Is your faith your own? - Is "the Faith" prescribed by a human institution?

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J

Johann

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I'm questioning what the key verse is referring to. It makes a difference.
What was it that was once for all entrusted to the saints?
- The message of salvation by belief in Jesus = the faith
- The practice of the Christian religion = The Faith

[
In Jude 1:3, the Greek word πίστει (pistei), which is translated as "faith" in English, appears in the dative singular form. The Greek text does include the definite article τῇ before πίστει, indicating that it is "the faith" rather than simply "faith" without the definite article.

Here's the relevant part of the verse in Greek with its translation:

τῇ πίστει: "the faith"
The presence of the definite article τῇ specifies a particular faith, which in this context is understood to be the faith that was "once for all delivered to the saints." This suggests that Jude is referring to the specific body of Christian doctrine or belief system that was handed down to the early believers, rather than faith in a general or abstract sense.

So, grammatically and morphologically, the Greek text does include the definite article, making it "the faith."

The specific faith was "delivered" and was to be "contended for." The belief system #3 satisfies this context. However, my point is that this should be understood as #3 "a particular belief system" any way because the definite article accompanies faith. It is "the" faith.

Jud 1:3 Ἀγαπητοί Beloved, G27 A-VPM πᾶσαν All G3956 A-ASF σπουδὴν Diligence G4710 N-ASF ποιούμενος Using G4160 V-PMP-NSM γράφειν To Write G1125 V-PAN ὑμῖν To You G5213 P-2DP περὶ Concerning G4012 PREP τῆς The G3588 T-GSF κοινῆς Common G2839 A-GSF σωτηρίας Salvation, G4991 N-GSF ἀνάγκην Necessity G318 N-ASF ἔσχον I Had G2192 V-2AAI-1S γράψαι To Write G1125 V-AAN ὑμῖν To You, G5213 P-2DP παρακαλῶν Exhorting G3870 V-PAP-NSM ἐπαγωνίζεσθαι You To Contend Earnestly G1864 V-PNN τῇ For The G3588 T-DSF ἅπαξ Once G530 ADV παραδοθείσῃ Delivered G3860 V-APP-DSF τοῖς To The G3588 T-DPM ἁγίοις Saints G40 A-DPM πίστει Faith. G4102 N-DSF

So-let's up the ante-

Why Must We Contend for the Faith?


The third question is, why must we contend for the faith? Jude provides a simple answer: because there are false teachers. Christians cannot allow false teachers to do what they do. Jesus, along with the other New Testament authors, warned of the coming of false teachers (e.g. Acts 20:29-30; 2 Cor 11; Col 2:4-5; 1Tim 4:1; 6:20; 2 Tim 4:3; 2 Pet 2:1; 3:4). These are texts with direct statements claiming that false teachers are coming and are currently present in our churches now. In this letter Jude is sounding the alarm: “Church, be aware!”

Beyond Jude’s simple answer is a second reason we must contend earnestly for the faith: Satan’s strategy to counterfeit the true faith. This is a truth that is clearly understood both biblically and experientially. One does not have to read too far into the two thousand year history of Christianity to understand Satan’s strategy is to counterfeit the truth of God. My mother worked at a bank for many years as a bank teller. I asked her one time, what kind of training she went through to learn how to distinguish a counterfeit bill from the real thing. She said, “None. A bank teller handles so much of the real thing that they can spot a counterfeit in an instant.” A true Christian, well-grounded in Scripture, can spot counterfeit doctrine.



How Must We Contend for the Faith?

A fourth question is, how must we contend for the faith? Jude provides another simple answer – επαγωνιζομαι, “earnestly.” The root of this Greek word in Jude is a form of the word, “agony.” Moreover, the prefixed preposition intensifies the word.[5] The term was used to describe the agonizing pain one experiences in running a long distance race. An alternate translation could be “earnestly fight,” for it is also a military combat term picturing hand-to-hand combat like a Roman soldier engaged with an enemy. One who does not stand his ground will be defeated. It is a superlative word of intensity. That is how one is to contend for the faith.

Doctrinal error must always be taken seriously and refuted in the church. In doing so, however, we must be sure to distinguish between that which is false teaching-heresy-from that which is disagreement on secondary doctrinal issues. For example, consider the varying doctrinal interpretations of eschatology. There are those who hold to premillennialism. Some of these are post-tribulational and believe that Christians are going through the great tribulation before the rapture of the church. Others hold to pretribulationism, believing the rapture will occur before the great tnbulat10n. Some hold to an amillennial interpretation of eschatology while still others are postmillennial. Great debate exists among all advocates of these positions and all are legitimate interpretations, yet none should claim any of the others are heretics, apostates, or false teachers.

