The absurdity of Pretrib logic

[WPM]

You might want you read a little closer. They all entered in the selfsame day. That is one day. That day is the day that God told him to enter.

Genesis 7
13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

Genesis 7
9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

You are making comparisons between Noah's day and the day that Jesus comes that Jesus Himself didn't make, in order to support Pretrib.

Firstly, God did not shut Noah and his family up in safety in the ark for 7 days as you argue. God gave Noah 7 days’ notice – allowing him to fill the ark with his family and the animals, saying, "For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth" (Genesis 7:4).

Moses got 7 days notice before the rain came. In that time, he was directed to gather the animals into the ark two by two of all flesh, male and female (Genesis 6:19). He was also instructed to gather food for his family and the animals (Genesis 6:20). That gathering took one week. These 7 days would have given Noah and his family sufficient time to board all these animals unto the ark and gather sufficient food. When that was complete, God closed the door of the ark and the flood immediately came and destroyed all the wicked. Jesus confirms, “the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all” (Luke 17:27).

Whilst all the wicked were swept away in this flood when the ark closed, the rain continued pouring down for 40 days. What is more, the water remained on the earth 150 days in total until the ark rested on Ararat.

 

[WPM]

You might want you read a little closer. They all entered in the selfsame day. That is one day. That day is the day that God told him to enter.

Genesis 7
13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

Genesis 7
9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

Jesus said in Luke 17:26-30, “as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”

You seem to have a major issue with taking the Bible literally. You're making Christ out to be a liar.

Where did Jesus say that Noah being seven days in the ark (which did not even happen) represents seven days of tribulation at the end? Nowhere! Is there anywhere that says it was seven days of tribulation for the wicked outside the ark before the flood? This exposes your faulty hermeneutics. This is where your forced type falls apart. This is theological gerrymandering.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

When you were going to grade school, and the teacher asked you... "what does 2 + 2 = ". And you responded with "5". Did your teacher say - "You are being deceptive. You lie ! You are a liar ! " ?

No, your teacher did not respond that way. So stop with that sort of hateful language, whenever someone in the forum disagrees with what you think is correct. If you continue with that sort of language, I am going to start reporting you from now on, whenever I see you do that in a post.

I suggest everyone else in the forum do the same. This forum needs to be cleaned up.

Douggg, you are very deceptive and dishonest with your handling of scripture. That is a fact. Such as the way you try to create your own definition of the word "generation" to make Matthew 24:34 say what you want it to say. And, in this example that you're responding to you, you dishonestly claim that Jesus said He would take us to heaven when He comes back which He never said. You just don't like it when your lies get called out. I will not stop calling out your dishonest treatment of scripture. Your dishonesty is what needs to be cleaned up.

Jesus will be in heaven, while the great tribulation takes place here on earth. So when Jesus comes for the rapture/resurrection event, it is to take believers, those who believe so, to heaven while the great tribulation takes place.

That is your opinion, but it does not specifically say that. He said where He is will we be, also. He will be "in the air" when we meet Him, not in heaven. It does not say He then turns around and brings us back to heaven with Him after that. If that was the case, why wouldn't we just meet Him in heaven? You have no answer for that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

One single passage.?
I got several.
Here is one, matt24:
"38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come

Before the flood/ trib, everyday life. Normal life.
Jesus comes at the start of the flood
One taken/ one left..at the start (AHEM JESUS'S setting is BEFORE the flood)
WATCH BEFORE THE FLOOD

ALL PRETRIB.
VIVIDLY PRETRIB.
Half the church taken pretrib.
Thank you Jesus!!!!!!!!!!

This is utter nonsense. Jesus specifically pointed out that the flood "destroyed them all". It killed all unbelievers. And Jesus said it would be like that when He comes (Matt 24:39). So, do you have all unbelievers being killed when He comes just as happened with the flood?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Amils need their own thread

They are unreachable.
I may as well talk to a telephone pole as try to address them.

LOL. This thread is about refuting pretrib which we have done extensively. We will not be leaving the thread that we created. LOL!

