62
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
All Christians have the Holy Spirit. So why aren't we all understanding all scriptures perfectly? We are not. You keep throwing these verses at me as if I do not have the Holy Spirit. STOP. The reason there are differences is because we do not have the mind of God. God lives in us. He guides us, influences us; but we still have our own minds. Jesus was one with the Father. Jesus is God. He did not err. We are each individual souls, starting out as infants, influenced by God but still receiving mixed signals from outside sources and leaning on our own understanding. We are not 100% controlled by and receptive to God. If we were, then we would all read one scripture and all understand it perfectly; and there would be one denomination and we would not need priests or pastors. Reading the Bible once through would be all we needed. We'd be as mature and knowledgeable as someone with a PHd from a seminary who has pastored for fifty years. I have the Spirit. So does John MacArthur and RC Sproul. So what's the difference? They have discernment and so do I ... so? Yet they probably know fifty times more than I do for several reasons: they were led by the Holy Spirit to become teachers, they were gifted, but they studied and received massive amounts of theology and had the minds equipped to absorb and contain it and put lots of time into it.
Still they both have a different view of Revelation ... and so do I. God apparently has not enlightened us all with the same understanding concerning Eschatology. Mysteries are left open for us to ponder. Yet for me, it is easier to just take it literally as much as possible. He tells us what's going to happen.
You can get lost in symbolism if you choose to.
I believe there are a lot of people who call themselves Christians but are yet carnal, meaning they have not yet been born again of the Holy Spirit.

It is like with the religious types of Israel when John and Jesus came, these religious scholars thought they understood the scriptures, but they did not. Even the apostles did not fully understand the many parables of Jesus until after they had received the Holy Spirit.

God made foolish the wisdom of this world that is why you need the Wisdom of God to understand the many mysteries found in His words.

God is the only One who can reveal these mysteries to men by His Spirit, and to whomsoever He chooses.

1 Corinthians 2:11
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
 

Ronald David Bruno

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2020
4,617
2,318
113
Southern
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I believe there are a lot of people who call themselves Christians but are yet carnal, meaning they have not yet been born again of the Holy Spirit.
You do not know what is in a person's heart. Carnal means sarx, fleshly. We Still sin and have the flesh. Sin dwells in the members of our flesh and we are to die to our flesh daily, mortifying it. We mature and get better at it.
In 1 Cor. 3:1-3, Paul is addressing the readers as “brethren,” a term he uses almost exclusively to refer to other Christians; he then goes on to describe them as “carnal.” Therefore, we can conclude that Christians can be carnal. The Bible is absolutely clear that no one is sinless.
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:8

Let's say that another way: If the truth is in us, we admit that we sin and are not deceived. This message is to believers and unbelievers. I've heard people say otherwise, but obviously the truth is not in unbelievers.
This is why we are to regualrly confess our sins - even though the blood of Christ washes all our sins, past, present and future. What do you think " the spirit wars against the flesh andth3 flesh wars against the spirit" means. We have both, we still have our flesh. Though we are to render it dead, yet we are not yet fully redeemed UNTIL we are physically dead - then we will be seoarate our flesh. We still backdlide into our old ways and act selfishly. Otherwise, all Christians would be perfect loving people all the time. Do you think you are? When given the opportunity to love in some way, do you always say yes to that person or sometimes no, make an excuse, basically act selfishly ( carnal)? Hey, if you act selfishly at all at any time, that's carnal, that's not being perfect. Will you just drop everything and go to a starving country and care for orphans for the rest of your life? Some people like Mother Teresa have, and that is selfless, thinking of others more than themselves, sacrificing their lives.
Every time we sin, we are acting carnally.
>> Or do you claim to be one of of those sinless Christians?
 

Stewardofthemystery

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2024
1,412
317
83
62
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
We Still sin and have the flesh. Sin dwells in the members of our flesh and we are to die to our flesh daily, mortifying it. We mature and get better at it.
In 1 Cor. 3:1-3, Paul is addressing the readers as “brethren,” a term he uses almost exclusively to refer to other Christians; he then goes on to describe them as “carnal.” Therefore, we can conclude that Christians can be carnal. The Bible is absolutely clear that no one is sinless.
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:8

Let's say that another way: If the truth is in us, we admit that we sin and are not deceived. This message is to believers and unbelievers. I've heard people say otherwise, but obviously the truth is not in unbelievers.
This is why we are to regualrly confess our sins - even though the blood of Christ washes all our sins, past, present and future. What do you think " the spirit wars against the flesh andth3 flesh wars against the spirit" means. We have both, we still have our flesh. Though we are to render it dead, yet we are not yet fully redeemed UNTIL we are physically dead - then we will be seoarate our flesh. We still backdlide into our old ways and act selfishly. Otherwise, all Christians would be perfect loving people all the time. Do you think you are? When given the opportunity to love in some way, do you always say yes to that person or sometimes no, make an excuse, basically act selfishly ( carnal)? Hey, if you act selfishly at all at any time, that's carnal, that's not being perfect. Will you just drop everything and go to a starving country and care for orphans for the rest of your life? Some people like Mother Teresa have, and that is selfless, thinking of others more than themselves, sacrificing their lives.
Every time we sin, we are acting carnally.
>> Or do you claim to be one of of those sinless Christians?
If you are born again of the Spirit you are no longer in the flesh, meaning that Adam sin nature has been put to death in you. If something is DEAD it is no longer active.

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.