Disagreements do not always indicate the presence of false teachers. There is a huge difference between eschatological views that are not clearly delineated in Scripture and views, such as the deity of Christ, the blood atonement, the second-coming, or the virgin birth, that are clearly in Scripture. Denying these doctrines places one outside of doctrinal orthodoxy. Secondary doctrinal issues, however, should be discussed and debated, but we do not need to contend for secondary doctrinal issues as if they were cardinal doctrines of “the faith.” Christians must not confuse “the faith” with secondary issues that are able to remain within doctrinal orthodoxy.

When we contend for the faith, we should not do so m a contentious manner, even when we are contending with those who are false teachers. In these cases, Christians are to contend firmly but in love. We must have an eye toward reclaiming false teachers, if possible, or gaining them for the faith if they have never truly been converted.

The message of Jude is vital for the twenty-first century. Error is rampant in our churches. Truth must be proclaimed and defended. This was Jude’s burden and it ought to be ours to shoulder with him.
 

Stumpmaster

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Good post, thanks.
This is the point. If Jude 1:3 is referring to The Faith, then it is just another religion among many.
I don't think THAT is what "was once for all entrusted to the saints." refers to.

[
Thinking . . .

Hearing the Word of God brings faith, so what God has revealed through His Word is what believers are urged to contend for, in deference to what is set forth by those who deny "the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."
 
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St. SteVen

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What was delivered to the Apostles is The faith.
Defined as: the practice of the Christian religion = The Faith
Let's drop that into the Jude 1:3 verse text to see if it works.

..., I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for
the practice of the Christian religion that was once for all
entrusted to the saints.


Does that work for you?

[
 

St. SteVen

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The message of Jude is vital for the twenty-first century. Error is rampant in our churches. Truth must be proclaimed and defended. This was Jude’s burden and it ought to be ours to shoulder with him.
The last paragraph in your post.

Absolute truth - Do we know what it is?

Jesus said to Pilate, "... the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.” Pilate asked Jesus, "What is truth?" - John 18:37-38 NIV Still a good question. Absolute truth - Do we know what it is?

Is Truth Relevant? True and False are opinions. - True or False?

A follow-up to this previous (short-lived) topic: https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/absolute-truth-do-we-know-what-it-is.63543/ Absolute truth - Do we know what it is? Jesus said to Pilate, "... the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the...

[
 

St. SteVen

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The last paragraph in your post.

Absolute truth - Do we know what it is?

Jesus said to Pilate, "... the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.” Pilate asked Jesus, "What is truth?" - John 18:37-38 NIV Still a good question. Absolute truth - Do we know what it is?

Is Truth Relevant? True and False are opinions. - True or False?

A follow-up to this previous (short-lived) topic: https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/absolute-truth-do-we-know-what-it-is.63543/ Absolute truth - Do we know what it is? Jesus said to Pilate, "... the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the...

[
And this.


[
 
J

Johann

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Defined as: the practice of the Christian religion = The Faith
Let's drop that into the Jude 1:3 verse text to see if it works.

..., I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for
the practice of the Christian religion that was once for all
entrusted to the saints.


Does that work for you?

[
Let's keep this strictly simple-KISS principle.

In Jude 1:3, the Bible verse "the faith was once for all delivered to the saints" refers to the Christian faith, which Jude, the half-brother of Jesus Christ, urges his readers to defend in his letter. The faith is based on the teachings of the apostles, which Jude says are complete and should not be added to or subtracted from, as this would corrupt the Word of God. The faith is also grounded in Jesus Christ and is expressed through holy living.

Jud 1:3 αγαπητοι πασαν σπουδην ποιουμενος γραφειν υμιν περι της κοινης σωτηριας αναγκην εσχον γραψαι υμιν παρακαλων επαγωνιζεσθαι τη απαξ παραδοθειση τοις [Definite Article]αγιοις πιστει