 

[Douggg]

Douggg, you are very deceptive and dishonest with your handling of scripture. That is a fact. Such as the way you try to create your own definition of the word "generation" to make Matthew 24:34 say what you want it to say. And, in this example that you're responding to you, you dishonestly claim that Jesus said He would take us to heaven when He comes back which He never said. You just don't like it when your lies get called out. I will not stop calling out your dishonest treatment of scripture. Your dishonesty is what needs to be cleaned up.

Do you realize there is a difference in "dishonest" and "incorrect" ?

When you gave your teacher an incorrect answer to 2 + 2, did she say that you were dishonest ?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Do you realize there is a difference in "dishonest" and "incorrect" ?

Yes. And you are dishonest. Even after being shown that there is no such definition for the word "generation" that you use to apply to "this generation" in Matthew 24:34 (the human life span), you still insist on using your own made up definition for the word. If that isn't dishonest, I don't know what is. Also, to claim that Jesus specifically said He would take us to heaven when He comes despite the fact that He never specifically said that is also dishonest. You can have that opinion if you want, but it's dishonest to claim He specifically said that the way you do.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Where does it say that Church is in heaven for the marriage supper? Please quote actual Scripture.

Just pretend it is when you want it to be.
No Scripture has ever helped you out if error.
Maybe ask someone that will wast time pointing it out to you.
It is a wast of time.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Amil logic.
Do you amils ever get together to test your doctrine and try to build on your amil beliefs, or do you ever take a break from the obsession of despising the rapture and those waiting for Jesus?

It appears you guys don't have much traction in your own beliefs based on Satan being chained currently, so instead of fishing, you get in your boats and try to disrupt those with purpose of actually catching fish.

The time investments of you guys, in trying to muddy up the Bible teaching of the pretrib rapture, is amazing.
Not much about your own "doctrine", just obsessed with hating on those that challenge your false misrepresentation and warped beliefs of God's word.
That's what we challenge, as there is very little of your doctrine laid out.

 

[Douggg]

Yes.

When you gave your teacher an incorrect answer to 2 + 2, did she say that you were dishonest ?

 

[IndianaRob]

Amil logic.
Do you amils ever get together to test your doctrine and try to build on your amil beliefs, or do you ever take a break from the obsession of despising the rapture and those waiting for Jesus?

It appears you guys don't have much traction in your own beliefs based on Satan being chained currently, so instead of fishing, you get in your boats and try to disrupt those with purpose of actually catching fish.

The time investments of you guys, in trying to muddy up the Bible teaching of the pretrib rapture, is amazing.
Not much about your own "doctrine", just obsessed with hating on those that challenge your false misrepresentation and warped beliefs of God's word.
That's what we challenge, as there is very little of your doctrine laid out.

I completely agree with you, they do exactly the same things to scripture that futurists do.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

When you gave your teacher an incorrect answer to 2 + 2, did she say that you were dishonest ?

This is not a relevant comparison to you purposely making up new definitions for words to make scripture say what you want it to say and you changing the words of Jesus to make them say what you want them to say.

 

[MA2444]

This is not a relevant comparison to you purposely making up new definitions for words to make scripture say what you want it to say and you changing the words of Jesus to make them say what you want them to say.

Wah. I thought it was revelant, lol.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Amil logic.
Do you amils ever get together to test your doctrine and try to build on your amil beliefs, or do you ever take a break from the obsession of despising the rapture and those waiting for Jesus?

It appears you guys don't have much traction in your own beliefs based on Satan being chained currently, so instead of fishing, you get in your boats and try to disrupt those with purpose of actually catching fish.

The time investments of you guys, in trying to muddy up the Bible teaching of the pretrib rapture, is amazing.
Not much about your own "doctrine", just obsessed with hating on those that challenge your false misrepresentation and warped beliefs of God's word.
That's what we challenge, as there is very little of your doctrine laid out.