ho <3588>
o ho including the feminine h he
Pronunciation: ho hay, and the neuter \~to\~ to to
Origin: in all their inflections, the definite article
Reference: -
PrtSpch: article
In Greek: ai 145, h 968, o 2827, oi 1108, ta 823, taiv 203, tav 337, th 870, thn 1516, thv 1285, to 1676, toiv 619, ton 1571, tou 2490, touv 726, tw 1227, twn 1206, tw] 1, [ai] 1, [h 1, [h] 8, [o 7, [oi 2, [oi] 5, [o] 66, [ta 2, [tav] 2, [ta] 5, [th 1, [thn] 8, [thv 2, [thv] 2, [th] 1, [to 1, [toiv] 5, [ton 1, [ton] 5, [tou 7, [touv] 1, [tou] 11, [to] 5, [tw 1, [twn 1, [twn] 4, [tw] 6, [[h 1, [[o 2, [[oi 1, [[to 1, [[tou 1
In NET: the 102, The 7, those 4, King of kings 1, or 1, Lord of 1
In AV: which 413, who 79, the things 11, the son 8, misc 32
Count: 543
Definition: 1) this, that, these, etc.

Only significant renderings other than "the" counted
in all their inflections; the definite article; the (sometimes to be
supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom):-the, this, that, one,
he, she, it, etc.


The term “faith” has a variety of meanings in the NT. Here, the faith refers to the doctrinal content embraced by believers rather than the act of believing. Rather than discuss the points of agreement that Jude would have with these believers, because of the urgency of the present situation he must assume that these believers were well grounded and press on to encourage them to fight for this common belief.
13 sn I now feel compelled instead…saints. Apparently news of some crisis has reached Jude, prompting him to write a different letter than what he had originally planned. A plausible scenario (assuming authenticity of 2 Peter or at least that there are authentic Petrine snippets in it) is that after Peter’s death, Jude intended to write to the same Gentile readers that Peter had written to (essentially, Paul’s churches). Jude starts by affirming that the gospel the Gentiles had received from Paul was the same as the one the Jewish Christians had received from the other apostles (our common salvation). But in the midst of writing this letter, Jude felt that the present crisis deserved another, shorter piece. The crisis, as the letter reveals, is that the false teachers whom Peter prophesied have now infiltrated the church. The letter of Jude is thus an ad hoc letter, intended to confirm the truth of Peter’s letter and encourage the saints to ground their faith in the written documents of the nascent church, rather than listen to the twisted gospel of the false teachers. In large measure, the letter of Jude illustrates the necessity of clinging to the authority of scripture as opposed to those who claim to be prophets.

Thanks.
J.
 
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St. SteVen

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The specific faith was "delivered" and was to be "contended for." The belief system #3 satisfies this context. However, my point is that this should be understood as #3 "a particular belief system" any way because the definite article accompanies faith. It is "the" faith.
Would you agree that "the faith" referred to in Jude 1:3 is in the most basic and essential form, rather than the extension of it that has developed over time, including each development stage?

Jesus teachings > the Apostles teachings > the Eastern church > the Western church >Protestant churches >

Obviously, Jude 1:3 was written early in this continuum.

Therefore: The faith referred to in Jude 1:3 should be Jesus essential teachings, and nothing beyond that, for us to contend for.

Agree, or disagree?

[
 

St. SteVen

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The term “faith” has a variety of meanings in the NT.
Right. That's the point of this topic. How do we define the term "the faith" in Jude 1:3 ???
You've done a good job of researching this, thanks.

[
 
J

Johann

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Would you agree that "the faith" referred to in Jude 1:3 is in the most basic and essential form, rather than the extension of it that has developed over time, including each development stage?

Jesus teachings > the Apostles teachings > the Eastern church > the Western church >Protestant churches >

Obviously, Jude 1:3 was written early in this continuum.

Therefore: The faith referred to in Jude 1:3 should be Jesus essential teachings, and nothing beyond that, for us to contend for.

Agree, or disagree?

[
The idea that "the faith" in Jude 1:3 refers to the most basic and essential form of Christian teaching, as rooted in Jesus' teachings, is a perspective that aligns with the historical context of the epistle. Jude wrote his letter early in the history of the Christian church, likely before many of the theological developments and doctrinal expansions that occurred over the centuries. Here are some considerations:

Context of Jude 1:3:
Jude speaks of "the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints," which suggests a definitive and foundational body of doctrine. This likely refers to the core teachings of Jesus as passed on by the apostles, focusing on the essential truths of the gospel, such as salvation through Christ, the resurrection, and the call to live a holy life.

Early Christian Doctrine:
At the time Jude wrote his letter, the Christian faith was still relatively young and had not yet experienced the extensive theological developments seen in later centuries. The core of "the faith" would have centered around the teachings of Jesus, as faithfully transmitted by the apostles.