You have to be kidding us here. We are the ones who thoroughly exegete scripture and show exactly how we interpret it and why. Read the first few posts in this thread where WPM laid out the amil doctrine thoroughly. Your claim that "there is very little of your doctrine laid out" is ridiculous.

You never exegete any scripture. You just make claims about it and do NOTHING to support your claims.

You somehow think saying things like this proves something:

One single passage.?
I got several.
Here is one, matt24:
"38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come
Before the flood/ trib, everyday life. Normal life.
Jesus comes at the start of the flood
One taken/ one left..at the start (AHEM JESUS'S setting is BEFORE the flood)
WATCH BEFORE THE FLOOD
ALL PRETRIB.
VIVIDLY PRETRIB.
Half the church taken pretrib.

Who can even tell what you were intending to say here? This is not exegesis. I don't even know what this is. Jesus said all unbelievers in the flood were killed and then said it will be like that when He comes. You say NOTHING about that. Why? In no way, shape or form does Matthew 24:38-42 support pretrib.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Wah. I thought it was revelant, lol.

Of course you would think that. There's no difference between being mistaken about something and purposely making up his own definition for the word generation to make Matthew 24:34 say what he wants it to say?

 

[WPM]

Just pretend it is when you want it to be.
No Scripture has ever helped you out if error.
Maybe ask someone that will wast time pointing it out to you.
It is a wast of time.

Again, you cannot support any of your Pretrib claims with hard Scripture. All you have is your mistaken Pretrib talking points you have been taught. That is because it is not in the Bible.

 

[WPM]

I completely agree with you, they do exactly the same things to scripture that futurists do.

Really? Where is your proof?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I completely agree with you, they do exactly the same things to scripture that futurists do.

Give one or two examples of what you're talking about.

 

[WPM]

Amil logic.
Do you amils ever get together to test your doctrine and try to build on your amil beliefs, or do you ever take a break from the obsession of despising the rapture and those waiting for Jesus?

It appears you guys don't have much traction in your own beliefs based on Satan being chained currently, so instead of fishing, you get in your boats and try to disrupt those with purpose of actually catching fish.

The time investments of you guys, in trying to muddy up the Bible teaching of the pretrib rapture, is amazing.
Not much about your own "doctrine", just obsessed with hating on those that challenge your false misrepresentation and warped beliefs of God's word.
That's what we challenge, as there is very little of your doctrine laid out.

No, we are not obsessed with "despising the rapture and those waiting for Jesus." You know, we believe in that. So, that is more lies. We reject the Pretrib fallacy. It is not in the Bible, it is a delusion. Your failure to provide one single Scripture that teaches it, like your Pretrib colleagues, proves our thesis!

All you have is name-calling, insults and avoidance.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jesus said in Luke 17:26-30, “as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”

You seem to have a major issue with taking the Bible literally. You're making Christ out to be a liar.

Where did Jesus say that Noah being seven days in the ark (which did not even happen) represents seven days of tribulation at the end? Nowhere! Is there anywhere that says it was seven days of tribulation for the wicked outside the ark before the flood? This exposes your faulty hermeneutics. This is where your forced type falls apart. This is theological gerrymandering.

Completely agree. And, how convenient of him to not compare what happened with Lot to what will happen when Christ comes as Jesus Himself did. Jesus very clearly indicated that "the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all". And then He said "even the thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed" which implies that the same day that the church is taken off of the earth, Jesus will destroy all of His enemies. Which is exactly what Paul taught in passages like 1 Thess 4:14-5:3 and 2 Thess 1:7-10 as well.

It's truly unbelievable that pretribs would try to use Matthew 24:37-42 and Luke 17:26-27 to support pretrib when they clearly support post-trib and amil instead. Pretribs get the wrath of God that will come down on the day Christ returns mixed up with a 7 year period of tribulation. Nowhere did Jesus teach anything about a time of tribulation occurring after His coming. Surely, the comparisons what happened with the flood and in Sodom where all unbelievers were destroyed cannot be compared to some time period of tribulation before Christ's return.