Historical Continuum:
As you've pointed out, Christian doctrine has evolved and expanded over time, influenced by various theological debates, councils, and cultural contexts. However, "the faith" Jude refers to would have been understood by his audience as the original apostolic teaching, free from later doctrinal additions or developments.

Implications for Contending:
If we agree that "the faith" in Jude 1:3 refers to this foundational, apostolic teaching, then contending for it would mean upholding the essential truths of Christianity as taught by Jesus and the apostles. This includes the core elements of the gospel and the ethical teachings of Jesus, without necessarily incorporating later theological developments that might be seen as extensions or interpretations of these foundational truths.

So--
I would agree with the perspective that "the faith" in Jude 1:3 refers to the essential teachings of Jesus and the apostles, as these were the foundational doctrines that the early Christians were called to uphold. While the Christian faith has certainly developed over time, the "faith" Jude refers to is likely best understood as the original and unaltered gospel message delivered by Christ and His apostles. Therefore, contending for "the faith" as Jude exhorts would mean remaining true to these core teachings.
 

St. SteVen

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Rather than discuss the points of agreement that Jude would have with these believers, because of the urgency of the present situation he must assume that these believers were well grounded and press on to encourage them to fight for this common belief.
Right.
The common belief. The faith that we all have in common.

/
 
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GodsGrace

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That's, most likely, a safe bet.

What we can know about God is written about in the OT and the NT.
We also have to admit and accept that the understanding of God grew and changed over millennia.

You also didn't reply to my question as to your faith belief....I believe you're reformed.
I say this because only the reformed believe that God created evil because He created everything...
even every little particle that floats around in the air, according to John Piper.

Every other Christian denomination believes God is an all-good God and did not create evil.
ALL GOOD means that there is NO EVIL in Him.

I posted scripture and will not repeat since it'll be of no use.

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (1Jn 2:4)

What does the above have to do with God being all good or of God creating evil?

God created Satan and in scriptural fact creates evil.

By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent. (Job 26:13)

Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech: (Jdg 9:23)

He most certainly is:

For thus saith the LORD; Like as I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them. (Jer 32:42)

But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. (1Sa 16:14)

The LORD GOD DEPARTED FROM SAUL and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

What I'll say is this:
This goes also to the verse most commonly referred to Isaiah 45:7 which states that God has created evil/calamity.

Since all these verses you've posted OPPOSE and CREATE CONFLICT between everything else the bible teaches (as most Calvinist beliefs do) then we must look for a solution.

The solution, not offered by me but by theologians that know much more than we ever will...
is that:

1. The God of the OT revealed Himself to a primitive people and they attributed everything to Him, whether He CAUSED the action or not.

2. The verse means something of deeper spirituality and theology which most persons do not discuss.

For instance, Isaiah 45:7 - calamity happens when God removes Himself from a situation. This is an INDIRECT cause of evil....
ALL evil is INDIRECTLY caused by God because He does NOT STOP IT, but allows nature to take its course.

The reformed believe God CAUSES evil and this belief creates a different God than the biblical God.

God is the Father of all spirits:

Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? (Heb 12:9)


And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather FEAR HIM which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (gehenna). (Mat 10:28)

But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: FEAR HIM, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell (gehenna); yea, I say unto you, Fear him. (Luk 12:5)
The word HELL appears only one time in the NT.....
2 Peter 2:4
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, held for judgment;

I certainly hope you know that the word HELL was incorrectly used in translating other words in the OT and NT that really meant something different....like, for instance the place of the dead.


And the word FEAR, if correctly translated, would mean RESPECT,,,,not fear as you're using it or as many using today.
Not even close.
God did not get a new person
(puppy) he CREATED that person.
Gee. Thanks Beepster.
Great information.
No just a garden:

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? (Gen 3:1)

And the great dragon was cast out, THAT OLD SERPENT, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
(Rev 12:9)
Yes. We understand B.
You claim God created satan....
specifically and for whatever purpose He may have had.

Nice God you serve.
He's got you in that shed with the mice and serpents.
You're allowed to stay in there if you wish.
Yes God is love.

Something most Christians will agree to. Of course when they start to preach about annihilation or hell fire, it becomes obvious that they really don't believe it.
Why do you say this?
Every Christian knows that most of the world population will end up in the other place.
They STILL believe that God is LOVE because Jesus and the NT writers have portrayed Him as such.
Is Jesus the ultimate revelation of God?
Why was further revelation necessary?
Didn't we get the message from the OT?

Christians DO NOT STOP LOVING GOD and trusting Him because most do not accept Him.


1 of 2
 

GodsGrace

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@Beebster

2 of 2


And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (Mat 22:39) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (1Jn 2:4)
What does this have to do with anything?
Yes, after all Christ is the mercy seat.
But then there's that hell fire or annihilation that just gets in the way.
Answered above.
And yes God is just until he uses infinite punishment to deal with finite crimes.

Which infinite punishment does your FAITH teach? Which one does your loving, merciful, just god dole out?
What?
Do you know what just/justice means?
If you do, why post the above which seems to me to indicate that you do NOT know what justice is.

(as the reformed do not, of course, or they wouldn't be reformed).
But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it (meant that evil) unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive. (Gen_50:20)

Evil has a purpose. Without it we wouldn't know what good is and you can't become the perfect man without the knowledge of both good and evil.
Actually this is true and accepted by both philosophy and theology.

BUT
It doesn't mean that God created evil....

And, of course, as Romans 8:28 states, God can take any situation that is bad and make it work for the good.
Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom (both good and evil); that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: (Col_1:28)
You're not correctly interpreting Colossians 1:28, but that would have to be a different discussion...

Colossians 1:28
25Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God,
26that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints,
27to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
28We proclaim Him, admonishing every man and teaching every man with all wisdom, so that we may present every man complete in Christ.
29For this purpose also I labor, striving according to His power, which mightily works within me.


Where in the above is it mentioned that both good and evil is being taught?
I read that Paul is teaching the mystery that has been hid from the beginning....
That also gentiles are called to salvation in Christ...
Paul is speaking to gentiles and giving them the GOOD NEWS.
Was this evil for good?

For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. (Act 4:27-28)

Peace.
Well, it really is intellectually dishonest for bring up the crucifixion....
It is common Christian belief that God KNEW Adam would sin (did NOT CAUSE it)
And so God, being loving and just, made for us a solution to the problem Adam, the federal head of humanity,
created for us.
 

GodsGrace

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It means that salvation is in something other than God alone. I see that as a problem.

[
It does NOT mean that!

You don't seem to want to understand that The faith includes faith.

There is no conflict -
I think this will be my last reply regarding this.
 

GodsGrace

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Right. That's the point of this topic. How do we define the term "the faith" in Jude 1:3 ???
You've done a good job of researching this, thanks.

[
Ummm.
You've just changed the point of this topic.
Now you say it's the definition of the term the faith.

You mentioned to me that it's because the two terms have totally different meanings.

I think the end is near.
(I don't mean the end of the world).
 

GodsGrace

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Defined as: the practice of the Christian religion = The Faith
Let's drop that into the Jude 1:3 verse text to see if it works.

..., I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for
the practice of the Christian religion that was once for all
entrusted to the saints.


Does that work for you?

[
yes it does.
We have a CHRISTIAN RELIGION that INCLUDES personal belief in Jesus as Lord and Savior.

That Christian religion includes other necessities:
PRAYER
MIRACLES --- BELIEF IN
OBEDIENCE TO JESUS
FOLLOWING THE 10 COMMANDMENTS
FELLOWSHIPPING - GATHERING AS BELIEVERS
LITURGICAL CELEBRATIONS
COMMUNION - REMEMBERING JESUS IN A SPECIAL WAY
BURIAL CEREMONIES
TEACHING OUR CHILDREN OUR FAITH - or the faith.

There's more but that should suffice.
The above DOES NOT EXCLUDE belief in Jesus in a personal way.
 
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J

Johann

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yes it does.
We have a CHRISTIAN RELIGION that INCLUDES personal belief in Jesus as Lord and Savior.

That Christian religion includes other necessities:
PRAYER
MIRACLES --- BELIEF IN
OBEDIENCE TO JESUS
FOLLOWING THE 10 COMMANDMENTS
FELLOWSHIPPING - GATHERING AS BELIEVERS
LITURGICAL CELEBRATIONS
COMMUNION - REMEMBERING JESUS IN A SPECIAL WAY
BURIAL CEREMONIES
TEACHING OUR CHILDREN OUR FAITH - or the faith.

There's more but that should suffice.
The above DOES NOT EXCLUDE belief in Jesus in a personal way.
Lol!
Not to sound stupid-since I am stupid, which church are you affiliated with?
 

GodsGrace

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Lol!
Not to sound stupid-since I am stupid, which church are you affiliated with?
Right now I'm affiliated with the CC.
That doesn't mean I'm Catholic.
Have been Protestant for about 40 years.
That doesn't mean I'm protestant.
YOU figure it out !
LOL
 
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